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Topic: A sure sign of Fall

Topic: A sure sign of Fall

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rpbobcat
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A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 7:19:33 AM

Professor emeritus Barry Thomas has a letter in The Post critisizing Ohio Athletics.
In this case its about Coach Solich's contract.

shabamon
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Location: Cincinnati
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 7:54:21 AM

I thought something like this would emerge as "The Post" has published a couple coach contract articles in the past week. Someone took the bait.

Voice of Reason
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 8:13:07 AM

I'm sorry nobody could hear you Barry Thomas, we all had a Sweet Sixteen appearance and a win over Penn State in our ear!

BOOM...Roasted

GoCats105
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 8:27:00 AM

One of the best lines in cinema is from "The Program" when Coach Winters (played by James Caan) is lobbying for one of his players to be reinstated and there is a professor in the meeting with the school President.

Professor: This is not a football vocational school. It's an institute for higher learning.

Coach Winters: Yeah, but when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a kid do a damn chemistry experiment? Why don't you stick the bow-tie up your...

So. True.

We don't have 80,000...but more than 80,000 were watching Penn State Saturday.

Last Edited: 9/5/2012 8:27:44 AM by GoCats105

CATman
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 8:55:13 AM

These letters mean less and less as Ohio posts huge athletic wins.

While coaches salaries will always be a hot button topic, I can't imagine a worse time for this guy to try to make a point.

The national recognition the university has received in the past year, via athletics, has trumped anything I can remember in my lifetime. I'd like for them to try and put a dollar figure on the rebranding jumpstart athletics accounted for. Can anyone honestly envision someone recognizing us as OHIO without the Basketball or Football team's accomplishments?

I understand the issue at hand but just disagree with his premise: that this is a "misuse" of student's money. I wonder why he doesn't talk about all the other ridiculous things students pay for? You know, like $500 each quarter for text books that you barely use. Or maybe that class pamphlet that costs $50? The one written by the professor.

The athletic fee seems like a bargain when you start to add up all the unnecessary things students pay for... Especially when the fee grants you free admission in to all athletic events.

In the end, athletic support only accounts for around 2-3% of a students overall costs. Why don't we focus on finding efficiencies in the other 97-98% first? Barry seems to like to center his attention on athletics but I'd love to get his take on why such a small percentage of student spending has him so up in arms.

I also think it is interesting that this letter appeared in the Post the same day they ran a story about Ohio's net tuition being one of the highest in the country.

Last Edited: 9/5/2012 9:03:42 AM by CATman

My high school basketball coach had an old saying.....There are two things that don't last: Dogs that chase cars and teams that don't make free-throws.

nyghtmare
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 9:14:11 AM

If we start to say the athletics are more important than the academics then we got the same problem that Penn State had and O$U has. I don't want the Horseshoe, I don't want the multi-million boosters influencing the programs. I like the balance of the two. Everytime somebody on this forum points out a letter by the faculty about the cost of athletics and commenting how stupid they sound, all I see is idol worshiping where somebody is rubbing the head of their Frank Solich bobblehead a little too hard.

Yes, faculty doesn't teach in front of 80K. I wouldn't want that. If that were the case, we would O$U where their graduation feels like a McDonald's drive thru line.

Can we please stop these threads? Because the true sign of fall is a thread complain about the faculty complaining about money.

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Second Rule of Dance Team: We don't leave during dance team.

Bobcat36
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 9:57:13 AM

nyghtmare wrote:

I don't think anyone has said or would ever say that Athletics are more important than Academics. Completely agree that's a well paved road to Ohio A&M levels of corruption.

Standing up for something that you believe in and support isn't idol worship. I think it's safe to say the vast majority of the folks on this board graduated from Ohio. Obviously, we all chose the institution for educational reasons and during our time there fell in love with it for others.

When someone (faculty or not) feels the need to voice their opinion publicly they open themselves up to dissenting response. I'd like to know how many hours he puts in throughout the year as compared to Coach Solich. I'd also like for him to understand a few things...

Specialized talent = Higher earnings. It's the same in any society in any country.

Scrutinized performance = Higher earnings. There's no such thing as tenure outside of academia and that is most certainly a good thing.

Athletics (like it or not) can be an extremely effective front porch to a University. The impact of our recent success on the field / court has already shone through.

Last Edited: 9/5/2012 9:59:23 AM by Bobcat36

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

shabamon
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 10:09:39 AM

I don't think Barry's first two questions are attacks on the role of athletics at a university. Those seem legitimate. His third question is, however, an attempt to give his argument more legs.

I'm more concerned with The Post's reporting recently as I really feel they are baiting faculty members to criticize the athletics department.

GoCats105
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 12:01:14 PM

nyghtmare wrote:

Academics are more important than athletics long term, I agree there. But these professors who proclaim that athletics are too big at Ohio University are out of their minds. I like where we are now in the balance of athletics and academics, but I also feel athletics is a great marketing tool for the university that needs to be accelerated any time you get the opportunity. Wins in the NCAA tournament, bowl wins, and wins over BCS programs in football don't come around to often for schools of our size. We need to take advantage of this glorious era of Ohio Athletics while we still have the chance.

