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Ohio Basketball

Topic: Excessive Fouls

Topic: Excessive Fouls

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Ohio Here
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
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Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/17/2010 12:19:13 AM

Apparently there is an emphasis this year for refs to call the game by the book, which means a lot more fouls will be called, as we saw against Oakland. I just got done watching the Tennessee/Belmont game and there were 50+ fouls called, many of them "touchy" calls.

We might as well get used it to it and hope the players adjust.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/17/2010 9:40:31 AM

Personally I think the game needs cleaned up some.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

FearLeon
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/17/2010 11:23:45 AM

The refs are out of control. I've watched a ton of games on TV the past week and they are calling it way too tight. Case in point...K-State's Pullen had 3 fouls in the first 3 minutes last night against VA Tech. I think most of these refs just want to get face time on TV.

Let the fellas play!!!

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

Ohio Here
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/17/2010 12:50:39 PM

John C. Wanamaker wrote:

Personally I think the game needs cleaned up some.

Possibly, but basketball is also a contact sport. I'd rather see a physical game where guys are getting pushed around than 59 fouls in 40 minutes.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/17/2010 8:16:29 PM

never said it was not a physical game, but some of these games more closely resemble rugby than basketball.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Ohio Here
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/17/2010 9:09:03 PM

I must be seeing different games.

Much better refs tonight for the UT/MSU game. Actually let them play and the game was much smoother and all around better played.

tiptondevilcat
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/18/2010 9:05:58 AM

I am really happy they are choosing this as a point of emphasis. The game has been progressing more toward strength and less toward skill for quite some time. If you watcned Dayton in the NIT last year it was a show of pure strength winning out. Not very skilled players at any position.

Where is the reward for practicing dribbling skills if you put a 6'2 225 athletic guard on a kid like DJ Cooper and eat him up physically all night long? Where is the reward for practicing Jump Shots when you run a kid at Freeman while he is up in the air and body him up or push him into the bench?

Coaches since the late 80's have moved toward Ray Meyer's DePaul and Denny Crum's Louisville models where you recruit athletes and teach them to play basketball. The reward for being a skilled player who may not be as athletic is much too little to bridge the gap the way the game has been called in recent times. I am not even going to broach the subject of baskeball knowledge in this conversation as there is NO reward at this point for being a smart player. Where a player knew enough to kick the ball out when he was surrounded in the lane he simply now tries to throw down on 3 guys. Not very satisfying to me as a fan. I applaud the effort to get back to basketball basics and bridge that gap that rewards smart, skilled team play over ugly basketball. Call what is there and the players and cuaches will adjust while the fans learn to relax while this thing sorts itself out and we can get closer to what what Naismith called the team sport of basketball and less of what the Freaks that call themselves the NBA leaves us with their isolations and one on one play while 4 guys stand waiting for their turn.

Last Edited: 11/18/2010 9:07:55 AM by tiptondevilcat

anorris
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/18/2010 1:00:30 PM

Well said, devilcat.

Ohio Here
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/18/2010 1:12:19 PM

I'd much rather watch the WVU's and Michigan State's of the world, where you better be a man if you wanna play. Basketball is a physical game and if the refs start taking that away, it's going to end up like Euro ball.

"Hands off please" "Don't box out too hard, you'll hurt him!"

Doc Bobcat
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/18/2010 1:59:01 PM

West Virginia over Davidson in the Puerto Rico classic.

Total fouls for the game.........67.

tiptondevilcat
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/18/2010 2:01:56 PM

Whispers In The Dark wrote:

If that is your preference that is fine. When Kentucky bloodied Jerry West's nose as he played for the father of the current OU athletic director the game was plenty physical. Rupp still had that towel according to some reports and said Jerry West was the toughest player he had ever seen. That was 1959 my young friend. No one is saying hands off but if one were to take great shooters like Rick Mount or Maravich and plug them into today's game they would be hard pressed to compete despite their substantial skills. There is a fine line between banging physically for 40 minutes and taking hard shots each time down the court as opposed to rewarding skill sets that a player can develope. One type of player who goes out and physically abuses the man he is defending is a negative in my eyes as opposed to a positive which is the guy who has worked countless hours perfecting a crossover or behind the back dribble or a post move or his skill from behind the arc. One just tears thins down while the other has invested in himself. There needs to be a reward for that and the current game only favors the strong who are more of a disruptive force rather than the skilled who leave their signature on the game.

One of the sad things is when guys like you who could not last 5 minutes on a court with most these players tries to poo poo the game and anyone who studies it in depth and not understand what the goal of the Points of Emphasis are. My guess is you also revere the guy on each hockey team would be known as the "enforcer". You probably yell when the gloves are dropped and fail to appreciate the guys who can skate circles and pass the puck with great skill.

From the sidelines you oversimplify and say "hands off please" to suck people into an emotional argument. That is grossly mis stating and paraphrasing what I tried to communicate. I am not implying that a touch foul be called in the former NON CONTACT sport we call basketball. I am saying that the trade off of strength and skill the activity needs to find a balance. The Euro game is currently way more appealing to me (and obviously a lot of the world)., than the current Pro game here in the states. If you think the Euros call the game like you inferred above you have not been watching enough overseas games. I think we are done her because my experience on various boards says this will be met with a personal attack and more inferences that show no thought process or understanding of the finer points of the game. Also the fact that the rules committee and those who are entrusted with the direction of the game have spent countless hours discussing these ideas is probably lost on people who enjoy fights and beat downs. Let me leave you with this thought. In the arms race that is college basketball the only way an Ohio, Gonzaga or Butler can compete against the Georgetowns, Ohio States and SEC schools with big wide bodies is to find skilled players who offset the athleticism and size differences the major conferences enjoy top to bottom. For that to happen the game has to be called consitsently and fairly with in a set of rules that pits a combination of strength and skill. .

tiptondevilcat
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Member Since: 11/1/2010
Post Count: 65

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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/18/2010 2:06:52 PM

Doc Bobcat wrote:

West Virginia over Davidson in the Puerto Rico classic.

Total fouls for the game.........67.

Kids and coaches are going to have to go back to basics. Sit down in your stance, slide your feet and get position. Quit using your body to impede and slapping at the ball with your length. Simple basketball intellligence that is taught here in Indiana from 3rd grade on. We may have to have Bobby Knight do "Knight School" for the coaches.

Last Edited: 11/18/2010 2:08:10 PM by tiptondevilcat

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/18/2010 2:31:37 PM

Let the boys play.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Jeff McKinney
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Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,155

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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/18/2010 4:50:06 PM

IMO, Tiptondevilcat is right. I can't express myself as eloquently as he did, but he's right.

I've been watching and participating in the game closely since the late 60s. The type of basketball being played now in the NBA and by some colleges is just plain hard to watch compared to what we saw in the 60s and 70s.

Sometimes I'd rather watch a good Euro game or an NCAA Div. III game.

John C. Wanamaker
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Post Count: 1,103

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RE: Excessive Fouls

Posted: 11/18/2010 6:37:46 PM

The fundamentals of the game are lost on many, and the reason for all the fouls is the lack of fundamentals and the reliance on strength to manipulate the opponent. What's funny is lets look at many fans current Ohio favorite Tommy Freeman. Tommy is successful because of his fundamental skill set and knowledge of the game, Tommy stuggles in some of these slug fest and styles of the game that some teams play.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

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