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Topic: Exposure

Topic: Exposure

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bobcat695
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Exposure

Posted: 9/2/2012 10:20:08 PM

Ohio University was in the national spotlight for a full week leading up to the Penn State game. It wasn't just the sports page that was interested in yesterday's events. School pride is swelling and new folks are learning about our great institution. I don't think athletics is more important than academics, but I definitely think the two can coexist. A rising tide lifts all ships. We are a proud household of Ohio alumni. I am glad our president agrees that athletics can shed a positive light on the entire campus.

I wonder what Steve Hays did yesterday to advance Ohio University.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

JSF
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/2/2012 10:29:47 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

I wonder what Steve Hays did yesterday to advance Ohio University.

He could have done a number of things. Answered email from his students, graded assignments, worked on a project...

This kind of thing helps nothing. The dude has an opinion about how to improve the university and is outspoken about it. This is a good thing, even if we disagree with that opinion. Attacking our faculty is not what we want to do.

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Jerry86
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/2/2012 11:26:55 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

I wonder what Steve Hays did yesterday to advance Ohio University.

Cheap shot. I'd expect more from a true alum who supposedly understands BOTH academics and athletics. There are no intercollegiate athletics without a university and the academics that go with it. Given he state of funding for universities I feel he, and all faculty members, are entitled to their positions/opinions given the scarcity of $$$ these days. MOST students, in fact, virtually almost ALL of those graduating from Ohio will move on to careers outside of professional sports. So where is $$ best spent?

Paul Graham
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/2/2012 11:48:00 PM

JSF wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

I wonder what Steve Hays did yesterday to advance Ohio University.

+1. Hays probably cares more about Ohio University than 99% of the administration, faculty and students. I bet Penn State wishes they had a few Steve Hays' to keep their athletic department in check.

bobcat695
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 12:38:30 AM

I do understand the importance of academics. I've always advocated academics ahead of athletics. I also understand that the university is a huge business. He makes around $100,000 a year to teach small classes about mythology and ancient love stories. The cost to educate our children is going to be astronomical. As someone who is less than 10 years away from paying for my two boys to attend Ohio, I am worried about spending. I am in favor of running a more fiscally responsible campus. That includes increasing funding to practical applications of education and decreasing classes like his. His course list for the year looks like my wife's book club schedule.

Athletics builds the Ohio University brand, engages students and alumni and provides reasons for people to be on a college campus that might otherwise never go there. Athletics represents a very small part of the university's overall budget. The department also is responsible for a more diverse campus. You can call it a cheap shot, but I was dead serious.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

OU-Barker
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Location: Cleveland Heights, OH
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 12:45:22 AM

bobcat695 wrote:

That includes increasing funding to practical applications of education and decreasing classes like his. His course list for the year looks like my wife's book club schedule.

What you deem as insignificant, others major in. I'd take it easy on what and when we should be scheduling. OHIO is a liberal arts university, that doesn't mean its all business and journalism.

bobcat695
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 1:04:04 AM

Straight from the university's public statistics:

Number of students on Athens campus returning this fall to major in Classics/World Religion:

Sophomores: 4
Juniors: 2
Seniors: 6

How can someone cry for a balanced university budget when there is this kind of demand for his department?

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

JSF
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 1:07:55 AM

The Classics and World Religions department is tiny, one of the university's smallest. You're not going to get any blood from that stone. At the same time, any self-respecting liberal arts institution of higher learning is going to have one.

You wouldn't give a crap about it either way if Hays never said anything. It's not about fiscal responsibility, it's about eliminating enemies. I don't know why we would want to get rid of highly-rated instructors when one of the university's biggest problems (mostly unsaid) is holding onto talented faculty.

Quote:

How can someone cry for a balanced university budget when there is this kind of demand for his department?

So only professors in, say, communications or history can make this call? The number of students in the major is what determines the validity of the stance? He's been pretty consistent in speaking about the university as a whole and not his department. You're right; there are few people with that major. But there a lot of students who take C&WR classes for Tier II or III requirements. And the students who are in that department tend to be high performing. Heck, a significant part of their budget comes from outside the university in the first place.

A quick salary search for Hays came up with $75,000, not $100,000. Do you have a source for that?

Last Edited: 9/3/2012 2:49:09 AM by JSF

bobcat695
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 1:18:16 AM

Classics/World Religions has 10 faculty members on staff and had 30 total students enrolled in their program last year. My two majors, Marketing and Finance had 6 and 4 faculty members respectively, and 944 students enrolled in their combined programs. That is a very significant piece of data to me. I don't think many people on campus consider those two departments to be the same size, but the university resources allocated to them are pretty close.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Paul Graham
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 1:55:30 AM

bobcat695 wrote:

Those numbers seem VERY low for marketing and finance given the number of students. My guess is that you don't need need full time, tenured faculty to teach Marketing. Instead, it probably makes sense to have adjunct faculty with industry experience teaching the courses. They'd probably be better at it anyhow.

And..just because the world religions major has only 30 students doesn't mean ANYTHING. What matters is how many courses they offer and how popular they are amongst students. There is probably lots of cross over with other liberal arts departments. How many math majors graduate every year? I bet less than 50. How many students take math courses? Probably 2/3 of the school.