Ohio69
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 12:10:17 PM

Those who like athletics need to stay vigilant. But, can probably practice just in time worrying. Meaning as long as McDavis is here, there's not much to worry about regarding the pure blind hatred some faculty have for athletics. Once McDavis leaves however, look out.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

The Optimist
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 1:09:04 PM

Why is it that so many German profs have such a hate for Ohio Athletics?

I've seen crazier things happen.

mf279801
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/5/2012 3:14:13 PM

The Optimist wrote:

Why is it that so many German profs have such a hate for Ohio Athletics?

No varsity Men's soccer

Monroe Slavin
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/6/2012 1:17:14 AM

I thought that the title of this thread was indicative of ...well, where is Bobcat Love? We need his thoughts after last Saturday.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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Bobcat36
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/7/2012 8:35:37 AM

I responded and it looks like The Post printed it yesterday...

http://thepost.ohiou.edu/content/post-letter-athletics-wo...

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

Bobcatbob
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/7/2012 8:53:06 AM

Very well done, Scott. Thanks.

Alan Swank
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/7/2012 10:18:27 AM

Very well written and balanced letter. Other than the two semi colons, it's perfect. Had to throw that in there before OCF's wife or Steveland, the grammar queen and king, had a go at it.

Bobcat36
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/7/2012 10:24:41 AM

Semi colons were always my weakness...

I also realized after the fact that I used "support" twice in the same sentence...Such is the risk when writing with emotion...

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

Alan Swank
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/7/2012 10:59:31 AM

Bobcat36 wrote:

Semi colons were always my weakness...

I also realized after the fact that I used "support" twice in the same sentence...Such is the risk when writing with emotion...

This was the sentence that I really liked - it provides room for both sides of the argument - a position that is sorely missed in American discourse today.

I understand that not everyone can or will see this opportunity the same way. In the end, it’s a love for the university that drives these sorts of feelings whether rising from support or dissent.

SBH
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/7/2012 11:34:26 AM

Very nicely reasoned argument. Congrats.

Bobcat36
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/19/2012 10:16:55 AM

Exhibit "A"...

http://thepost.ohiou.edu/content/ou-victories-boost-sales-uptown-apparel-shops

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

L.C.
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/19/2012 11:49:32 AM

The benefits of athletics, when you boil it down, are:
1. It benefits the local economy (apparel sales, food and beverage sales, etc), thereby closing the gap between town and gown
2. It advertises the University
3. It adds to the campus social life
4. It adds diversity to the students at the University
5. It creates a tie that connects alumni to the University, and a reason to return to campus, thereby promoting future giving

I think most reasonable people would agree that all five benefits exist. The problem is what value to place on each of the benefits. I think there is also some disagreement about how to assess the costs of the investment in athletics as regards the situation where Title IX requires the addition of women's sports. It surprises me a little bit that no one every really tries to put numbers on costs or benefits.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Ted Thompson
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/19/2012 12:44:58 PM

L.C. wrote:

I agree LC. I have actually noodled around with how to quantify some of the benefits in the past. I would add a #6 and call it Ohio Athletics as a classroom. With Ohio's SportsAd, Athletic Training, Radio/TV and Journalism programs, it is a significant value.

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The Optimist
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/19/2012 12:57:10 PM

There has to be some way to value the marketing.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Ozcat
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/19/2012 12:58:46 PM

L.C. wrote:

5. It creates a tie that connects alumni to the University, and a reason to return to campus, thereby promoting future giving

This.

I rode down to Nashville with 4 others last year. We talked with Schaus and McDavis at the pep rally, and a week later, 3 of us were new members of the Bobcat Club. Winning gets people excited. Excitement leads to more frequent trips to Athens or elsewhere to support the team(s). When you feel that you're a part of something special, you'll open up your wallet.

I tend to feel that my 'generation', so to speak, of OU alums (early 2000's) grew very apathetic towards athletics. Football games were lame, and the basketball team did ok, but couldn't consistently keep fans engaged. The students in school now are a whole different breed. They're going to leave Athens and have fond memories of winning bowl games, NCAA tournament runs, and consistent success. I would venture to guess that they'll make more frequent trips to Athens, and will have less resilence in donating to athletics because the culture is changing.

The snowball is flying down the hill. Let's keep it rolling.

L.C.
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RE: A sure sign of Fall

Posted: 9/19/2012 1:24:20 PM

Good point, Ted. I should have included that, too.

Ozcat wrote:

... I would venture to guess that they'll make more frequent trips to Athens, and will have less resilence in donating to athletics because the culture is changing. ...

Ah, but there is the fear of the athletics haters. They fear that people will replace donations to the general university with athletics donations, exactly what they don't want to happen. My suggestion is that people will be more likely to donate not only to athletics, but also to the University as a whole because they have a closer connection to the University, and regular visits to Athens.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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