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Topic: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Topic: O$U may drop some MAC schools

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Pataskala
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O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/27/2012 7:04:37 PM

AP reports that this may be fallout from the playoff system. We'll likely see most bigger conference schools going to no more than one or two "mid-major" opponents, with maybe an increase in their conference games.

A bit more from Yahoo. Looks like Smith is willing to give up a home game to raise the bar on the schedule. Says that games vs. MAC schools won't be eliminated, but there'll be fewer of them.

Last Edited: 10/4/2012 9:59:02 AM by Pataskala

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mf279801
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/27/2012 7:39:52 PM

What're they going to do, not being able to play 8 home games?

PalmerFest
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/27/2012 9:32:58 PM

They scairt.

ts1227
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/27/2012 9:54:04 PM

Hopefully they cut out more of the non-Ohio MAC schools, and keep the Ohio ones in the rotation.

I understand not wanting to play 2 a year, and generally made fun of them when they did.

bobcat72
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/27/2012 10:30:09 PM

All indications I have heard is that we do not intend to play them anytime soon. This is a Schaus/Solich move rather than anything driven by Ohio State, though. If I were a betting man, I would say we go a good 10-15 years before we see the Buckeyes back on the schedule.

Mike Johnson
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/27/2012 11:07:37 PM

If OSU and other FBS programs decide to strengthen their non-conf schedules, it will require some creativity. I say that because of the number of games FBS/1A teams are playing this season against FCS/1-AA and Transitional teams.

This seaon:

SEC teams are playing 14 FCS teams and 2 Ts (Transitional)

For the Big 10 it's 8 FCS teams and 2 Ts

For the Big 12 it's 9 FCS teams and 1 T

For the ACC it's 13 FCS teams and 1 T

For the PAC 12 it's 9 FCS teams

For the Big East it's 9 FCS teams

For the Mountain West it's 9 FCS teams and 2 Ts

For Conference USA it's 6 FCS teams and 2 Ts

For the four indy teams it's 3 FCS teams and 1 T

For the MAC it's 11 FCS teams and, chiefly because of UMass, 8 Ts

For the WAC it's 9 FCS teams and 13 Ts

For the Sun Belt it's 7 FCS teams and 9 Ts

Do the addition and the totals are 107 games against FCS teams and another 42 against Ts (which of course were themselves FCS teams).

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Gallia Cat
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/27/2012 11:26:17 PM

I agree 100% with this philosophy. Need to establish program as the top Ohio MAC program, then take down UC in the home and home. Then we will worry about OSWho

The Optimist
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 7:23:10 AM

As much as I would love to beat OSU, going undefeated is the true money maker.

I've seen crazier things happen.

bobcatsquared
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 1:11:13 PM

I've been anticipating this news for several months, thinking the best possible outcome of the new playoff format would be schools such as osu inc. having to toughen up their non-league schedules. More importantly, perhaps, is that the buckeyes of the college football world will not only have to play more forminable opponents, but some of those games will have to be played on the road, lending more parity to the 100-plus DI schools.

Pete Chouteau
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 1:15:21 PM

This is just as much an indictment of the B1G as it is anything else. When they go to a 9 game conference schedule, they will need help from OOC games to get over the hump because the conference slate will hold up like 10-year-old underpants.

oucs 1986
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 1:16:57 PM

bobcatsquared wrote:

<snip!>.... , but some of those games will have to be played on the road, lending more parity to the 100-plus DI schools.

I honestly expect that we'll see a reclassification of schools, and that there won't be 100+ D1 schools.

It really will be haves and have-nots.

I just hope we can be a have.

-john

Go Bobcats!

OUVan
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 1:32:00 PM

oucs 1986 wrote:

I honestly expect that we'll see a reclassification of schools, and that there won't be 100+ D1 schools.

It really will be haves and have-nots.

I just hope we can be a have.

-john

At that point I won't watch another D-1, or whatever they will call themselves, game again. Hopefully whatever division Ohio is relegated to has a full-blown playoff.

