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Topic: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Topic: Did everyone enjoy that today?

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Bobcat Love
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Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/2/2011 9:06:38 PM

Awful Crowd.
Awful Distribution of Minutes.
Awful 2nd half collapse.
Awful pride in the home floor.
Awful perimeter D in the 2nd half.
Awful officiating in the last 3 minutes and OT.

There's a lot of things I want to write at this moment, but I'm going to hold off b/c all it will do is deteriorate into calling people out by name.

The biggest issues in my mind are threefold:

1. We play with little or no emotion. Glad we got to watch the Manchurian Candidate out there again today. There is absolutely no fire on this team. I personally think that translates into the FT problem. There's no heat to do better than 61% from the stripe. Nobody cares. Ho-Hum.

2. Our frontcourt is the softest and least experienced I've seen on Richland in a long time...and it's not improving. Maybe we were spoiled the last few years (Leon, Rome, Improved KVK)...but people need to start working harder to get better - Coaches and Players. Thank god we've got frontcourt help on the way next year...oops, no we don't.

3. Shot Selection is atrocious. I would love to play on this team. I could launch a quick one from anywhere in the Convo, clank it, and still get a nice, juicy bro hug from the Coaching Staff . I'm sorry, but it's time to start sitting asses on the bench when they crank these bad shots. There is too much coddling going on down there. Asses need to be ripped up a little bit. The stat sheet doesn't tell lies.

Per Mrs. LOVE the team played about as well as the halftime show. I can't disagree with her there. We were slow, emotionless, and dropping batons left and right. Don't kid yourself, Robert Morris is not good. This is a team that just lost to lowly Morgan State the other night. We ARE AT LEAST 15 points better than RMU, but I guess we are who we thought they were.

Sayles plays 2 minutes? He must have been a disciplinary problem this week in practice. Ha. I'm guessing he would have been a better perimeter defensive option in the 2nd half then some of the nonsense I saw out there. There were elderly women in the stands who could have defended the perimeter with more energy.

Oh well. Ho hum. Aw shucks Roy Williams. Let's go mosey into MAC Play and see how that turns out. May just catch fire and win a few games in March again. Ho hum Twiddley Dee. 7-7 going into MAC Play. 5-5 on the home floor. Never thought I'd see the day where the Convo has turned into a house of horrors for the boys in Green and White. Not exactly playing a murderer's row at home either. Good teams? Maybe. Beatable teams in the Convo - Absolutely. Embarrassing and Sad.

By the way, we have lost some mind numbing games at home during the Groce regime:

RMU Today
Kansas by 57 11/26/10 (I know it wasn't at home, but I'm still smh)
IUPUI 12/12 (RPI 145 and falling fast)
Austin Peay 12/9/09
Ball State 1/31/10
BG 1/24/09
Buffalo 3/1/09

6 Egregious losses and 1 anhiliation on a neutral floor. 3 black marks already in '10-'11.

Maybe my expectations are too high. Maybe 6 ungodly home losses in 3 years is ok and meets the standard of expectation of our fan base. The issue is that we are getting worse at defending the Convo as Groce progresses in his tenure. Even during our 15-17 campaaign during his first year - we were still 11-2 at home. We'll be lucky to hang with .500 at the rate we're going this year.

Whatever. Sun still comes up in the East tomorrow and Ol' Roy will go spit in the Ol' Mississippi. Aw shucks.

JSF
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/2/2011 9:10:08 PM

I can tell you with certainty that this team is not being coddled.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

intrpdtrvlr
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/2/2011 9:26:10 PM

It totally sucked that we lost. We had a tight lead in a close game for most of the 2nd half and it slipped away. We got some opportunities to win it and came up short. That is a shame.

However, I actually did enjoy myself today. I saw two teams play a hard fought competitive basketball game. I confess, I don't follow Robert Morris and didn't have any preconceptions about what we should do. Karon Abraham was a beast and his shot form was beautiful. We did not have an answer for him. Still, there were stretches when Ohio played great D and I saw lots of hustle. We started two freshman and two sophomores so clearly we're a young team, inexperienced despite last year's success. How many freshmen come into D1 basketball playing great defense?

I don't know; there's so much negativity on this board; it's part of why I post rarely. I'm not trying to start anything with you, Love, but my bottomline is I did enjoy myself today and I wish more people who followed the Bobcats could find things to be positive about. They were there today.

BA - Michigan State '03, MA - Ohio '05, PhD - Ohio '15

Bobcat Love
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/2/2011 9:38:36 PM

I thought our first half defense and intensity was stifling...however, it was nowhere to be found in the 2nd half. It made no sense.

