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Topic: Rebounding not the problem!

Topic: Rebounding not the problem!

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Voice of Reason
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Member Since: 7/28/2010
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Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/14/2011 10:01:43 AM

I really don't think rebounding is the main problem. Let me dive into some numbers for comparison...

In 09-10 Ohio averaged 37.1 Rebounds per game with 11.9 of them coming on the offensive glass. At the same time Opponents averaged 37.8 rebounds per game with 12.7 coming on the offensive glass. This year we are averaging 38.7 rebounds per game with 13.3 on the offensive glass(and increase on offense and in total) while our opponents are averaging 38.7 rebounds per game with 12.3(down .4) coming off the offensive glass. I just don't see how we can blame things on rebounding when it hasn't varied significantly from last year. Also, DJ Cooper's 5.8 boards per game are up only .4 from last year. Him being the leading rebounder is not ideal, but i don't think it is as big a red flag as some think. He just happens to be a ball magnet and is playing an insane number of minutes while the big man are sharing a lot of minutes. KVK averaged 6 plus last year, but this year we have more guys at 5 plus.

When looking and comparing the stats, the things that stood out to me most were points we are giving up per game, and FT's attempted by opponents per game. Our average points scored per game this year is 75.5(up .8 from last year), but our opponents are averaging 75.1(up 5.7 from last year). You give up more points, you lose more games. Now the points per game is a nice stat, but where is it coming from? Well, I believe one source is FT's. Last year opponents attempted 20.7 per game while this year they are attempting 25.7. that means our opponents, averaging 68% from the line, are getting 3.4 points per game more from the charity stripe!

Now, there are some other areas that I believe are impacting the remaining 2.3 points per game. While I can't directly connect them like I did with FT's, we are averaging 14.7 TO's per game compared to 12.8 last year and we are allowing our opponents to shoot 44% from the field compared to 41% last year. What is the cause and what is the effect? Part of that 3% increase is caused by more turnovers leading to more easy buckets!

Conclusion: We are not as smart or disciplined on defense and we are not taking care of the ball as well.
Outlook: I will attribute the difference in turnovers to a lot of young guards making young mistakes and an experienced guard trying to force some things at times(because I think he has to!). However, I fully expect this area to improve as the young guards get more experience and mature and as a result are able to take some pressure off of Coop.

Defensively....I think we will get better. Remember, Reggie and Ivo are still fairly inexperienced big men. TJ is a bit lazy on D and Rico is over eager at times and trying to make things happen to often(silly fouls). They will improve! DeVaughn we are just gonna have to learn to live with because he isn't changing at this point(and he may not be part of the problem...although he has fouled out of a few games) I think they will get better and smarter as the season progresses and we will become a better defensive unit!

If you have ever read the book Tipping Point you know how much little things matter. I believe that if we the little things above, we will be back on track! Now, shoot some holes in this theory!

crackerbaby00
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/14/2011 10:15:13 AM

While I am following your logic and am glad that you used stats to back it up, I think you are leaving out one important thing. Rebounding was an issue last year as well....so while there hasnt been that much of a change, that may not be a good thing.....JMO

Ryan Carey
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/14/2011 10:16:17 AM

Great post.

I will add that we were complaining about rebounding last year as well, and overall we were < .500 in the MAC.

Perhaps our offensive mindset of getting lots of possessions and speeding up the game leads to our guys heading to the opposite goal as soon as the shot goes up. If you watch Tommy, he's often heading the other way before we get the rebound, looking to push things and get a spot up three.

I hope you are right about the increase in fouls being a result of the young guys needing more time to learn the system. I'd guess the increase in fouls is a result of guys having to react and cover up for a teammate's missed assignment. That missed assignment could be one of two things, a lazy lack of effort, or not knowing the system. Could be both. I hope the fouls decrease as the defense level increases the rest of the season.

Ryan M. Carey
BBA 2001

bigbobcat
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/14/2011 10:49:23 AM

I like your post I think there are a lot of things the team could improve on. However, to play devil's advocare, just one quick stat that I found intriguing. In the Miami game last year at home we had 9 second chance points compared to their 4. This year, we had 2... they had 19! NINETEEN! I haven't looked at the rest of this year, but rebounding directly contributed to that particular loss.

Rebounds:
Ohio 32
Miami 50

Offensive Rebounds:
Ohio 8
Miami 20

Points off Turnovers
Ohio 20
Miami 20

Last Edited: 1/14/2011 10:58:56 AM by bigbobcat

bobcat695
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/14/2011 11:01:34 AM

Rebounding is the problem. Without 2nd chance points, we win a lot more games this year (and last). Size is a problem, so is the zone defense. I like zone to cover the shooters and to pressure the shots, but it is a lot harder to rebound out of a zone. Anyone that has played basketball knows that is one of the general downsides to zone. We have to play zone due to being undersized, but it hurts on the boards. One intimidating big man that is 6'10" or so would be a huge addition. Our bigs are 6'8", 6'8". and 6'7". Two are leapers with Reggie being the only real big wide body on the floor. This is not just an effort issue. It is more about matchups and technique.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/14/2011 12:19:50 PM

Without a doubt, rebounding was an issue against Miami, which is especially bad because Miami has not rebounded well this year (but then again, you have to consider who they played against non-league). However, as a whole, we are rebounding slightly better than last year and slightly better than our opponents.

On the year, we are -11 in rebounding, but that number really doesn't tell a fair story. We tend to cause more turnovers than our opponents, which means we have more shots. Obviously, defense rebounds are easier to grab than offensive rebounds, so naturally, opponents are going to grab a majority of the extra shots. Shooting percentages also can skew rebounding numbers. If your opponent hardly misses, then the only rebounds you're getting are offensive, and those are twice as hard to come by.

