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This quote is pretty telling: "This is one more obscene finger to the 'middle class' of fandom. One more way of saying 'We don't care about you. We care only about the cash." This is a basketball topic but it could also go under the thread about the upcoming football schedule. http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20180228/rob-oller--big-te... Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,598 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 10:46:43 AM  I had posted about this in the "other tournaments" thread. Its not getting rave reviews out here. Although ,last night, the "talking heads" on ESPN were saying some teams weren't too upset since they may be getting an extra week to practice,rest and time to let injured players heal. Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,466 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 11:22:55 AM  Alan Swank wrote: Interesting article about this move for this year and the "treatment of fans." This quote is pretty telling: "This is one more obscene finger to the 'middle class' of fandom. One more way of saying 'We don't care about you. We care only about the cash." This is a basketball topic but it could also go under the thread about the upcoming football schedule. http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20180228/rob-oller--big-te... The big 25 or whatever they are now is already awash in cash. You can't compare it to anything the MAC does. This is the equivalent of a rich man Robbing a bank so his chauffeur can have a chauffeur. The MAC giving deference to TV is like the poor person taking a second job so he can pay his gas bill in the winter. Back to Top Pataskala General User Member Since: 7/8/2010 Location: At least six feet away from anybody else Post Count: 9,363 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 11:47:26 AM  Not a big surprise. The ONLY reason B10/14 annexed Rutgers is to play for the NY market. But my guess is that most NYers still think of the B10/14 as a "cow conference." They may still get the crowds -- it's hard not to in NY -- but I doubt they'll be as enthusiastic as they usually see in Chicago or Indy. We will get by. We will get by. We will get by. We will survive. Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 4,069 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 11:58:22 AM  I mean, I understand the overarching point being made here, but this: "Never mind that New York is a pro sports city mostly uninterested in college basketball — tournament attendance figures will be interesting — the Big Ten wants to promote its product outside of flyover country, where the majority of Big Ten fans reside. Yeah, makes sense." is ridiculous. The old Big East Tournaments at Madison Square Garden are literally legendary. You'd be very hardpressed to argue that there was more interest in Big 10 tournament games in Indianapolis than there were in Big East Tournament games at MSG. Further, St. Johns regularly sells out the Garden despite being -- you know -- St. Johns. And New York's such a pro sports town with attendance issues that the ACC decided to host their tournament in. . .New York. It's also a mistake to think this is about Rutgers. Rutgers wasn't added to the Big Ten because of Rutgers fans in the New York market. Rutgers was added to the Big Ten because of Michigan, Indiana, Penn State, Ohio State, Illinois and Wisconsin fans in the New York market. There are tons of them. In fact, based on LinkedIn's data, there are more Michigan alums in NYC than in Chicago. Ditto Penn State, Rutgers, and Maryland. You've got easily a couple hundred thousand Big Ten alums in New York. I get that it'd be nice if folks could easily travel, but it's not like New York's some random backwater without any Big 10 connections. Back to Top Ohio69 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 3,061 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 12:19:36 PM  Well, I'm glad to see at least one reporter point this out. Not that it will matter. Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?..... Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 4,069 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 12:34:30 PM  Out of curiosity, if there are attendance issues in New York, where's this money that's being grabbed coming from? Is the TV deal different? Is New York paying to host the tournament? Presumably there's more money to be made in New York than in Indianapolis. Why? Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,598 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 12:44:22 PM  Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: I mean, I understand the overarching point being made here, but this: "Never mind that New York is a pro sports city mostly uninterested in college basketball — tournament attendance figures will be interesting — the Big Ten wants to promote its product outside of flyover country, where the majority of Big Ten fans reside. Yeah, makes sense." is ridiculous. The old Big East Tournaments at Madison Square Garden are literally legendary. You'd be very hardpressed to argue that there was more interest in Big 10 tournament games in Indianapolis than there were in Big East Tournament games at MSG. Further, St. Johns regularly sells out the Garden despite being -- you know -- St. Johns. And New York's such a pro sports town with attendance issues that the ACC decided to host their tournament