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Topic: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Topic: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

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TMD10
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What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/26/2012 7:28:42 PM

To me, with the current format, it spells disaster to any non-BCS team. Would a Boise State or TCU have ever made these playoffs? I can't imagine so. With four teams going, it's going to be two SEC teams, one Big Ten or PAC 12 team and one Big 12 team, year in and year out. The whole thing seems like the worst money grab and moves the MAC into second tier in its own division.

http://themacdaily.com/?p=978

Pataskala
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/26/2012 9:48:08 PM

Let's face it, college football among the AQ schools is all about money. No matter what, non-AQ (or big 5 conferences) schools have always been and will always be sucking hind t*t when it comes football money. The rich always find a way to get richer because they are the rich. They have the power.

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Jeff McKinney
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/26/2012 10:31:43 PM

This is the last straw. the BCS schools are consolidating their dominance. Future might call for a new division comprised of non BCS leagues and top FCS leagues.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/26/2012 11:24:59 PM

They let Boise State and TCU into the bombshelter before they sealed the door shut forever.

oubobcatjohn
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 1:44:17 AM

The only way for a MAC school to bust the BCS is play a lineup of power house teams non-conference and run the table. Play a Big Ten team, a Big 12 team, a ACC team and an SEC team all on road and walk away 4-0 non-conference. You do that and go 13-0 including the MAC title and you got a case to be ranked in top 4 in the country. It takes a while for a team like Boise State to build its program where you are ready to climb that mountain. We aren't there yet. We first need to win the MAC title. That is step one. We need that.....then we need to blitz the MAC like Boise State did the WAC year in an year out. Then we will be ready for a monster non-conference schedule. Right now we are among the top 3-4 programs in the MAC. We need to be undisputed top program in the MAC. Like Boise became in the WAC. Hope we are rolling up 50 a game on the MAC and making people say wow. That team is dominating. Hard to dominate a balanced conference like the MAC because no team has a huge recruiting advantage. The better coached teams execute on gameday and that is the difference between first and last in the MAC. Not a huge talent difference. That is why you see top MAC teams get beat by bad MAC teams. Because its about who comes to play that day. The better teams are more consistent and that has been Ohio's strength. We are very consistent week to week.

mf279801
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 8:00:42 AM

Brian Smith wrote:

They let Boise State and TCU into the bombshelter before they sealed the door shut forever.

HAHAHAHA, Boise State is in (maybe) the Big East. The big east isn't in the bomb shelter. Its more like the garden planted on top of the bomb shelter and used as an aiming point.

Bobcatbob
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 8:17:55 AM

I don't really understand the finality of the doom and gloom here. Realistically, a MAC team's chances of seeing a BCS/Championship game just went to zero from, well, zero.

If anyone should be "upset" it's the committees that run the "big time" bowls that aren't in the annual three game series - whoever they are. Their product has been significantly devalued.

Piney
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 8:44:03 AM

You guys are missing the big picture element of this. While this may not seem to do anything for the MAC, it does a few things for the current, but impacts the future more.

First things first it means MORE MONEY!!! Yes the MAC gets a super small slice, but a super small slice of a MUCH bigger pie probably means a few more million for the conference. Also a side effect is those big money games just means bigger money. If the big conference teams are getting $5 million more, guess what, those game payouts for going to their stadium just got more expensive. What's the current payout for a game like Penn State? about $1 million? Well, now those teams are getting more money we can push it past $1.5 million or maybe more.

Another thing is it is MORE access. 4 is more than 2 and there is a rumor that the selection committees might also select teams for the bigger bowls. So maybe.... just maybe if a MAC team does really well and get ranked in the #8-#12 area we can get selected for a bigger bowl. I know... alot of IFs and probably never will happen, but you are saying there is a chance.