DayvidGallagher
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 2:10:41 PM

OUVan wrote:

At that point I won't watch another D-1, or whatever they will call themselves

D-0? Although since the former D2 is now D1-AA, maybe when leaving D1-A they can become D1-[Whatever comes before A]

“The thing that gets lost in the deal is we’re Ohio University. We’re Ohio. We liked to be referred to as Ohio. That’s who we are." - John Groce

Victory
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 2:52:38 PM

DayvidGallagher wrote:

OUVan wrote:

At that point I won't watch another D-1, or whatever they will call themselves

D-0? Although since the former D2 is now D1-AA, maybe when leaving D1-A they can become D1-[Whatever comes before A]

This isn't right. The NCAA has 3 divisions and has had that for a long, long time. You have to play all of your sports in the same division. Division 1AA has nothing to do with Division 2 and never has. Division 2 is the same entity that it has been for about 40 or 50 years. 1AA or FCS has been a subdivision of Division 1 (just like 1A or FBS) and only existing in football since about 1977. Division 1 split into 2 subdivisions that are both still part of Division 1 in football. Its the highest revenue and highest expense sport. Not every school that plays sports in Division 1 can afford 80 football scholarships. So 1AA (now called Division 1 Football Championship Subdivision or FCS) is a higher division offering more scholarships in football than Division 2 football and made entirely of schools that simply play in "Division 1" in every other sport. They just have less scholarships in football than 1A or FBS and play in the Division 1 NCAA Football tournament rather than the bowls.

Division 3 is non-scholarship sports
Division 2 is limited scholarship sports (non-major)
Division 1 is major college sports.

Division 1 conferences used to be often referred with high-major, mid-major, and low major monikers. For football high majors would be the BCS AQ leagues. Mid majors are the others in the Football Bowl Subdivison (1A BCS non-AQ - MAC, CUSA, WAC, MWC, Sunbelt). Low-major in football would have referred to 1AA or FCS.

To me the terms mid-major and low-major are going away. A 10-15 years ago you could have thought of mid-major conferences in a sport as those that the champion was going to be in at-large in the NCAA tournament in that sport most years rather it won the conference tournament or not and low-major as the true one bid leagues. But there are so few of these bids now. You are pretty much going to be a "have" in the B10, B12, P12, SEC, ACC or you aren't. The Big East may be left to straddle the line. People talk about parity but it is going away. Quality Programs outside the 5 high-major leagues are going to be rare. Boise State is one in football. Gonzaga is one in basketball. We are making progress toward that in both sports. But it isn't going to be easy.

Last Edited: 9/28/2012 3:33:38 PM by Victory

oucs 1986
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 3:36:09 PM

Victory wrote:

DayvidGallagher wrote:

OUVan wrote:

At that point I won't watch another D-1, or whatever they will call themselves

D-0? Although since the former D2 is now D1-AA, maybe when leaving D1-A they can become D1-[Whatever comes before A]

Division 1 split into 2 subdivisions that are both still part of Division 1 in football. Its the highest revenue and highest expense sport. Not every school that plays sports in Division 1 can afford 80 football scholarships.

Division 1 conferences used to be often referred with high-major, mid-major, and low major monikers. For football high majors would be the BCS AQ leagues. Mid majors are the others in the Football Bowl Subdivison (1A conferences - MAC, CUSA, WAC, MWC, Sunbelt). Low-major in football would have referred to 1AA or FCS.

You are pretty much going to be a "have" in the B10, B12, P12, SEC, ACC or you aren't. The Big East may be left to straddle the line. People talk about parity but it is going away. Quality Programs outside the 5 high-major leagues are going to be rare. Boise State is one in football. Gonzaga is one in basketball. We are making progress toward that in both sports. But it isn't going to be easy.

All of what Victory wrote is correct.

I think the next big change we'll see, that will further split the "haves" from the "have nots" is some sort of cash renumeration to the student-athlete. It could be called a stipend, or whatever, but it doesn't change the fact that in addition to the scholarship 'soft dollars', there would be cash payments to the players.

That would absolutely kill the ability of smaller schools to recruit at the same levels as the larger schools.

It will be presented as "we're just trying to do what's FAIR to everyone involved. The schools make so much money..." etc.

It's been floated in the recent past...
espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7143961/ncaa-weighing-2000-payments-student-athletes

-john

Last Edited: 9/28/2012 3:53:52 PM by oucs 1986

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SouthernCat
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 3:54:38 PM

oucs 1986 wrote:

Victory wrote:

DayvidGallagher wrote:

OUVan wrote:

At that point I won't watch another D-1, or whatever they will call themselves

D-0? Although since the former D2 is now D1-AA, maybe when leaving D1-A they can become D1-[Whatever comes before A]

At some point the BCS schools will break off and be a minor league for the NFL in football. Those layers would have no classroom affiliation with the schools. I doubt Ohio will be able to afford that in any manner.

Robert Fox
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 4:45:40 PM

If they go that route, I hope OU would not want to participate in that.

oucs 1986
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 6:14:45 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

If they go that route, I hope OU would not want to participate in that.

I'm not that broken up about it.

There are kids on campus, now, that receive scholarships..

Sometimes they have so many scholarships that it litterally puts cash in their pockets, too. My buddy Geoff had enough left over after our freshman year that he bought a mini pickup truck, new.