I don't enjoy losing, but I guess that's just me.

intrpdtrvlr
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/2/2011 9:55:14 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

I thought our first half defense and intensity was stifling...however, it was nowhere to be found in the 2nd half. It made no sense.

I don't enjoy losing, but I guess that's just me.

I understand that, Love, I do. I appreciate that your passion leads you to demand a lot from the team. At the same time, you don't want that to blur your perception. Case in point, I wouldn't harp on our shot selection. Overall, we shot almost 40% from deep. We got lots of good looks, took them, and hit a fair percentage. DJ had a few ill-advised launches, true, and his shooting from all points was a major culprit. You can hold his feet to the flames on that, but overall I think we did fine. The biggest beef, which you mention, is that your star PG with a knack for getting to the line has to do better than 50% from the stripe.

BA - Michigan State '03, MA - Ohio '05, PhD - Ohio '15

Bobcat Love
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/2/2011 10:11:39 PM

Yes, we shot 39% today but I can identify several possessions where we pulled from 3 not even 10 seconds into the shot clock. Using screens and ball movement to free people up for the open look just doesn't happen enough. That's why we're shooting 33% on the year (193rd in the nation for those of you scoring at home). Everyone is trying to create their own shot off the dribble, and we just don't have the playmakers to do it. I'm not saying some of these guys won't develop into playmakers, but right now - we need to have guys coming off screens and moving without the ball to free themselves up - and I just don't see it. Thus, we're either pulling quick 3's early in the possession, or waiting to clank a 23 footer with 2 seconds left in the possession. Either way, I'm pretty sure those are two of the lower % three's were going to attempt.

Edit - Overall, shot selection was the 3rd of my 3 issues today. Truly, the lack of energy and passion being displayed is #1. Just a dead zone. Nobody wants to take charge of this thing and be the leader on the floor who everyone rallies around. Are leaders frowned upon on this team? Someone step up.

Last Edited: 1/2/2011 10:13:40 PM by Bobcat Love

BobcatSports
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/2/2011 10:15:15 PM

We essentially went 7 deep today, with Johnson getting 4 minutes and Sayles a cameo appearance with a whopping 2 minutes. I'm confused why Sayles has been put into the Witness Protection Program. I understand he doesn't bring the night after night ability to be a double-digit scorer, what I think he has proven to be though, is a more than adequate defensive performer and at least a calmning figure at the offensive end of the court, which was sorely needed at times today especially from the last 10 minutes of regulation which was about the time we had blown a 42-30 lead and we proceeded to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm concerned that once things start to unravel on us, that the ENTIRE operation appears to be clueless as to how to re-establish some semblence of control. It would be one thing if we were losing these Convo games to clearly superior talent, but we are now making a habit of losing Convo games to teams, that we SHOULD NOT be losing to. Again, back to Sayles I just haven't seen a good reason as to how the guy has gone from starter to he might as well have been gone from the program as he appears to have totally fallen from someone's good graces. I haven't seen any of the freshmen play that spectacular that would render Sayles as persona non needed at this point.

Chicken George
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/2/2011 11:09:02 PM

Another strange game today. As posted here, other than missing FT, we appeared to play hard and for the most part played pretty well. So why the .500 record? I honestly think the bottom line analysis of this team is: we're missing too many pieces and are incomplete.

Other than DJ, we have two types of players on this team:

1. 3 Point /Outside Jump Shooters: Kellog, Freeman, Hall
Tommy is by far the most polished of the outside shooters. But all three settle for the jumper, versus going to the hole, 99% of the time. All three of their games are spot-up shooters.
2. Back to the Basket With Inconsistent Post Moves Guys: Baltic, Washington, Keely
All three of these guys play the majority of the game with their backs to the basket. Pass the ball into them and they all have the same game: Back in, dribble, back in, dribble, back in, dribble, shoot.

I realize these are broad categories, but you can really dump the guys who play the majority of the minutes into two buckets as they literally bring the same options to the table. One key piece this team is missing is the guy(s)who can create offense. The guy who can drive the ball into the paint, make the defense come to them, and then make these other guys more effective by either: a) dishing it out to our outside shooters for an open jumper; or b) dropping the ball to Baltic, Washington or Keely for an easier shot; c) get a quality shot or go to the line. DJ tries to be the guy (and sometimes he simply joins Group #1: The Outside Shooters Club) but usually gets bumped around where he can't get deep enough into the paint. Plus DJ is looking more to get fouled going to the hole and is not a consistent finisher when he drives (not to mention the fans/refs have picked up on the fact that he flops/throws his head back every time he gets touched and hence I don't think he gets as many fouls called as he should).