Now the bigger picture, bracket creep WILL happen. After this 12 year deal is over 4 teams will become 8. Worst case is more access to bigger bowls best case is an undefeated MAC team that played at least one power team in non-conference and beat them might/should get into a 8 team playoff. Or worst case wait til the 12 year deal for the 8 team playoff is over to get a guarenteed conference champion in the newly minted 16 team playoff. So maybe in 24 years we have a chance

But in the end the scenario for a MAC team to make the playoff is the same, go undefeated and hope that big money game you play is against a great team and you beat them, and the other non-conference games be somewhat decent. In addition the extra $250k-$500k Ohio will see from this deal annually could go to hire better coaches and/or go to pay our basketball coach

"If someone told me 20 years ago in my James Hall Dorm room that I would be the commencement speaker I would have told them to get out of here and make sure you put that towell back under the door"

- Matt Lauer '97 Commencement Speech

Mike Coleman
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 8:44:26 AM

The MAC isn't the loser here. You can't lose something you never had. I think the Big East and ACC might be the losers eventually if schools like FSU find their way into another conference. We'll have to see how all these bowl affiliations line up.

If the Big East and ACC drop a notch behind the four power conferences and you take all the automatic qualifier junk out of it, then a MAC or CUSA school can actually recruit against a Big East team better.

Last Edited: 6/27/2012 8:48:27 AM by Mike Coleman

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 9:53:32 AM

Mike Coleman wrote:

I agree. This has virtually no effect on the MAC. Some people mention long-term effect, but I don't think it changes the long-term outlook from what it was before a playoff.

Bobcat Love
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 10:14:44 AM

I'm telling you, until the former Non-AQ's stand up for themselves, they'll keep getting crapped on.

I'll say it for the 300th time - stop playing non conference games against the AQ's and see what happens. It is the only way to force their hand.

It's more evident then ever. For example - Ohio State wants to play 4 EASY HOME games to start the season. They need the gameday revenue, but now more importantly - they need the wins to set themselves up for the end of the year. Take out the ability to schedule the Non AQ's and they are left with 2 options:

1. Play 4 FCS schools, which their fans and the National Media won't take kindly to.
2. Play 4 AQ schools (There's only about 64 AQ's to choose from now), each of which will certainly demand a return home game in a 1 for 1 scenario. You're talking 2 home games, and 2 road games each year.

The most likely is Option 2, in which case they give up gameday revenue in Columbus and expose themselves to potential early season losses which will knock them out of contention in this dumb new playoff system. The bow tie would be beside himself.

We have power people, it's just a matter of how to use it. I'm sure the NIU President was really effective in the meetings. When Delaney told him to shut his mouth and know his role, I'm guessing he went without a whimper.

Piney
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 11:02:44 AM

Bobcat Love wrote:

You are partially correct, the Non AQ's do need to stand up for themselves. One reason I love Thompson of the MWC. He has been really the lone voice of the Non AQ conferences.

But the problem is the big conferences (remember, no more AQ status... LOL) have the major trump card of being able to take their ball and go home (ie leave the NCAA and/or creating a higher division). AND they control the purse strings. They basically give the smaller conferences hush money by carving out some money from the BCS/playoff and giving it to them.

The idea of smaller conferences stop playing bigger conference schools are nice, it is basically cutting off your nose to spite your face. All it would take would be one rogue team and/or conference to break from the company line to break from the embargoo, and the big conference teams will find that tipping point. $2 million? $3 million for a money game? Then all of the sudden all Sun Belt teams will play 4 impossible non-conference games and get a $10-$12 million dollar pay day.

As Judge Smails put it... The world needs ditch diggers too. And that is what the small conferences basically are. Now and then you can pull yourself up (Boise, TCU, Utah) but it takes effort and luck.

And as for the big schools wanting 4 easy non-conference games... it will be interesting to see how that works out. If the selection committee actually holds these teams accountable for scheduling 4 cupcakes, then it will change. And that could be a bad thing for the small conferences, because that means less money games and that impacts the smaller schools budgets directly. And then you have the movement of these big conferences moving to more conference games and then the PAC12/Big10 scheduling agreement.

And thinking of it more, if the smaller conferences decide not to play bigger conference schools it would just force these big conferences to play more conference games, which they kinda want. And would solve the problem for them expanding to 16 teams in a conference if they then decide to have 10 conference games.