in. . .New York. It's also a mistake to think this is about Rutgers. Rutgers wasn't added to the Big Ten because of Rutgers fans in the New York market. Rutgers was added to the Big Ten because of Michigan, Indiana, Penn State, Ohio State, Illinois and Wisconsin fans in the New York market. There are tons of them. In fact, based on LinkedIn's data, there are more Michigan alums in NYC than in Chicago. Ditto Penn State, Rutgers, and Maryland. You've got easily a couple hundred thousand Big Ten alums in New York. I get that it'd be nice if folks could easily travel, but it's not like New York's some random backwater without any Big 10 connections. As someone who lives 20 minutes from Manhattan let me offer my take on this. 1.This is a pro sports area in terms of football. With the exception of Notre Dame,there was/is never a problem getting a ticket to college games at Giants/Met Life Stadium. Same thing,other then alums,you don't see locals at the Pinstripe Bowl. 2.As far as Rutgers football,usually,at their B1G home games,there are more fans for the opponents. Once the game is out of reach,what RU fans there are,are gone. 3.College basketball is big in the area,especially when St.John's and Seton Hall are doing well. When the Knicks are dong well,they do outdraw college teams. But its been a while since that was the case. 4.It was an open secret that one of the "selling points" made by Rutgers to get into the B1G was an T.V. expanded market,including for BTN. This was apparently stressed by their former A.D. (Pernetti) who was a media guy. Apparently,the B1G has a requirement that local cable and other media providers offer BTN and have to pay a fee per subscriber. Pernittia was forced out,before RU joined the B1G,so he never got the credit for The move. As a college football and wrestling fan, Rutgers joining the B1G lets me see a lot of great* college football and wrestling close to home. *great if you hate Rutgers Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,852 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 1:24:16 PM  A Bucknut lamenting the influence of money on the B1G and college sports in general is particularly rich. Cry me a river. Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,466 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 3:37:23 PM  Recovering Journalist wrote: A Bucknut lamenting the influence of money on the B1G and college sports in general is particularly rich. Cry me a river. Boom. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,213 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 7:26:45 PM  I think everyone has missed the point I was trying to say. One of my takeaways from the article was that "Joe and Josephine" average fan don't matter to the powers that be and that is the vibe I'm currently getting from the Convo based on this most recently announced football schedule and at least the last three years of preseason basketball schedules against teams from schools that Howdy Doody could get into. Back to Top cbus cat fan General User Member Since: 12/2/2011 Post Count: 1,169 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 9:56:45 PM  It is almost as if some in college basketball, including some Big Ten movers and shakers have kidnapped Doc Brown and got him to take them back to 1985. This time instead of Hill Valley they are in New York City at the height of the Big East. The Big Ten of all people pandering at the Garden? Do they think it will make Big Ten basketball relevant in the Big Apple? A lot has changed since 1985, college sports has peaked. Yet we still have some folks (as in that DePaul story on another thread) that think if they just built this building, had this kind of a scoreboard, or had a certain kind of promotion everyone would come back like the gold old days. Even some folks on this board have made similar claims. The internet, I phones, a host of video products, and other media have made their appearance and exploded since 1985. Sports and cable television in general don't hold the same allure that it once did. As you may have noticed, I love talking about the old days in the 1980s, especially 1985 and 1986 when I never missed a game at the Convo. However, that was a different era. I keep thinking of something Giacomo wrote in another thread about salaries. While we have more TV revenue than what we had in the 1980s, we don't have the TV viewership we once did, or the attendance that we one did in college basketball. Yet look at the salaries. Something has got to give. The scandals and all of the social media hoopla have caused many to take a step back. Why can't we just enjoy college basketball for what it is and quit trying to make it a mini-NBA? giacomo wrote: Many good points in this thread. I keep coming back to this: When I lived in Ann Arbor the university published the salaries of all U of Michigan employees. This was 1982 and Bo Schembechler made 100k. The university president made 105k and the basketball coach made something less, let's say 90k. At 3.5% inflation Bo's salary today is 345k. Guess what? Jim Harbaugh's salary is 9 MILLION and John Beilein is 2.84M! . . . Last Edited: 3/1/2018 10:06:04 PM by cbus cat fan Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,752 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/1/2018 11:19:52 PM  Alan Swank wrote: I think everyone has missed the point I was trying to say. One of my takeaways from the article was that "Joe and Josephine" average fan don't matter to the powers that be and that is the vibe I'm currently getting from the Convo based on this most recently announced football schedule and at least the last three years of preseason basketball schedules against teams from schools that Howdy Doody could get into. I read several of your posts about this general issue to my wife, Alan, and she said she agreed completely with you. She thinks OHIO fans should start a boycott. In the last few years, she has only continued to go to games to keep me company. She's not been a happy camper for the very reasons you are pointing out. She has said many, many times that the AD's office cares nothing for the fans anymore. She is very disgusted. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,213 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/2/2018 7:27:10 AM  OhioCatFan wrote: Alan Swank wrote: I think everyone has missed the point I was trying to say. One of my takeaways from the article was that "Joe and Josephine" average fan don't matter to the powers that be and that is the vibe I'm currently getting from the Convo based on this most recently announced football schedule and at least the last three years of preseason basketball schedules against teams from schools that Howdy Doody could get into. I read several of your posts about this general issue to my wife, Alan, and she said she agreed completely with you. She thinks OHIO fans should start a boycott. In the last few years, she has only continued to go to games to keep me company. She's not been a happy camper for the very reasons you are pointing out. She has said many, many times that the AD's office cares nothing for the fans anymore. She is very disgusted. My wife quit going so I reduced my basketball tickets from 4 to 1 this year as well as the requisite bobcatclub contribution. I still enjoy the game because nice people sit in my area although they do stand for d. :) Back to Top shabamon General User Member Since: 11/17/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 6,851 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/2/2018 10:21:23 AM  Not to derail this thread, but I'm not mad at our AD about our football schedule. That ire is pointed at the MAC office. I think we're doing what we can to get an attractive, yet winnable slate of games in the OOC. Say what you will about FCS games or Texas State/UMass, but home/home contracts with KU, UC, and Iowa State show to me that they're trying. For basketball, yes, I too would like to see fewer MEAC/SWAC buy games, but I think the league's minimum home game mandate restricts how many home/home deals we can get with the A10, Horizon, OVC, C-USA, etc. I'm positive it's why you see Central and Eastern schedule four non-D1 games a year. Last Edited: 3/2/2018 10:22:48 AM by shabamon Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,752 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/2/2018 10:36:26 AM  shabamon wrote: Not to derail this thread, but I'm not mad at our AD about our football schedule. That ire is pointed at the MAC office. I think we're doing what we can to get an attractive, yet winnable slate of games in the OOC. Say what you will about FCS games or Texas State/UMass, but home/home contracts with KU, UC, and Iowa State show to me that they're trying. For basketball, yes, I too would like to see fewer MEAC/SWAC buy games, but I think the league's minimum home game mandate restricts how many home/home deals we can get with the A10, Horizon, OVC, C-USA, etc. I'm positive it's why you see Central and Eastern schedule four non-D1 games a year. To quote GETOUTofMACNow (or whatever his alias was),"The MAC sucks!" The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top OhioStunter General User Member Since: 2/18/2005 Location: Chicago Post Count: 2,516 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/2/2018 11:03:20 AM  I think the point about the fan experience is a good one and I'd like to try to diagnose the problem into two areas: 1. The actual game experience -Everything about Peden and the Convo is not fan-friendly. From odd security to parking confusion to concessions to weird seating/ticketing issues to in-game operations choices, many long-time fans have been turned off by this. That is 100% fixable for the Athletics Department if they'd just listen to a smart and supportive set of fans. 2. Scheduling -Scheduling for FB and basketball seems to be based on a variety of factors -- "money" games that can be competitive, easier OOC to try to get some wins for bowl/post-season padding, working around dates that are mandated by the MAC/TV. I don't foresee this changing dramatically anytime soon, because the world is changing and money does drive sports. As I've mentioned before, I would like to see a better effort to schedule road games in heavy alumni areas to help re-connect alums with OU. It's been a long time since OU has been to the Chicago area. Back to Top bobcat2nc General User Member Since: 12/28/2004 Post Count: 584 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/3/2018 10:19:47 PM  Alan Swank wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Alan Swank wrote: I think everyone has missed the point I was trying to say. One of my takeaways from the article was that "Joe and Josephine" average fan don't matter to the powers that be and that is the vibe I'm currently getting from the Convo based on this most recently announced football schedule and at least the last three years of preseason basketball schedules against teams from