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Topic: Game 5

Topic: Game 5

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Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 11:21:36 AM

He quit.

In retrospect, Cleveland never had a chance. Add up the way that he quit in Game 5 (his new nickname) and the way that he pealed off his jersey in the hallway to the locker room after game 7 and the expression on his face as he pealed off the jersey--one of relief and finality.

He was gone the whole time.

Why did he go? For his own selfish reasons. He has everything--money, fame, etc.--except a ring. He could have been a stud, a legend and stayed in Cleveland to win a title (or several). So why did he leave? Purely for his own self. He had it all in Cleveland. He only left because he selfish he had to go where he felt the odds are better for his selfish self to immediately win a title.

Stain (one of his other new nicknames) tarnished his reputation in the past few weeks in ways that he will never be able to undo: Game 5 and last night's show and last night's decision. One of the columnists on Cleveland.com noted that last nights incredibly overblown show was named The Decision--so similar to The Fumble, The Drive, etc. What an ass to go on selfish national tv for an entire hour in a horridly named show to drive a dagger in the hearts in the city.

May he never win a title. May everyone always remember: He quit in Game 5 and he quit last night.

That is who he is and that is his legacy: Quitter (another of his new nicknames).

Game 5. He quit.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 11:32:08 AM

I honestly do not blame him for leaving. He wants to win championships and having Wade and Bosh on your side makes his path that much easier.

I just dont like the way he went about it. That was what killed me the most. Really, dude? You're gonna get on national TV and just drive that stake further and further into our hearts? Damn...

Sad thing is, and I'm not joking here, Cleveland police better be on suicide watch for the next couple of days, weeks, or months. Not funny, because that's how passionate and ridiculous some fans take sports.

perimeterpost
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 3,165

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 11:47:39 AM

there's two parts to this- the What and the the How.

The What- him leaving, is just cowardly. I've read others say- would Jordan leave the Bulls in 1990 to go to the Pistons? LBJ said he that now he wouldn't feel pressure to score 30ppg. Would Jordan ever complain about thst responsibilty? He tried to get Bosh to Cleveland which suggests he would have stayed if that happened. Can you imagine Jordan, or Bird, or Kobe, or Magic, etc. following Bosh? He wants all the fame of a superstar, but he doesn't want the responsibility.

The How- dragging Cleveland through this self indulgent process and then dumping them on national TV like a humiliating episode of Jerry Springer was selfish, classless, and completely uncalled for. This could have been handled MUCH differently.

What a coward.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

MedinaCat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Lakewood, OH
Post Count: 743

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 1:00:29 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

That was out there in the media but never confirmed. The fact that LBJ had zero contact with the Cavs since last Saturday suggests to me that this was speculation and rumor. James always wanted to be the next "Jordan," but it turns out he is really the next "Pippen."

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 1:32:10 PM

James always wanted to be the next "Jordan," but it turns out he is really the next "Pippen."

Nice line, MedicaCat.

Game 5 is exactly the opposite of Jordan.

Game 5 quit.

Jughead
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Location: Chillicothe, OH
Post Count: 478

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 3:07:04 PM

Who are we talking about and why is it important to OHIO Basketball?

Rooting for Akron is like cheering on the Taliban.

ytownbobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/7/2006
Post Count: 1,253

Status: Offline

RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 3:28:59 PM

I have to agree that there is no relevance to Ohio athletics. The site is so nice and clean since the data dump. Wouldn't it be wonderful to keep it focused too?

Jeff McKinney
Moderator

Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,155

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 3:55:41 PM

That's like the beauty pageant contests saying they're gonna work for world peace...

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 4:00:54 PM

Could be a topic near the heart of many on this board. And a big issue. If nothing else, it's basketball.

Yes, not OHIO ball. But still worthy.

Ohio Hoops
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Member Since: 7/18/2006
Location: Richmond, VA
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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 4:58:26 PM

Personally I'm interested in how upset Cleveland fans would be if he had gone anywhere other than Miami. If he had gone to say New Jersey or Chicago where an entire team is built around him to win instead of joining Wade's team in Miami I wonder if the reaction would be like this. He still shouldn't have made such a spectacle of it especially if he knew he would be leaving his home town team.

BobcatGman
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Member Since: 7/7/2010
Location: Albany, OH
Post Count: 252

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 7:05:45 PM

Lost some respect for Lebron lastnight, I've followed his career since High School, I understand he wants to win a Championship, but he just went about it the wrong way. He gave up and sold Cleveland out. As far as Cleveland Fans, they would of been pissed no matter where he went to play, Poor Cleveland Fans they have had to deal with "The Drive", "The Fumble" ,The Shot" and now "The Betrayal".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dennis "Gman" DON'T FLINCH !!!

ytownbobcat
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Member Since: 8/7/2006
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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 7:12:27 PM

Not sure this is a worthy topic for this board. There are a zillion other sites sites for this . If you want to know what Cleveland fans think try Clevelandlive.com . Its being done to death.
Most people visit this board to get Bobcat scoop and news. Not to read messages between 15-20 people that dominate the board with personal opinions or message to one another.
I personally don't want to open links that are nothing more than mindless drivel. Lets try to be focused.
If you want to BS with your buddies do it in your own forum, not here.