Last Edited: 6/27/2012 11:04:08 AM by Piney

"If someone told me 20 years ago in my James Hall Dorm room that I would be the commencement speaker I would have told them to get out of here and make sure you put that towell back under the door"

- Matt Lauer '97 Commencement Speech

L.C.
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 11:30:25 AM

I tend to think that allowing 4 teams in doubles the chance of a non-AQ team of getting into the playoff from what we have now, but I'm going to wait and see how it works out in practice. As Yogi Berra said, "In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

As far as non-AQ schools refusing to play AQ schools, I don't think the AQ schools would mind at all. As Piney pointed out, they'd just play more games against other AQ schools, and also more against FCS schools. The result would be them keeping a larger share of the pie. Non-AQ schools would lose a rich payday, and have budget problems, plus they would become increasingly irrelevant.

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DayvidGallagher
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 11:46:22 AM

Quick critique, no offense Piney but you make way too many assumptions.

Piney wrote:

First things first it means MORE MONEY!!! Yes the MAC gets a super small slice, but a super small slice of a MUCH bigger pie probably means a few more million for the conference. Also a side effect is those big money games just means bigger money. If the big conference teams are getting $5 million more, guess what, those game payouts for going to their stadium just got more expensive. What's the current payout for a game like Penn State? about $1 million? Well, now those teams are getting more money we can push it past $1.5 million or maybe more.

Price is not dependent on what someone is able to pay it is based on what someone is willing to pay. And if there are teams that will take 1 mil then they will be paying 1 mil. Just because they have more money doesn't mean they will pay more. Do people go in and demand to pay $10 a gallon for gas because they just got a raise at work?

Piney wrote:

Another thing is it is MORE access. 4 is more than 2 and there is a rumor that the selection committees might also select teams for the bigger bowls. So maybe.... just maybe if a MAC team does really well and get ranked in the #8-#12 area we can get selected for a bigger bowl. I know... alot of IFs and probably never will happen, but you are saying there is a chance.

Now the bigger picture, bracket creep WILL happen. After this 12 year deal is over 4 teams will become 8. Worst case is more access to bigger bowls best case is an undefeated MAC team that played at least one power team in non-conference and beat them might/should get into a 8 team playoff. Or worst case wait til the 12 year deal for the 8 team playoff is over to get a guarenteed conference champion in the newly minted 16 team playoff. So maybe in 24 years we have a chance

This is true but ur missing a key point - when they add to the top, the as you call them "bigger bowls" will be less significant. It's like being excited when the Iphone 5 comes out because now you will have better access to a iphone 4 which is the cool thing right now. In your dream scenario our only hope is a 16 team playoff. With the exception of being the only route to a 1 year national championship that would be terrible for us. If a playoff ever got that big, it would be like March Madness and the NIT. No body cares about the NIT and it barely gets any TV time. If we missed the 16 teams our post season would be totally irrelevant. In the current system at least we get 2.5 million viewers or whatever, and we don't have to go undefeated to get it.

Piney wrote:

But in the end the scenario for a MAC team to make the playoff is the same, go undefeated and hope that big money game you play is against a great team and you beat them, and the other non-conference games be somewhat decent. In addition the extra $250k-$500k Ohio will see from this deal annually could go to hire better coaches and/or go to pay our basketball coach

No, in the end the scenario is identical for everything. To get into a 4 team playoff (And thus access to a NC) a MAC team will need to go undefeated several years in a row. To get into a nationally meaningful bowl, a MAC team would have to be undefeated. To get into the Joe the Plummer bowl, a MAC team needs to win their division.

What is really the stupid logic in all this, is that this is not going to make people feel better about who gets a shot at a title. Using last years teams - sure OK state wont feel jipped out of a shot at the NC in the new system, but now Oregon is just gunna be pissed they didn't get the the 4 spot over Stanford (Who they beat! On the road!). All adding a playoff is going to do is move the "I Feel Screwed Bar" down until it at some point gets down to a team that the nation can just ignore. Again just look at basketball and "the bubble", they let in a few more teams, and this year instead of big conference teams like Virginia Tech getting left out, the story is about Drexel. Who cares if Drexel doesn't get in? No one thats who, and thats just what a tournament committee wants. Less criticism, more viewers.