-john

Go Bobcats!

mf279801
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 7:33:55 PM

SouthernCat wrote:

Changes the economics significantly when they're not tax free, and when the practice facilities and stadiums aren't tax free. And I imagine a lot of the state legislatures/trustee boards wouldn't approve

Victory
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 9:25:27 PM

mf279801 wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

I am totally OK with the biggest revenue schools admitting that they are running a business, respecting monopoly and labor laws, and paying the players worth what they are worth on the open market. Then they would be employees rather than students. They would be on campus most of the time but would only need to attend class if they wanted. Now, its just another entity in a sports entertainment business. Heck, if Kentucky Basketball wants to blow its was by signing LeBron James then so be it. Only about 20 or 30 schools could possibly do this. Most of the corruption that is taking the student out of student athlete go away for the rest of college sports at that point. I would consider this to be a good thing for student athletics in general - Even if it gets less exposure. Those that love their school would still be there. We would all still be here.

In fact, THIS, along with the NCAA increasing penalties about 5 fold, are the two possible ways that student athletics starts going back to what it is supposed to be.

However, you know that there are ADs out there that know that they could reduce competitiveness to almost as few teams by setting a rule that a $5000 stipend is allowed. This is a drop in the bucket for Ohio State, Texas, and Florida but kills even some of the AQ conference program's recruiting. I'd say that THIS is the thing that could do the most to increase corruption. It just further blurs the line as to what college athletics are and makes cheating that much easier to cover up. This is almost the worst possible world and hopefully State governments and the Federal government would not stand for a change like that without significantly altering how it looks at them with respect to taxes, monopoly laws, and labor laws. At some point you have to admit that you are running a business rather than a school.

Last Edited: 9/28/2012 9:55:22 PM by Victory

oucs 1986
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 10:29:52 PM

Victory wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

When did a school stop being a business?

-john

Go Bobcats!

Victory
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/28/2012 10:45:14 PM

oucs 1986 wrote:

Victory wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

When did a school stop being a business?

-john

Does your local high school exist to make money? Maybe I should specify a "For Profit"

Last Edited: 9/28/2012 10:47:06 PM by Victory

perimeterpost
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/29/2012 1:50:17 AM

anytime I hear about some changes to the system I ask myself two questions-

1. Do the commissioners of the non-AQ schools have any power to override the will of the AQ schools?
2. Would the coms from the AQ schools ever do anything that was in the best interest of anyone but themselves?

The answer I come to for both questions is always no.

AQ schools and non AQ schools have a precarious relationship- if schools like OSU decide not to play MAC schools then that will mean OSU will actually have to get off their but and play some OOC away games and will have to play much more equally matched competition. This forces them to face a previously unimaginable scenario- what would happen if they lose 2 or more games in September. How would their fans react if their hopes of playing for a national championship were squashed before league play even started?

But the flip side of that scenario is this- trickle down economics trickles down even less to the programs that need it for survival. What would happen to us if there was no longer an annual $850K+ on the schedule? Plus, with all the giants playing each other how could we ever get on TV in a non MACtion game? Would there even be MACtion? And if all we're left with is playing other nonAQ schools how will we ever get the SOS to be ranked or get an opportunity for an upset?

I know we're just talking about OSU at the moment but if all the teams in the 5 AQ confs. colluded to stop playing the non-AQs the magic 8 ball would read- outlook appears grim.

Last Edited: 9/29/2012 1:52:27 AM by perimeterpost

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bostonbobcat
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/30/2012 1:08:55 AM

Victory wrote:

DayvidGallagher wrote:

OUVan wrote:

At that point I won't watch another D-1, or whatever they will call themselves

D-0? Although since the former D2 is now D1-AA, maybe when leaving D1-A they can become D1-[Whatever comes before A]

While most schools have all of their sports in the same division, there are exceptions (all the ones I can think of off the top of my head are hockey).
Merrimack, St. Lawrence, Mercyhurst, Lake Superior St., Ferris St., Alaska, Alaska-Fairbanks, Alabama-Huntsville, St. Cloud St., Minnesota St., Bemidji St., Minn.-Duluth, pretty much all of Atlantic Hockey like Bentley, AIC.

Tim Burke
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RE: O$U may drop some MAC schools

Posted: 9/30/2012 1:35:21 AM

bostonbobcat wrote:

While most schools have all of their sports in the same division, there are exceptions (all the ones I can think of off the top of my head are hockey).

There are other people who would know for sure, but the two sports that mostly have the waivered schools are hockey and lacrosse. Those are by specific NCAA rules. Another waivered school is Dallas Baptist, which is D-II in all sports but baseball (division I).

Ohio '99 EMU '00 USF '08(?)

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