Interesting that during the post game show Russ asked JG what the personality of his team is and he said, "we're a 3 point shooting team." If you consider the number of jumpers DJ shoots and add him to category #1 (Outside Shooters) then you can agree than 4 of the 7 guys getting most of the minutes right now are jump shooters. Problem is, other than Tommy, the other three are pretty inconsistent jump shooters. And finally, there is simply noboby else on the roster who brings anything to the table, hence the reason Asown & Ricardo are getting their minutes slashed. Ricardo appears to be the slasher type, but it's obvious he's a year or two away. Asown is a nice role player, but I don't feel he brings anything we need to the table to take minutes away from who's already playing. He was listed in a post as someone to help on defense today, but the guys lighting us up were guards, so he didn't fit the bill. If the guys lighting us up was a physical/athletic power forward, then this would've been a good spot for Asown on defense.

Still think we can be an ok team this year, but unless we get real hot, I don't see a huge upside to this team until the other pieces are added to the team in the future. Just my opinion.

Last Edited: 1/2/2011 11:18:19 PM by Chicken George

perimeterpost
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 12:18:46 AM

is every loss a cause for a meltdown diatribe? this is a young team with a young coach that got hot for one magical week 9 months ago. I'm not sure why their performance is a surpise. A team reflects its coach and frankly Groce looks emotionally sporatic at times. so does his team.

On the plus side, I like the starting line up we've seemed to settle into- Coop, Kellog, Hall, Baltic and Washington. I think the two freshmen give us our best bet to develop another AB type that can drive to the basket and/or shoot from 3. That kind of threat is critical to our offense with the lack of strength we have down low. They will still make freshmen mistakes but giving them minutes now will payoff in March.

I like having Freeman and Sayles as our veteran offense/defense specialists coming off the bench, I hope they see quality minutes each game.

The biggest surpise/question mark for me so far this season is Reggie Keely. He looks frustrated, lost and unsure of himself, and I have absolutely no idea why.

What matters now is that we go out and destroy Miami next week.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

Chicken George
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 12:27:01 AM

Speaking of "emotionally sporatic," Robert Morris' coach was a trip. Never seen a coach be such a jerk to his team from my seat at the Convo. He's the youngest coach in NCAA Division I and while I give him kudos for a nice road win, he'll have to mature in his handling of young men if he's to stay in the profession.

Last Edited: 1/3/2011 12:34:02 AM by Chicken George

oubobcatjohn
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 1:56:29 AM

I do like the lineup we had today. I think it offers Groce the chance to rotate his three guards Cooper, Kellogg, and Freeman with his three bigs Washington, Baltic and Keely. Hall/Freeman splitting the minutes at the 3 spot. Solid 7 man rotation with some limited action for Sayles and Johnson who are . We aren't as deep a team as we hoped. Smith and Offutt likely slide into Washington and Freeman roles next year. Right now developing Kellogg, Hall, Baltic and Keely around Cooper would be are key objective.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 3:00:30 AM

Didn't see or hear it. But clearly we're gonna have to win it with defense--at least..and if/until--we develop an offense.

And one or two of our big men are going to have to determine to dominate, to get the ball off the glass. THAT'S MY BALL. And to score without having too many plays run for him/them.

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Ted Thompson
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 9:01:21 AM

perimeterpost wrote:

I like having Freeman and Sayles as our veteran offense/defense specialists coming off the bench, I hope they see quality minutes each game.

The biggest surpise/question mark for me so far this season is Reggie Keely. He looks frustrated, lost and unsure of himself, and I have absolutely no idea why.

My question is at what point do you decide that Keely is not a 20-minute per game player? Would it be better to bump up Washington and Baltic's minutes and get more 4-time out of Sayles? He'll probably run into some numbers in MAC play but this isn't the same player we saw down the stretch last year. Of course, maybe the looks are harder this year with the absence of shot creators.

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giacomo
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 9:18:44 AM

You have to conclude that at this point in the season we are just an average team. I only saw the opener and from what I saw, thought we had enough talent and size to be better than our record currently indicates. From looking at the box scores, we are not getting consistant numbers from our best players. Last year is gone and we didn't meet those expectations in the first part or our season. Hopefully, we'll improve as we go through the MAC.

Bobcat Love
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 9:28:24 AM

Ted Thompson wrote:

Fan of the Game hit the nail on the head here. I didn't want to negatively call out individuals, but since Ted did the dirty work - this is a valid question.

I'm not sure if anyone is watching film, but when the ball goes low to Keely on the entry - everything completely stops for a second while he tries to figure out what to do. In the aggregate we move the ball pretty well on the perimeter, but it just dies when it goes inside to him.

He's not skilled enough to play the post right now and he has no semblence of an outside game. My biggest beef yesterday was that he didn't get into the box score offensively until about his 27th minute on the floor. He played 30 minutes and while he did grab 9 boards, he was virtually listless on the offensive end.