“The thing that gets lost in the deal is we’re Ohio University. We’re Ohio. We liked to be referred to as Ohio. That’s who we are." - John Groce

C Money
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 12:27:38 PM

You wanna get nuts? Let's get nuts.

1. Eliminate the idea of a "national champion" each year.
2. Instead, you're the champion until someone beats you, like boxing.
3. Rank every team, 1 through 125. If you beat a higher ranked team, you get to claim their ranking.
4. Scheduling is done by challenge. For any challenge accepted, the game must be played within 3 weeks. The challenger is always the road team.
5. You don't have to accept a challenge, unless the challenging team is within 5 rankings of you, and even then only if you don't have another game scheduled within the 3 week window.
6. Challenge games can be played any time during the year, except Bowl Season, which runs from December 1 through January 1.
7. During Bowl Season, games are arranged like they are now--based on conference affiliation, TV networks, etc.
8. Conferences can force conference games, but no more than 9 per year.
9. No team can play be forced to play more than 15 games per year.

Piney
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 1:15:23 PM

DayvidGallagher wrote:

Quick critique, no offense Piney but you make way too many assumptions.

But assumptions makes the world go around. And no offense taken... as long as you don't take offense to my reply

Piney wrote:

DayvidGallagher wrote:

That is true... probably my biggest assumption. But, the more money they have, the more they like to spend it. So maybe it can go up 100-250k, but at least the money will be there to ask for.

Piney wrote:

DayvidGallagher wrote:

Ahhhhh, but those bigger bowls are falling under the playoff umbrella. 6 Bowls will rotate to get the semi-final games. But playing in those 4 bowls that aren't hosting the semi-final means a slice of that playoff money. Just like how playing in a BCS bowl meant around $20 million for the likes of Boise St. But I don't know about you, but if Ohio gets to play in the Orange or Cotton Bowl... that would be sweet. Who cares if it isn't in the playoff.

And to expound on something, read a chat on ESPN that they believe the selection committee will in fact put the teams in those 4 bowls. And from what he said they will try to reward 'good' small conference champions over placing a 2nd/3rd place big conference team. ie If Ohio goes undefeated but only is ranked #8, they would make sure we go to one of these Bowl Games.

Piney wrote:

DayvidGallagher wrote:

Well, the Oregon v Stanford is why they are going with a selection committee. 10 out of 10 times they would put Oregon in over Stanford. They will basically interject common sense you would hope. And yep... now the #5-8 teams will be pissed instead of the #3 or #4 team. But at least it is progress.

But you are right, the end scenario is basically the same thing but with maybe more money and the hope 24+ years from now we will have a 16 team playoff with the MAC champion getting an auto-invite to be the #15 or #16 seed.

The recipe to change your station is there... you have to have a culture of winning go a couple of seasons in a row of only losing 0-1 games and playing a bigtime opponent and beating them. Which I hope starts this year when we go into Happy Valley and piss in their cheerios and beat them like they deserve.

"If someone told me 20 years ago in my James Hall Dorm room that I would be the commencement speaker I would have told them to get out of here and make sure you put that towell back under the door"

- Matt Lauer '97 Commencement Speech

The Optimist
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 3:23:48 PM

We just need to schedule murderers row now, then go undefeated. I'm not too concerned with the national issues until going undefeated is talked about like 20 win seasons in basketball.

I've seen crazier things happen.

JSF
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 10:54:38 PM

This deepens my reservations about our commitment to this sport.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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Mike Coleman
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 10:57:59 PM

JSF wrote:

This deepens my reservations about our commitment to this sport.

Why? What does this change from the past, say, 50 years?

Mike Coleman
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/27/2012 11:03:46 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

Bobcat Love hits on a key point. But to take it even further, we need to question why some conferences have the power when it comes to scheduling. Doesn't it sound ridiculous to say the Yankees could schedule 40 home games with the Royals if they wanted? Oh, and then the Red Sox are left to schedule better teams. Or maybe the Steelers could play three home games with the Bengals and Browns every season without any return games? Ridiculous. Yet that is what the brainless settle for every year in college football. The thing won't be halfway credible until an independent, nonpartisan body takes control of scheduling. Haha. Not waiting for that to happen.