Last Edited: 9/3/2012 1:56:16 AM by Paul Graham

JSF
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 2:33:49 AM

I'm guessing business and similar profs handle a lot of those classes as well.

Business_Cat
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 10:08:41 AM

Paul Graham wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

Those numbers seem VERY low for marketing and finance given the number of students. My guess is that you don't need need full time, tenured faculty to teach Marketing. Instead, it probably makes sense to have adjunct faculty with industry experience teaching the courses. They'd probably be better at it anyhow.

And..just because the world religions major has only 30 students doesn't mean ANYTHING. What matters is how many courses they offer and how popular they are amongst students. There is probably lots of cross over with other liberal arts departments. How many math majors graduate every year? I bet less than 50. How many students take math courses? Probably 2/3 of the school.

All College of Business courses are taught by Professors.

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OhioCatFan
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 11:26:17 AM

OU-Barker wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

That includes increasing funding to practical applications of education and decreasing classes like his. His course list for the year looks like my wife's book club schedule.

What you deem as insignificant, others major in. I'd take it easy on what and when we should be scheduling. OHIO is a liberal arts university, that doesn't mean its all business and journalism.

Corection: Ohio was a liberal arts university. Now, with the College of Communication, the new College of Health Sciences and Professions, the expanding College of Osteopathic Medicine, and the well-endowed and expanding College of Engineering, the balance is tipping in favor of professional education. This is not to say that the College of Arts and Sciences isn't still very important and that the classics and world religions still aren't important parts of a well-rounded education. They are! It's just that the balance of power is shifting. In fact, I think that this is a large part of the reason that certain folks in the Faculty Senate who represent the College of Arts and Sciences are so stridently against the administration. They sense this shift and they don't like the loss of power that it represents.

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JSF
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 3:56:29 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Corection: Ohio was a liberal arts university.

Correction of the corection: Ohio University defines itself as liberal arts, according to Vision Ohio.

The Optimist
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 4:50:04 PM

Drunk kid rambling on Court Street this Saturday > The Post > Miami Hawk Talk > Faculty Senate

I've seen crazier things happen.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 5:53:00 PM

JSF wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Corection: Ohio was a liberal arts university.

Correction of the corection: Ohio University defines itself as liberal arts, according to Vision Ohio.

Correction to the correction of the correction: Actions speak louder than words. So-called "vision statements" often lag behind reality.

Zaleski
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 6:15:12 PM

It sounds to me like certain members of this board are in danger of falling prey to what I call "Penn State syndrome" where athletics should be considered to have priority over academics. The day Ohio falls into that trap will be the day that I will be ashamed to call myself a Bobcat. This should never, EVER, be allowed to happen.

The Optimist
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 6:18:36 PM

What does one do with a Western and World Religions degree?

I've seen crazier things happen.

Zaleski
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 6:21:03 PM

Seminary?

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 6:55:07 PM

Zaleski is right . . . a true university needs classes like this that broaden ones horizons. Not every class and/or major should be directed toward making one more employable. Some classes and majors should be aimed at helping us better understand our world and the world of ideas. IMHO, no one should be able to get an undergraduate degree without being exposed to some good classes in the humanities -- like philosophy, history, psychology, sociology, etc. These course, when well taught (which they often aren't, but that's another discussion) really help you become a much more well-rounded person.

bobcat695
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 7:22:17 PM

Zaleski wrote:

I'll assume that was directed at me and take offense at the remark. To compare my belief that Steve Hays' classes are less valuable than Business, Communications or Engineering classes to Penn State' overzealous fanbase is ridiculous. Those that know me will agree I have never had those priorities mixed up. I do, however, believe athletics are part of a vibrant, active college campus. I did not say there wasn't a place for these thought provoking classes. Learning to think creatively is a lifelong pursuit. I just believe the primary focus of a college education should be to prepare someone to enter adulthood. In our world, that means gaining skills to enter the workforce.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

JSF
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 7:36:53 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

JSF wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Corection: Ohio was a liberal arts university.

Correction of the corection: Ohio University defines itself as liberal arts, according to Vision Ohio.

Correction to the correction of the correction: Actions speak louder than words. So-called "vision statements" often lag behind reality.

You don't get to define the university ahead of how it defines itself.

The Optimist wrote:

What does one do with a Western and World Religions degree?

Same things you can do with 90% of other degrees.

Last Edited: 9/3/2012 7:37:41 PM by JSF

DelBobcat
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/3/2012 9:25:15 PM

My friend got his degree in Classics from OU and went to grad school for higher education administration. I also know a lot of people go to law school.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/4/2012 12:56:45 AM

The Optimist wrote:

What does one do with a Western and World Religions degree?

This and that for almost three decades, take extension courses in accounting and become a CPA.

Of cOUrse if you have any brains, yOU get the accOUnting degree at OHIO UNIVERSITY, ATHENS, OHIO and get the major career progress going three decades sooner.

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oldkatz
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RE: Exposure

Posted: 9/4/2012 8:11:45 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

+1 well stated

(especially from an oil tender swabbie squid-------beat Navy!!!)

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