Old Zone
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Member Since: 2/28/2005
Location: Rocky River, OH
Post Count: 266

Status: Offline

RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 9:05:29 PM

Who's LeBron????????????????????

Big Willy
General User

Member Since: 12/29/2004
Post Count: 195

Status: Offline

RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/9/2010 11:21:01 PM

I'm not sure why people call him selfish. He wants to win championships. So does every athlete. He was a free agent and had a chance to improve his chances to win. The Cavs tried but they really didn't do much over the years to help him. Bird had Parrish and McHale, so you can't say he did it by himself. Magic had Kareem and Worthy, so he didn't do it himself. Kobe had Shaq in his prime and now has a much better team than LeBron had in Cleveland. LeBron didn't even have a Scottie Pippen. He is going where he will no longer be "the" guy. He is taking less money than he would have made in Cleveland. When Miami wins their championships many people will say Wade was the main reason they won. That doesn't sound like he is being selfish. If simply wanting to win championships is being selfish, then I guess he is selfish. But I don't agree with the way he went about it.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 2:38:23 AM

Okay. Either I'm an idiot or ...well, let's just say that there's a difference in values.

Game 5 owes northeastern Ohio in a big way. He's been treated like a king alright. The fans and the team bent over backward for him--as they have since the quitter was about 16 years old. Everything he could get elsewhere he could get in Cleveland. The only diff might be in his chances of winning a title. Maybe those chances are better in Miami or in some other city that isn't Cleveland.

But that ring thing is all about him. He shows no responsibility, no class, no grace, no sense that he is a cornerstone of a community. Even from a personal point of view, how big of a legend would he be in Cleveland and elsewhere if he could bring a title to Cleveland?!

Now if he wins a title--which I hope will never happen--let's all lay it to Wade and Bosh. Poor Game 5 had two have two other stars. He just ain't man enough himself.

Yeah, Michael Jordan would've quit in that fifth game against the Celtics.

How ironic. Game 5 says he made his decision for himself in a quest for a ring--while in the process he lost, and will probably never regain, his rather sterling reputation. He may win a ring but he'll never be a champion.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 2:40:07 AM

I guess he's really forever departed but I'd sure like to hear borna's take on this.

Flomo-genized
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 574

Status: Offline

RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 8:23:16 AM

If LeBron is a quitter and a loser, why are you clearly so upset about losing him Monroe? You should be happy to be rid of him.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 1:56:34 PM

Flomo-genized wrote:

If LeBron is a quitter and a loser, why are you clearly so upset about losing him Monroe? You should be happy to be rid of him.

True. I mean when you're old, feeble parents die then you should be really happy about that.

Do you have any idea what Game 5 meant to Cleveland? Do you have any concept of how economically and mentally beaten down that city is? Your comment shows that you don't understand the special circumstances here at all.

Even if you didn't grow up in Cleve and have never been there, did you get a sense at all of the heart-wrenching magnitude of the Quitter's choice? This meant A WHOLE LOT to the city. (A vague parallel: Was there a little excitement on this board last year when that tall basketball kid made a recruiting visit to Athens?)

Would this decision circus have been as meaningful to Chicago or to Dallas or to Seattle? No. But this is a special, once in a lifetime case.

This is a guy who had a chance to lift up a whole city at no cost to himself. In fact, he would have benefitted so much: Win a title for Cleveland and you are a legend for all time.

Now he's just another mercenary who quit and who needs to ride other stars coat tails to win a championship that will not be special in any way.

Flomo-genized
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Post Count: 574

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 2:34:44 PM

LBJ isn't obligated to spend his entire career in Cleveland; professional athletes are no longer indentured servants. He gave the city seven years of success unparalled in franchise history, and helped to generate hundreds of millions of dollars for the team and the city. I understand the disappointment, and agree that this entire situation could have been handled much better, but at the end of the day you are demanding that LBJ show absolute loyalty to Cleveland, when Cleveland has since shown that its loyalty to him is clearly fleeting.

Last Edited: 7/10/2010 2:48:20 PM by Flomo-genized

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 3:56:40 PM

Game 5 showed absolute loyalty to Cleveland? Have you lost your senses?

He demanded and got carte blance from the Cavs organization (bad move..prob helped their own undoing) and the city. He flat on sh*t on the city in the end, with an excellent itsallaboutme national tv final dump.

Flomo--Are you from or have you spent much time in Northeastern Ohio? I'm guessing not. Otherwise you would understand the blow that this is. I haven't lived in the city for 30 years. But I get it.

Again, there is nothing the Quitter could get in Miami or any other city that he could not get in Cleveland.

Hell, no one would be that upset if he had decided to move to Miami but still play in Cleveland.

I hope he finds living in Northeastern Ohio to be really, really unpleasant.

Flomo-genized
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 574

Status: Offline

RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 4:19:37 PM

I never said he showed absolute loyalty to Cleveland. I said you are demanding that he show absolute loyalty to a town that turned its back on him with unprecedented venom the second he elected to "take his talents" elsewhere.