Maybe he will develop into a guy like Tillman, but he's not there right now. I would much rather see Baltic, Washington, Sayles, and even Adedipe on the floor for a little more athletic look. I don't think we lose anything with them playing more minutes, and if anything - Baltic has more upside to develop.

Sayles playing 2 minutes yesterday is flat out unacceptable.

Chicken George
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 10:43:32 AM

Ted---hadn't really thought of that idea, but I'm for it. Flip-flopping Keely for Asown on the "you're the next guy off the island" list and see if this improves. Asown gives us a little more face up options, a little more athletic and I like the thought. All along I've been looking to limit Asown's minutes to give them to better options, but Keely continues to do nothing. Other than that, I also agree in just giving more minutes to DW and Baltic.

Bobcat Love
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 11:01:43 AM

Couple other points from yesterday....

1. I caught a T-shirt. Snagged it from mid-air so one of the nudniks behind me couldn't have it. It's the little things.
2. Meant to mention the Billy Hahn lineage in the house yesterday.
3. One of the Bob Morris Assistants was wearing a velour sport coat. He looked exactly like Coach Yontos from Rudy. "I can do this Coach"

JSF
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 1:49:07 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Didn't see or hear it. But clearly we're gonna have to win it with defense--at least..and if/until--we develop an offense.

There were a few times in the second half we played good defense, forced a bad shot... and gave up an offensive rebound.

Catdude
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 3:05:24 PM

I thought the effort of the tire rollers was pathetic!!!!

Ozcat
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 4:02:45 PM

I was thinking recently of how at least in my day, which was 2000-2004, we held down the fort at home. Without looking, it seems like AT MOST we would lose no more than 3 games in the Convo.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 4:15:40 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

is every loss a cause for a meltdown diatribe?

No...but 5 losses at the Convo with this schedule is. It's been a VERY disappointing year. This shouldn't come as any surprise...in the dozen or so years I've been following the team, any time we have high expectations and a great team on paper, we fall flat on our faces. Our best teams come in years we expect very little. This and the Chicago Cubs have caused hair loss to kick in full force before the age of 30 for me.

Andrew Ruck
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D.A.
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RE: Did everyone enjoy that today?

Posted: 1/3/2011 5:09:39 PM

I am at a disadvantage having only seen the Temple game live, with the rest online video/audio, but in what I saw, in my humble opinion:

We have a team that is scared to death to make a mistake for fear of retribution.

I am by no means a coddler of men, but in the 21st century, you cannot lead people to greatness with only the whip.

I'm not at the practices, not in team meetings, have no insider knowledge, but body language speaks in huge volumes, and I think the coach has lost this team.

Hate to say it and hope we have a direct line to a sports psychologist. I hope I am wrong.

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And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

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stub
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Our 3 bigs

Posted: 1/3/2011 5:45:07 PM

I'm ok with the starting 5, with Tommy, Reggie, and Ricardo being our key 3 reserves. But for some reason, Ivo sits for long periods and barely plays 1/2 the game.

My take on our 'bigs'

I agree Reggie is too deliberate on offense but he is capable of scoring in deep, plus his strength, positioning, and soft hands makes him our best rebounder.

Devo needs to get more consistent on offense. He's a human pogo stick and needs to forget bouncing the ball when he's backed in low, and go up for the flush.

Ivo should see the ball more. He's the most active of the 'bigs' and can go left or right to the hole, plus he's developing a nice fade away jumper.

Last game, our 'bigs' finally started finding shooters to dish off to, but they only only took a combined 12 shots in 45 minutes. The 3 of them often hold the ball too low when they first get it, and rarely make a quick up move to the basket, which is often when the defense is less packed in.

Bottom line- 2 of the 3 bigs need to be on the court at all times.

Last Edited: 1/3/2011 5:58:12 PM by stub

First Street Forever
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RE: Our 3 bigs

Posted: 1/3/2011 6:39:25 PM

   ____________________________________________________
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     |     Oh for the days of Life on the Road...        |
     |              I guess nowadays it's Life at Home! |
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<<<<<-----------------------------------------------------

Last Edited: 1/3/2011 7:03:10 PM by First Street Forever

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Ohio Hoops
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RE: Our 3 bigs

Posted: 1/3/2011 6:47:14 PM

My view on the bigs: they're awful. Plain and simple. Do they have some talent? Sure, you don't play division I ball without having some talent. But you can count on one hand the amount of true post moves in a game. Everything else is based on fast break points and hoping the defense falls asleep for a second. There are way too many fallaway lay up attempts and not enough taking it strong to the hoop and maybe heaven forbid having a little contact while you finish. We are a long, long way from the days of Leon Williams, that's for damn sure.

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