So, here is a look at the numbers: Ohio has grabbed 66.84 percent of opponnet's misses, whole opponnent's have grabbed 66.56 percent of Ohio's misses.

Last year, it was 66.3 for Ohio and 67.6 for opponnents, so rebounding was a slight issue last year.

Against Miami, Ohio grabbed just 54.5 percent of Miami's misses. Miami got 78.9 percent of its own. So it probably was even worse than the pure numbers indicate! But it was just one game.

Then again, Akron wasn't a lot better. It just wasn't as obvious because we shot way better than them. We grabbed 61.9 percent of Akron's misses, while Akron got 79.3 percent of ours.

Still, prior to these two games, Ohio rebounded a fair deal better than its opponent and still rates as the fifth best offensive and sixth best rebounding team in the MAC (but as I mentioned, schedules are by no means even to this point).

Within the MAC, Kent State has been the best offensive rebounding team at 37.4 percent. Ranks are:
Kent 37.4
WMU 35.6
Buff 34.3
CMU 34.3
Ohio 33.5
NIU 33.5
BG 32.4
EMU 31.8
Ball 30.3
Akron 39.6
Toledo 28.3
Miami 27.4

Eastern Michigan is by far the best defensive rebounding team at 76.2 percent.
EMU 76.2
CMU 69.6
Ball 68.9
Toledo 67.3
WMU 67.0
Ohio 66.8
Buff 66.7
Akron 66.1
BG 66.0
Miami 65.8
NIU 65.0
Kent 64.3

Interestingly, Kent State is the best offensive rebounding team and the worst defensive rebounding team, so we could see a lot of offensive boards both ways Saturday.

Casper71
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/14/2011 2:19:43 PM

Reason...the last two games we've given up 20 and 16 ORB. That is above our average the last two years. So, yese, we need to be better here. Actually, we won one of those games and lost one of those games. The big difference was our ability to hit the threes in the win.

I think we win or lose the rest of the year based on hitting 50% of our threes or 25%. Guess which games we might win?

bobcatsquared
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/14/2011 4:54:20 PM

Last Edited: 1/14/2011 4:56:49 PM by bobcatsquared

bobcatsquared
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/14/2011 4:56:25 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

Those are listed heights. Anyone know what their actual heights are? The same? Less?

giacomo
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/15/2011 2:16:16 PM

If rebounding is our problem it's good news. You can fix it. Most of it is just wanting to rebound more than your oponent.

bobcat695
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/16/2011 12:55:57 PM

As it turns out, rebounding really is the problem.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Voice of Reason
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Member Since: 7/28/2010
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/16/2011 4:47:06 PM

I will be the first to admit it! Rebounding is a problem. My analysis and theory was based off our averages for the season. However, our averages over the last couple of games are significantly different and beginning to become a trend rather than a the exception...That is a problem. At the same time, there are still other areas that are costing us games. It isn't purely rebounding. In the Kent game it was foul shooting. That said....REBOUNDING!

Ohio Hoops
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Location: Richmond, VA
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/16/2011 5:34:52 PM

We currently rank dead last in the league at rebounding defense by giving up an average of 38.8 per game. We're also second to last in scoring defense by giving up 74.7. On the bright side we are tops in the league at scoring offense with 74.9 points per game. Tim O'Shea would be pleased with that.

bobcatsquared
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/16/2011 9:41:40 PM

Interesting stat: our 3 seniors played 29 minutes (Washington), 25 minutes (Sayles) and 25 minutes (Freeman) and grabbed 1 rebound each v. Kent.

On the bright side? That's 3 more than our juniors.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/16/2011 10:28:21 PM

For those that love Tommy (and he has been a good Bobcat) he has an average of less than one rebound per game in 4 years!

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Ohio Hoops
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Location: Richmond, VA
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/17/2011 8:03:52 AM

John C. Wanamaker wrote:

For those that love Tommy (and he has been a good Bobcat) he has an average of less than one rebound per game in 4 years!

Uh oh, watch out for all the Tommy fans that are going to be falling over themselves to oppose this stat.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/17/2011 12:19:53 PM

Sorry, I misspoke, the actual number is 1.46 rpg. 169 boards in 115 career games.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

roar-room
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/17/2011 2:01:08 PM

So Tommy gives up six inches, twenty-five pounds, and about 4-5 rebounds per game to DJ.

I don't even want to go into our big men!

UpSan Bobcat
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Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/17/2011 2:43:17 PM

To this point in league play, missed shots by Ohio opponets are almost 50-50. The Bobcats get just 54.6 percent. Ohio gets offensive boards at a rate of 24.7 percent.

Miami, which ranks as the worst rebounding team in the MAC overall, is tops in MAC play, but of course that is inflated a lot by the Ohio game.

MAC only O-rebounding:
WMU 45.2
Miami 39.6
Kent 38.9
EMU 35.5
BG 34.0
Akron 33.9
CMU 32.7
Buff 29.9
Ball 28.8
Ohio 24.7
Tol 22.0
NIU 18.0

D-rebounding:
CMU 75.9
NIU 71.6
Buff 70.3
Akron 70.3
Miami 70.0
Ball 69.9
BG 69.8
EMU 65.7
WMU 63.4
Kent 62.9
Tol 62.1
Ohio 54.6

BG has fairly average rebounding numbers, but they haven't played us yet, so if we rebound like we have been, that will moved them up near the top.

giacomo
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RE: Rebounding not the problem!

Posted: 1/17/2011 2:59:50 PM

Back in 1979-80 Spindle Graves at guard was the leading rebounder and our record was not great that year.

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