Again, I understand the impact of LBJ's decision and why the city is disappointed. But that does not mean that LBJ should be obligated to spend his entire career in Cleveland. And it is not true that Cleveland offered LBJ everything that Miami did. Cleveland could not offer him the opportunity to play along side two of the other elite players in the league, who just so happened to be two of his friends. Now we can of course debate whether that justifies the decision, but at the end of the day its his decision to make, not yours nor the city of Cleveland's.

This is all particularly ironic coming from a guy who admits that he himself left Cleveland for another city years ago. Apparently it's ok for Monroe Slavin to decide to do so, but unacceptable for LeBron James.

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 6:05:23 PM

Flomo-genized wrote:

Flomo, I don't always agree with you but until now I always thought that there was sound reasoning to your arguments.

Ya can't use after the fact ire on the part of Clevelanders to say that they were not perfectly loyal to him before he quit. In fact (well, sorta), the depth of the post-quit ire only goes to show the depth of the feeling Cleveland had for Game 5. Remember, until he Quit in Game 5, there was never any significant noise from Cleveland about his inability to help bring a title in.

And I don't think the analogy between me leaving Cleveland (probably a benefit to the city) and the effect of Game 5's quitting the city is quite the same. The Quitter's quitting will have a slightly greater impact financially and from a mental health/state of mind perspec tive.

No, Game 5 has no obligation at all from a contractual/legal standpoint. Some of us might think that loyalty and class and grace have some meaning....that it's not he or she who dies with the most toys or rings that wins.

At least Art Modell could color his hike out with a claim of financial exigency. Game 5 Quit merely for personal reasons...and really poorly thought out ones at that.

p.s. I did misread your post a bit above; you did not say that Game 5 owed absolute loyalty to Cleveland.

Last Edited: 7/10/2010 6:10:19 PM by Monroe Slavin

Flomo-genized
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 574

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 7:03:28 PM

Monroe Slavin, CPA wrote:

Ya can't use after the fact ire on the part of Clevelanders to say that they were not perfectly loyal to him before he quit.

I never said the fans were not loyal to him before he left. However, when fans are able to turn on someone so dramatically and so quickly, it shows that they weren't truly loyal to the player. It was never about supporting LBJ as a person for most Cleveland fans, it was simply about what LBJ could do for them. Once the promise of a championship vanished, so did any support for the player. That's completely understandable, but at the same time it is hard to argue that a player should place loyalty to a city over his own personal interests, when the fans of said city are so willing to turn on the player so dramatically and quickly.

Monroe Slavin, CPA wrote:

And I don't think the analogy between me leaving Cleveland (probably a benefit to the city) and the effect of Game 5's quitting the city is quite the same. The Quitter's quitting will have a slightly greater impact financially and from a mental health/state of mind perspec tive.

Undoubtedly the departure of LBJ has a greater impact on the greater Cleveland region than your departure. However, the point remains that if you decided that another city offered more to you than Cleveland, it is kind of hypocritical to argue that it is incomprehensible and unacceptable that LBJ would make the same decision.

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 9:08:32 PM

Are you saying, Flomo, that fans lost faith in the chance for a championship and in Game 5 before he made his decision to leave? Not so.

C'mon. I never even thought that my leaving the city would have any impact of any kind on anyone other than my immediate family. Game 5 knew that the psychological and economic of his quit would be as big as anything anyone could imagine. The two situations are in no way comparable. It's an absurd comparison.

Of the things which are conceivable (so exclude war, earthquakes, etc) what could be a bigger blow to Northeastern Ohio than the Quitter quitting?

Flomo-genized
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 574

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RE: Game 5

Posted: 7/10/2010 9:48:54 PM

We seem to be talking around each other, and considering that I never really even cared that much about LBJ's decision in the first place, this will be my last post on the subject.

I'm not saying that the fans turned their backs on LBJ before he left. I'm saying that most Cleveland fans only cared about what LBJ could do for them (i.e. championships and economic impact), and not about him as a person or his personal best interests. As long as LBJ remained in Cleveland they would support him, but if he dared to leave they would hate him. That isn't loyalty. As a result, I don't think LBJ owned it to the people of Cleveland to place their collective interests ahead of his own personal interests.

You are also completely missing my point about your leaving Cleveland. The point is not that your departure was anywhere near the same magnitude. Rather, the point is simply that you find it inconceiveable that another city could offer something unavailable to LBJ in Cleveland, yet you yourself have decided to live elsewhere than Cleveland. Therefore, you should appreciate that different cities have different appeal to different people. It is hypocritical for you to say that there isn't anything in Miami that LBJ couldn't get in Cleveland, when you yourself have chosen to live elsewhere.

As for other events that would deal a bigger blow to Cleveland than LBJ's departure, for starters I'm pretty sure that losing any of the major companies headquartered in the city (Progressive, Sherwin-Williams, etc.) would have much more significant implications for the region.

Last Edited: 7/10/2010 9:50:36 PM by Flomo-genized

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