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Topic: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Topic: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

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Kevin Finnegan
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Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 1,169

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John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/7/2010 10:24:05 AM

The NCAA just released the academic progress rates of every NCAA basketball and football coaches (among other sports), and John Groce's athletes performed below the average the first two years. Hopefully this is a trend that reverses, as I would hope we're recruiting athletes who can perform in the classroom as well.

Link:
http://web1.ncaa.org/coachAprSearch/exec/searchSelectActi...

Here's Tim O'Shea's scores:
http://web1.ncaa.org/coachAprSearch/exec/searchSelectActi...

Ohio Hoops
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Member Since: 7/18/2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Post Count: 173

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RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/7/2010 12:36:09 PM

I could be wrong about this but I believe a new coach's scores are attributable to whatever the previous coach was doing at a school. Groce only has a few recruits that he actually recruited at this school and the rest are TOS recruits. So the two year numbers may say more about TOS than Groce but like I said I very well could be wrong.

Voice of Reason
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Member Since: 7/28/2010
Post Count: 249

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RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/7/2010 2:20:44 PM

Don't jump to conclusions finnOhio. "Any head coach who is in place at any point during an academic year (August 1-July 31) is assigned that team’s APR for that year." Groce is only assigned to the 2007-2008 APR score because he took over on June 27, 2008, within that specified academic year. If he takes over a little over a month later, then he wouldn't be assigned to the score for that year.

Coach Groce is not falling short academically! The 2008-2009 APR score of 926 is not only above the NCAA threshold of 925 but is a jump up from the 910 that was mostly under Tim O'Shea in 2007-2008. He may be short of the average APR score, but with the recent graduation of Sayles, KVK, and Adetunji, that score is sure to continue increasing.

Coach Groce in on point on and off the court!

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/7/2010 8:02:07 PM

It's difficult to argue with the Voice of Reason.

I didn't even know that Coach was taking classes.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

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RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/9/2010 12:12:10 PM

How much do player transfers affect this? Within a very short time we lost Mo Pearson, Frankie Dobbs, Stacy Waters, and Big Canada.

tdcz756
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Member Since: 1/28/2007
Location: Up North, OH
Post Count: 64

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RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/9/2010 12:38:44 PM

If they left in good academic standing and enrolled in another institution there is no penalty. We paid for all 4 years of Big Canada's ride. Horne will hurt the APR, the rest you listed will not. Not sure how Bassett shakes out with the draft situation. Suspect that since he entered the draft and somehow got eligible to come back that he will not hurt either.

OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
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RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/9/2010 12:44:55 PM

tdcz756 wrote:

Suspect that since he entered the draft and somehow got eligible to come back that he will not hurt either.

What do you mean by that?

Andrew Ruck
General User

Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 5,237

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RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/9/2010 1:10:53 PM

I am guessing the time AB was enrolled here (Wnter 09 - Winter 10) definitely had some sort of negative effect on our academic performance.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,597

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RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/9/2010 3:10:42 PM

OUVan wrote:

How much do player transfers affect this? Within a very short time we lost Mo Pearson, Frankie Dobbs, Stacy Waters, and Big Canada.

Canada still goes here, not sure how a situation like that is factored in.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Voice of Reason
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Member Since: 7/28/2010
Post Count: 249

Status: Offline

RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/9/2010 7:05:19 PM

Here is how the APR is calculated. Based on the formula you can tell how the score would be impacted with players leaving or becoming academically ineligible. The people that transferred would cause us to lose at least one point and 2 if the left in poor academic standing. We didn't have any players transfer this year and only one left without graduating. So as long as everyone remains academically eligible this season, our APR score should have a big jump! The APR can be calculated by anyone and much like a balance sheet is the current indicator of the programs academic and retention success. Hopefully this clears up any questions remaining.

"The APR is calculated by allocating points for eligibility and retention -- the two factors that research identifies as the best indicators of graduation. Each player on a given roster earns a maximum of two points per term, one for being academically eligible and one for staying with the institution. A team's APR is the total points of a team's roster at a given time divided by the total points possible. Since this results in a decimal number, the CAP decided to multiply it by 1,000 for ease of reference. Thus, a raw APR score of .925 translates into the 925 that will become the standard terminology."

Voice of Reason
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Member Since: 7/28/2010
Post Count: 249

Status: Offline

RE: John Groce falls short in first two years academically...

Posted: 8/9/2010 7:06:44 PM

The departure of Horne and Kinney has already been absorbed as the APR is calculated from semester to semester.

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