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Author Message Ohio69 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 3,062 Status: Offline     Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/6/2012 4:25:30 PM  http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8240385/penn-state-nittany-lions-trustees-file-appeal-federal-lawsuit-denial Not sure how only a few board members can do this.  Seems to me a better shot would have been for a player to sue and say NCAA didn't follow its own rules. Looks like the drama continues. Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?..... Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 7,452 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/6/2012 5:50:04 PM  The school signed an agreement for their punishments. They knew what they were getting into. This whole situation is just like the little kid crying over spilled milk. You screwed up, deal with the consequences. I'm not saying the punishments were fair or too harsh or anything, I'm just saying you knew something bad was going to go down and now you're mad because of the penalties? Keep better control of your school and you can avoid a massive cover up like this one. Back to Top BurninateTheMAC General User Member Since: 3/1/2006 Post Count: 10 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/6/2012 8:53:40 PM  GoCats105 wrote: The school signed an agreement for their punishments. They knew what they were getting into. This whole situation is just like the little kid crying over spilled milk. You screwed up, deal with the consequences. I'm not saying the punishments were fair or too harsh or anything, I'm just saying you knew something bad was going to go down and now you're mad because of the penalties? Keep better control of your school and you can avoid a massive cover up like this one. Basically, they're idiots. They would have to show that their president lacked authority to do what he did, at which case the NCAA has the option to revisit penalties since their agreement with the school was successfully voided. See ya in 2014 or later. Let's hope the Ohio game happens first.  "I said consummate V's! Consummate!" Back to Top 85TD85 General User Member Since: 7/28/2012 Post Count: 19 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/7/2012 11:58:55 AM  Sad statement about Penn State overall. This is the same reason Sandusky was allowed to continue his disgusting acts!! No ONE person should be able to make ANY decision for Penn State. No checks and balances will kill Penn States program. Will they ever learn!!? Back to Top Pataskala General User Member Since: 7/8/2010 Location: At least six feet away from anybody else Post Count: 9,365 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/7/2012 9:31:06 PM  BurninateTheMAC wrote: GoCats105 wrote: The school signed an agreement for their punishments. They knew what they were getting into. This whole situation is just like the little kid crying over spilled milk. You screwed up, deal with the consequences. I'm not saying the punishments were fair or too harsh or anything, I'm just saying you knew something bad was going to go down and now you're mad because of the penalties? Keep better control of your school and you can avoid a massive cover up like this one. Basically, they're idiots. They would have to show that their president lacked authority to do what he did, at which case the NCAA has the option to revisit penalties since their agreement with the school was successfully voided. See ya in 2014 or later. Let's hope the Ohio game happens first.  They probably would have a good argument unless they've allowed the prez to do something of a similar magnitude (e.g., sign off on a civil suit settlement) without full board approval or unless something like this falls under a specific authority granted the prez under state law or his contract.  I don't think this will jeopardize this season.  If they get a restraining order as a result of the sanctions that have already been levied, they have an even better shot at a restraining order if the NCAA tries anything further without going through the full investigative process. We will get by. We will get by. We will get by. We will survive. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,498 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/7/2012 11:24:31 PM  Pataskala wrote: ...They probably would have a good argument unless they've allowed the prez to do something of a similar magnitude (e.g., sign off on a civil suit settlement) without full board approval or unless something like this falls under a specific authority granted the prez under state law or his contract.  I don't think this will jeopardize this season.  If they get a restraining order as a result of the sanctions that have already been levied, they have an even better shot at a restraining order if the NCAA tries anything further without going through the full investigative process. They might have an argument that the President exceeded his authority, but that would have nothing to do with whether or not the NCAA did. As I posted on another thread, if they manage to get the President's agreement nullified, I would expect that the NCAA will just remove the punishment that was agreed to, and impose the death penalty instead, and I don't think there is any question that they can do that.  It will be interesting to watch. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 12:21:38 AM  Sometimes it's good to recognize when something is done and not capable of being changed.  Just move on. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,598 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 7:23:21 AM  My wife and I were in Allentown Pa. last weekend. The area is full of PSU fans and we saw a lot of people with PSU gear on. We talked to a bunch of PSU fans about the OUr game in particular and PSU in general. With the exception of a couple of people,the PSU fans we talked to  didn't like,but  understood that there had to be some sanctions. What they were most upset about  was the vacating of the PSU's wins,particularly  how much it hurts the players who did nothing wrong and now,from a football standpoint, don't exist. They said it was obvious that this was only done to get at Paterno's record as winningist coach.  Several people said the same thing that's been said here "If this involved the history department,would you void everyone's history degree ?" Back to Top TheBikeman General User Member Since: 11/27/2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Post Count: 91 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 7:48:30 AM  Penn State trustees are asking for an appeal, that is a first step. They will be turned down by the NCAA. The next step is to sue in federal court and get an injunction. They might get one. The third step is to go to court to have the suspension lifted. The NCAA will have to prove in court that they used a factual report. The Freeh report is highly suspect. This could go on for years, especially is the players join in as well. The NCAA is well beyond their jurisdiction here and there really is no precedent in this. This could get really ugly. They are within their rights to sue though,  I wish the Bobcats were playing another team. The stinkin media will be all over this game, and not for the sports angle either. Back to Top The Situation General User Member Since: 7/12/2010 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 957 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 8:27:14 AM  I hate hearing the phrase "due process" related to this case. The NCAA is a private organization. They can do just about anything to any of its members. If they wanted to fine every team with a blue uniform in its association $60 mill they could. If Penn State doesn't agree with the NCAA, that's fine. Leave. The only organization keeping Penn State from hanging a banner with all of JoPas wins and putting the statue out front is themselves (granted they'd likely have to leave the NCAA to do that). Maybe because the NCAA works with schools funded by the government people think they have to operate like the government? Well thats just not true. No precedent is required for the NCAA to do anything. The NCAA did not discriminate against Penn State, and from the government's eyes that's about all they would have the "precedent" to rule on. Last Edited: 8/8/2012 8:30:13 AM by The Situation Back to Top Ohio69 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 3,062 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 8:36:49 AM  SonnyDrysdale wrote: Penn State trustees are asking for an appeal, that is a first step. They will be turned down by the NCAA. The next step is to sue in federal court and get an injunction. They might get one. The third step is to go to court to have the suspension lifted. The NCAA will have to prove in court that they used a factual report. The Freeh report is highly suspect. This could go on for years, especially is the players join in as well. The NCAA is well beyond their jurisdiction here and there really is no precedent in this. This could get really ugly. They are within their rights to sue though,  This is what really could happen.  Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?..... Back to Top Ted Thompson Administrator Member Since: 11/11/2004 Location: MAC Play Post Count: 7,723 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 9:29:48 AM  rpbobcat wrote: What they were most upset about  was the vacating of the PSU's wins,particularly  how much it hurts the players who did nothing wrong and now,from a football standpoint, don't exist. They said it was obvious that this was only done to get at Paterno's record as winningist coach.  Several people said the same thing that's been said here "If this involved the history department,would you void everyone's history degree ?" I keep hearing this argument and don't understand it. Former players got fame, fortune and degrees (that's the most important thing here, right?) for their work at Penn State. This ruling impacts that in no great way.  Their coach, unfortunately, put his own quest for fame in front of the safety of children. So this is the one way they can penalize that coach. His name shouldn't be mentioned among coaching greats and this paperwork move helps ensure that. Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database. Back to Top Kevin Finnegan General User Member Since: 2/4/2005 Location: Rockton, IL Post Count: 1,168 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 9:55:28 AM  This has probably been mentioned elsewhere, I just have yet to read it.  The decision (right, wrong, or somewhere in between) reminded me of the punishments handed down by Roger Goodell.  In the organization that he is commissioner of, he makes rulings based on his interpretations.  The NCAA under Emmert appears to be taking the Goodell approach in handing out punishments (such as that given to the Saints or a player with a felony conviction). Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,781 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 11:58:05 AM  Did anyone ever accuse Penn State of being a "History Factory"?  Was the chairman of the Department of History ever more powerful than the president and paid more in salary? Is PSU primarily an academic institution with a football team or a Football Factory with some ancillary academic functions?  The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,598 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 1:18:08 PM  Quote: I keep hearing this argument and don't understand it. Former players got fame, fortune and degrees (that's the most important thing here, right?) for their work at Penn State. This ruling impacts that in no great way.  