Last Edited: 6/27/2012 11:05:00 PM by Mike Coleman

L.C.
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/28/2012 12:02:21 AM

Pro sports would be the same situation, except that they concluded a long time ago that some form of parity would be good for all the teams, so they instituted rules to accomplish that, including some revenue sharing, as well as salary caps. The only rule that has been enacted with the aim of more parity in college football is the scholarship limit. You can't have a system where one team has 70m a year in revenue and another has 5m, and expect parity. Since I don't see any uprising calling for a change to that, the disparity is likely to continue.

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D.A.
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/28/2012 2:42:37 PM

Mike Coleman wrote:

JSF wrote:

This deepens my reservations about our commitment to this sport.

Why? What does this change from the past, say, 50 years?

I agree with Mike. Today, with the modern bowl structure we have 0% chance of "playing" for the national championship due to the current bowl assignments and the MAC bowl tie ins. However we could be considered, albeit with a 0% chance, for the National Championship in the final polls. (if you aren't in the BCS title game, you aren't going to be the national champion)

Under the new program, if a MAC team goes 13-0, at least the committee has an opportunity to choose a MAC team to play in the playoff, which is the only way you could be considered for the title in the current or the future scenario anyway.

Then it just boils down to if you prefer hoops (and the prevailing sentiment of a National Title being the Holy Grail and "everyone gets to play for the title" mindset) or FB and your perception of the ROI for the two sports. And most of us here will never agree on that topic.

Seemingly, through all the conference swapping the last few years, colleges and their AD's believe that FB drives the bus, as most of the power conference moves have been made in order to maximize revenues from the FB TV packages and exposure, and not hoops. (although there have been some purely BB driven decisions in the mid majors) Not to say that FB is better than hoops, but those in the "power conferences" regularly come down on the side of FB when they are deciding with what conference they will align, and they are the ones getting paid to make those decisions.

In all practicality, I think this is a non event for the MAC, however it may slightly improve our ability to recruit against anyone not in the Big Tenleven, PAC12, SEC and Big Twelnineten, since the remaining conferences are no longer AQ and no longer have a straight line to the playoff.

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And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

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JSF
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/28/2012 3:54:46 PM

The point is, the perception that there is a chasm between the "big leagues" and us continues to grow. Do we really want to throw a lot of money at what is considered a minor league program?

D.A.
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/28/2012 4:17:21 PM

^ Point taken.

However, haven't the national statistics shown that OHIO FB and hoops have been close to if not completely self-sustaining in the last year or so? And if they are both self sustaining, then should there be any concern?

And can't much the same concern be expressed for most of the schools in one bid conferences for the NCAA hoops tourney, and isn't the same issue in place regarding the largest program's dollars spent on facilities/staff/etc at the largest conferences versus budgets at one bid leagues such as the MAC? (easily a 4-5:1 ratio of the large conferences versus the best of mids) And the probability of a Mid or lower winning its way to the final four in hoops is likely similar to those of a non-AQ getting the wild card slot in the FB final four? (looks to the resident statistics experts, although there is no forward looking statistic for the new FB format)

Albeit a much smaller out of pocket in support of hoops, we get exponentially greater national exposure from regular season FB than we do from basketball, and only get widespread national exposure in basketball if we make the big tournament or our during our rare appearance on ESPN family.

The discussion goes quickly into the Morass of Hays and debate on whether the institution should be in any athletic pursuits at all.

Last Edited: 6/28/2012 4:18:25 PM by D.A.

TWT
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RE: What does a football playoff mean to the MAC?

Posted: 6/28/2012 6:23:13 PM

The extra money and access is nice from this new playoff but I don't think it changes the game in recruiting. Ohio will probably always be the same in that department. If anything it makes securing a spot in FBS all the more appealing and should give the MAC more leverage in membership issues. The gap between being an FCS football member and a small conference FBS team just got wider. The MAC of 20 years ago did not have any access, revenue sharing, or TV exposure to speak of at all.

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