schools that Howdy Doody could get into. I read several of your posts about this general issue to my wife, Alan, and she said she agreed completely with you. She thinks OHIO fans should start a boycott. In the last few years, she has only continued to go to games to keep me company. She's not been a happy camper for the very reasons you are pointing out. She has said many, many times that the AD's office cares nothing for the fans anymore. She is very disgusted. My wife quit going so I reduced my basketball tickets from 4 to 1 this year as well as the requisite bobcatclub contribution. I still enjoy the game because nice people sit in my area although they do stand for d. :) We did not buy FB tickets this year. I bought BB tickets after the season started. Went to 2 games. For 20 years we scheduled around Bobcat BB and FB. We have more time and funds to do fun things than ever. We both have a “meh” attitude and probably won’t be season ticket holders or Bobcat Club members again. The argumentative tone and absolutism of BA hasn’t helped my enthusiasm level. I can read that nonsense in the letters to the editor by tOSU fans in the Sunday Dispatch. I would like to wish us the best in our future endeavors. Back to Top FearLeon General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 4,703 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/4/2018 7:55:02 AM  If I were a Big 10 coach who made it to the Big Dance, I would not want to wait 11-13 days before playing my 1st Round NCAA Tourney game. That has disaster written all over it. #BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,716 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/4/2018 9:27:12 AM  Hopefully it is a one year deal. Moved up to get it out East and avoid other conferences tournaments. In an already weak BIG they really risk a lot putting those teams in that position. never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,213 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/4/2018 10:05:50 AM  bobcat2nc wrote: Alan Swank wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Alan Swank wrote: I think everyone has missed the point I was trying to say. One of my takeaways from the article was that "Joe and Josephine" average fan don't matter to the powers that be and that is the vibe I'm currently getting from the Convo based on this most recently announced football schedule and at least the last three years of preseason basketball schedules against teams from schools that Howdy Doody could get into. I read several of your posts about this general issue to my wife, Alan, and she said she agreed completely with you. She thinks OHIO fans should start a boycott. In the last few years, she has only continued to go to games to keep me company. She's not been a happy camper for the very reasons you are pointing out. She has said many, many times that the AD's office cares nothing for the fans anymore. She is very disgusted. My wife quit going so I reduced my basketball tickets from 4 to 1 this year as well as the requisite bobcatclub contribution. I still enjoy the game because nice people sit in my area although they do stand for d. :) We did not buy FB tickets this year. I bought BB tickets after the season started. Went to 2 games. For 20 years we scheduled around Bobcat BB and FB. We have more time and funds to do fun things than ever. We both have a “meh” attitude and probably won’t be season ticket holders or Bobcat Club members again. The argumentative tone and absolutism of BA hasn’t helped my enthusiasm level. I can read that nonsense in the letters to the editor by tOSU fans in the Sunday Dispatch. I would like to wish us the best in our future endeavors. What 2nc stated here is telling. If loyal fans - those who have attended and paid for 20 or more years are leaving, how many not so loyal folks are doing the same. And before DFC or one of his ilk start commenting about complainers, I'll say this. There are two types of complainers - those who complain and just complain and those who complain and do something about it/take action. Obviously 2nc and others fall into the latter category and that should be of some concern to the powers that be. Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,716 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/5/2018 11:50:58 AM  backpedaling and a mea culpa from this beat writer https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/201... / never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,598 Status: Offline     RE: Big 10 to NY and a money grab    Posted: 3/5/2018 12:18:06 PM  bornacatfan wrote: backpedaling and a mea culpa from this beat writer https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/201... / Wash the reporter's mouth out with soap for mentioning The Garden and Barclays in the same sentence. The Garden may be older,but it has history and atmosphere. It also has unobstructed sight lines. Its is easy to get to.Both for locals and "out of towners". There is a lot to do in the area,beside the arena,including Broadway,plus plenty of hotels and restaurants. Barclays is impossible to get to. Its only 25 miles from my house. Google Maps says it should take 35 minutes. Maybe by helicopter. I don't know anyone who did better then 1 1/2 hours. Mass transit is worse. Nothing to do in the area,no hotels,at least the last time I was there a few years ago. Not the best neighborhood,despite how they try to market it. 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