Their coach, unfortunately, put his own quest for fame in front of the safety of children. So this is the one way they can penalize that coach. His name shouldn't be mentioned among coaching greats and this paperwork move helps ensure that. Two things. 1.I don't know if you were a Division I athlete in college.     I recognized  that my primary prupose of going to college was to get my degree,so I could get a job.     But I was also a Division I athlete in soccer and wrestling.     I know I would be very upset if  my athletic record was "erased"  through no violation of NCAA rules governing        the sports I participated in. 2.I've read most of the Freeh report. (I haven;t had time to finish the whole report yet)    There is no question that the "culture" at PSU  resulted in Sandusky not being prosecuted  sooner.But from      reading the report I don't get the impression that Paterno's actions/inactions were done with a delibrate      "quest for fame".     What I don't understand from reading the Freeh report is why the local (non PSU) authorities didn't persue their       investigation in 1998.They seemed to have more then enough "evidence" to move foward.            Several PSU fans I talked to last weekend also said that they expect the names of several high level Pa.        politicians to be identified as also  "covering up" the Sandusky situation.          Back to Top Ted Thompson Administrator Member Since: 11/11/2004 Location: MAC Play Post Count: 7,723 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 1:44:34 PM  rpbobcat wrote: I keep hearing this argument and don't understand it. Former players got fame, fortune and degrees (that's the most important thing here, right?) for their work at Penn State. This ruling impacts that in no great way.  Their coach, unfortunately, put his own quest for fame in front of the safety of children. So this is the one way they can penalize that coach. His name shouldn't be mentioned among coaching greats and this paperwork move helps ensure that. Two things. 1.I don't know if you were a Division I athlete in college.     I recognized  that my primary prupose of going to college was to get my degree,so I could get a job.     But I was also a Division I athlete in soccer and wrestling.     I know I would be very upset if  my athletic record was "erased"  through no violation of NCAA rules governing        the sports I participated in. 2.I've read most of the Freeh report. (I haven;t had time to finish the whole report yet)    There is no question that the "culture" at PSU  resulted in Sandusky not being prosecuted  sooner.But from      reading the report I don't get the impression that Paterno's actions/inactions were done with a delibrate      "quest for fame".     What I don't understand from reading the Freeh report is why the local (non PSU) authorities didn't persue their       investigation in 1998.They seemed to have more then enough "evidence" to move foward.            Several PSU fans I talked to last weekend also said that they expect the names of several high level Pa.        politicians to be identified as also  "covering up" the Sandusky situation.          I don't think their athletic records have been erased. I'm sure their names are still in the record books for their passing/catching/tackling achievements. Their resulting NFL careers weren't erased. Their degrees weren't erased. The fame they garnered can't be taken back. You know, I know, they know, the fans know the games they won. Yes, the wins have been vacated for record-keeping purposes. This due to the fact that their coach and other university administrators, regardless of motivations, chose to place a higher priority on the football program than the safety of children. I think the fact that some Trustees and players place this record-keeping as a priority over the lesson to be learned here makes one fear that the culture that led to this hasn't changed at all. I would think they would see more benevolence from the NCAA if they worked together to try to figure out how this lesson gets learned instead of fighting it. My 2 cents. Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database. Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,598 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 2:19:04 PM  Ted Thompson wrote: rpbobcat wrote: I keep hearing this argument and don't understand it. Former players got fame, fortune and degrees (that's the most important thing here, right?) for their work at Penn State. This ruling impacts that in no great way.  Their coach, unfortunately, put his own quest for fame in front of the safety of children. So this is the one way they can penalize that coach. His name shouldn't be mentioned among coaching greats and this paperwork move helps ensure that. Two things. 1.I don't know if you were a Division I athlete in college.     I recognized  that my primary prupose of going to college was to get my degree,so I could get a job.     But I was also a Division I athlete in soccer and wrestling.     I know I would be very upset if  my athletic record was "erased"  through no violation of NCAA rules governing        the sports I participated in. 2.I've read most of the Freeh report. (I haven;t had time to finish the whole report yet)    There is no question that the "culture" at PSU  resulted in Sandusky not being prosecuted  sooner.But from      reading the report I don't get the impression that Paterno's actions/inactions were done with a delibrate      "quest for fame".     What I don't understand from reading the Freeh report is why the local (non PSU) authorities didn't persue their       investigation in 1998.They seemed to have more then enough "evidence" to move foward.            Several PSU fans I talked to last weekend also said that they expect the names of several high level Pa.        politicians to be identified as also  "covering up" the Sandusky situation.          I don't think their athletic records have been erased. I'm sure their names are still in the record books for their passing/catching/tackling achievements. Their resulting NFL careers weren't erased. Their degrees weren't erased. The fame they garnered can't be taken back. You know, I know, they know, the fans know the games they won. Yes, the wins have been vacated for record-keeping purposes. This due to the fact that their coach and other university administrators, regardless of motivations, chose to place a higher priority on the football program than the safety of children. I think the fact that some Trustees and players place this record-keeping as a priority over the lesson to be learned here makes one fear that the culture that led to this hasn't changed at all. I would think they would see more benevolence from the NCAA if they worked together to try to figure out how this lesson gets learned instead of fighting it. My 2 cents. I would think that,if the NCAA vacated the games,the statistics,at least as far as the NCAA is concerned are vacted also.I don't know how PSU is dealing with this "internally'.I also don't know if the NCAA cares if PSU still "holds" the player's records on their "books". I agree with you that, if you were a star, "fame' can't be taken back.But if you were an average player,which most college athletes are, you didn't garner fame,fortune etc. and those are the players I was refering too. As I said before,I played 2 Division I sports in college. I agree there are lessons PSU had/has to learn.However,seeing  the results of the endles hours of practice and the sacrifices you make to participate in  D I sports "disappear"  ,through no fault of myself,would hurt.  Back to Top Pataskala General User Member Since: 7/8/2010 Location: At least six feet away from anybody else Post Count: 9,365 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 5:09:31 PM  The Situation wrote: I hate hearing the phrase "due process" related to this case. The NCAA is a private organization. They can do just about anything to any of its members. If they wanted to fine every team with a blue uniform in its association $60 mill they could. If Penn State doesn't agree with the NCAA, that's fine. Leave. The only organization keeping Penn State from hanging a banner with all of JoPas wins and putting the statue out front is themselves (granted they'd likely have to leave the NCAA to do that). Maybe because the NCAA works with schools funded by the government people think they have to operate like the government? Well thats just not true. No precedent is required for the NCAA to do anything. The NCAA did not discriminate against Penn State, and from the government's eyes that's about all they would have the "precedent" to rule on. The "due process" involved here is the obligation for the NCAA, a monopolist regulator of intercollegiate athletics acting in a quasi-governmental role, to follow its own rules.  Its rules require a hearing before sanctions can be levied.  No such hearing occurred here.  And although they coerced the Penn St administration to sign off on a settlement, the validity of that agreement is in question if the board -- a governmental body -- had to ok it.  Something that obligates a state institution to spend the kind of money the settlement does should implicate state public meetings laws (even though the money itself might not come directly from state funds, the loss of that money might impact other, state-funded programs at Penn St).  The meeting among the university prez, the board chairman and university counsel to approve the settlement doesn't seem to fill the bill.  We will get by. We will get by. We will get by. We will survive. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,781 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 7:30:59 PM  I don't think that these legal maneuvers  by rogue board members will be successful.  If they do manage to get the sanctions thrown out, I predict that the NCAA will go through the motions of "following their rules" and then slap PSU with a 4-year death penalty.  My best guess is that other "cooler heads" on the board will eventually talk sense into these three "off-the-reservaton" trustees and that the legal route will not be pursued.   The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top OrlandoCat General User Member Since: 3/15/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 355 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 7:50:11 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: Did anyone ever accuse Penn State of being a "History Factory"?  Was the chairman of the Department of History ever more powerful than the president and paid more in salary? Is PSU primarily an academic institution with a football team or a Football Factory with some ancillary academic functions?  Your first two questions are puzzling...they don't seem to really relate to the original question being asked.  I hope you're not imlying that the crimes commited are bad just because the men in the scandel wielded 'x' amount of power within the university...or made 'y' amount of money per year. To your last question - I think Penn State is a great academic school, that also happens to have a good football team (most years).  I would put it on par with Stanford. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,781 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 8:05:28 PM  Please look at rpbobcat's statement about comments he heard recently on a trip to Pennsylvania.  I was sarcastically pointing out that one can't make a comparison between how this type of scandal would be handled if it involved the history department versus the "football department."  It's a non-sequiter. The problem at PSU does not involve a "history department" culture that led high ranking members of the administration (from the prez on down) to coverup the actions of Sandusky.  It involved a corrupt "football culture."  I think that the NCAA -- for the first time in its history -- is trying to send a message that football über alles culture is no longer going to be tolerated.  It's high time! Last Edited: 8/8/2012 8:14:57 PM by OhioCatFan The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top El Gato Roberto General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 1,220 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 8:30:06 PM  OrlandoCat wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Did anyone ever accuse Penn State of being a "History Factory"?  Was the chairman of the Department of History ever more powerful than the president and paid more in salary? Is PSU primarily an academic institution with a football team or a Football Factory with some ancillary academic functions?  Your first two questions are puzzling...they don't seem to really relate to the original question being asked.  I hope you're not imlying that the crimes commited are bad just because the men in the scandel wielded 'x' amount of power within the university...or made 'y' amount of money per year. To your last question - I think Penn State is a great academic school, that also happens to have a good football team (most years).  I would put it on par with Stanford. Penn State is not even CLOSE to Stanford academically.  You might be thinking of Penn.  it happens in Ohio all the time, too.  Back to Top OrlandoCat General User Member Since: 3/15/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 355 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 11:43:26 PM  El Gato Roberto wrote: OrlandoCat wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Did anyone ever accuse Penn State of being a "History Factory"?  Was the chairman of the Department of History ever more powerful than the president and paid more in salary? Is PSU primarily an academic institution with a football team or a Football Factory with some ancillary academic functions?  Your first two questions are puzzling...they don't seem to really relate to the original question being asked.  I hope you're not imlying that the crimes commited are bad just because the men in the scandel wielded 'x' amount of power within the university...or made 'y' amount of money per year. To your last question - I think Penn State is a great academic school, that also happens to have a good football team (most years).  I would put it on par with Stanford. Penn State is not even CLOSE to Stanford academically.  You might be thinking of Penn.  it happens in Ohio all the time, too.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...I don't consider the difference between 5 and 45 that big given the list is of the top 2000. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities Back to Top OrlandoCat General User Member Since: 3/15/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 355 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/8/2012 11:53:23 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: Please look at rpbobcat's statement about comments he heard recently on a trip to Pennsylvania.  I was sarcastically pointing out that one can't make a comparison between how this type of scandal would be handled if it involved the history department versus the "football department."  It's a non-sequiter. The problem at PSU does not involve a "history department" culture that led high ranking members of the administration (from the prez on down) to coverup the actions of Sandusky.  It involved a corrupt "football culture."  I think that the NCAA -- for the first time in its history -- is trying to send a message that football über alles culture is no longer going to be tolerated.  It's high time! I think it is a fair question to ask - I still don't think the NCAA was the proper athority to make a call.  I believe Tom Corbett should have been making the call. For what it's worth..history outranked football last season too. Back to Top El Gato Roberto General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 1,220 Status: Offline     RE: Penn State to sue NCAA ?    Posted: 8/9/2012 6:37:07 AM  OrlandoCat wrote: El Gato Roberto wrote: OrlandoCat wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Did anyone ever accuse Penn State of being a "History Factory"?  Was the chairman of the Department of History ever more powerful than the president and paid more in salary? Is PSU primarily an academic institution with a football team or a Football Factory with some ancillary academic functions?  Your first two questions are puzzling...they don't seem to really relate to the original question being asked.  I hope you're not imlying that the crimes commited are bad just because the men in the scandel wielded 'x' amount of power within the university...or made 'y' amount of money per year. To your last question - I think Penn State is a great academic school, that also happens to have a good football team (most years).  I would put it on par with Stanford. Penn State is not even CLOSE to Stanford academically.  You might be thinking of Penn.  it happens in Ohio all the time, too.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...I don't consider the difference between 5 and 45 that big given the list is of the top 2000. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities .  That is the list to which I was referring.   I think a top 5 school is a very special thing.  Perhaps I cut my deli meat too thin?  So we can disagree.   Last Edited: 8/9/2012 6:38:23 AM by El Gato Roberto Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 25  of 28 Posts Jump to Page:   1 | 2    Next > View Other 'Ohio Football' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 227 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 227 Guests 0 Registered Users There are no other users looking at this page.

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