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Topic: Turning Point....

Topic: Turning Point....

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Bobcat Love
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Turning Point....

Posted: 1/9/2011 10:44:26 PM

You heard it right here....today was the turning point in our season - in a good and positive way.

1. I have no problem with DJ's shot selection. A lot of the fans (idiots) around me were really getting on Groce/Cooper about some of the shots going up, and they're wrong. Plain and simple. There is no way I'm going to get on a kid who's scoring instincts, while still developing at this level, are strong and solid. Groce put it perfectly on the post game show, you want him attacking at all times, and sometimes you get some vinegar with the honey. (I made the last cliche) I have absolutely no problem with having the ball in his hands in crunch time and with any of the decisions he makes. Could he eat a little more time off the shot clock, maybe...but if his instincts tell him there's an opening - I'd rather he pounce and be comfortable then force something out of his comfort zone. Let's cut this talk off right now.

2. If you want reason #1 we lost the game, look at the rebounding edge. We got killed on the boards and it's the same, fixable problem that has plagued us for 5 weeks. Complete fundamental breakdowns in the paint. As I tweeted, this is not the first time we've given up an offensive rebound to the shooting team when they have nobody on the FT blocks. That's just ridiculous. I counted 4 times today when we didn't put a body on a guy and it led to easy 2nd chance points. That, my friends, is unacceptable.

3. That said, I think we saw Ivo Baltic's coming out party today. He played strong, smart, tough, and within himself. I liked everything I saw out there. Tons of energy. Played well in the clutch. My level of optimism shot through the roof tonight, and his future became a lot less cloudy in my eyes. Great effort.

4. How great is Charlie Coles? I can't even go into all the stuff I saw from him on the sidelines, but he is the best. There is nobody like him, and I could watch Ohio - Miami games in the Convo with him involved for the next 40 years - easy. I just never want this stuff to end.

5. Fantastic student turnout. The students were great. Stayed. Into the game. Fun. Creative. Awesome. I really applaud the students. It was great to witness.

6. Sayles played 2 minutes against Robert Morris. 37 minutes today. I realize some of today was circumstantial with the other big guys in foul trouble, but maybe distribution of minutes is truly the issue many of think.

7. If you gave me the choice, I would list the following as high % shots right now for the cats:
      A. Open Freeman 3
      B. Cooper drive
      C. Washington somewhat alone on the block in the paint

Other than those 3 choices, everything else is a total crapshoot. No dribble drives. No high low. Just a whole lot of standing around and hoping we get one of those 3 options. So if you want to rip Cooper's shot selection, I would tell you that unless we get a Freeman 3 or Washington free down low - any other option has a similar % probability as the shot Cooper is going to take. Hopefully that makes sense. Basically I'm saying any Cooper shot is just as good right now as any other shot we're going to get.

To me, that's on Groce and the staff to start getting the guys some better looks. The looks just aren't there. I'm not sure Tommy took a 3 the entire Overtime stretch. How can that be? There has to be more creativity in creating better shots on offense. Right now the offense is in a complete abyss, and we can't win if we're not scoring the basketball.

8. Mavunga, Winbush, and Ballard are men. They were fun to watch. I respect each of those guys. Good players.

9. I LOVED the on court seating at the beginning of the game. As things progressed, I thought it was gaudy and out of place. The people were blocking the O-zone, and the whole thing was a total force. Not to mention, you have Vern Alden sitting in the middle bowl of seats today, while his $'s and contributions over the years entitle him more than anyone to a courtside seat. That was borderline odd and a head scratcher in my book. This, to me has the same look and feel of those ridiculous end zone seats at football games that are always empty....Let's scrap that experiment right now.

10. Lots of other thoughts, but I had a good time today. I'm not even that down about the loss. It was a fun day. Both teams are just marginal right now, but they played hard and the better team won out in a hard fought battle. We had a great crowd. Charlie was on fire. Truly, one for the books. Just a great time.

Ozcat
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/9/2011 10:54:57 PM

Well put as always.

If there is one thing I can take away from your thoughts, it is that this program apparently has declined to a level where the Love is not completely irate over losing to a 'marginal' team at home.

I think this is disturbing, as I greatly enjoy your vision for our program.

PG73
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 1:24:33 AM

Love, how do you not get beat up by the people who sit around you? Who are you to call other OU fans idiots? Why can't you just give your thoughts and leave it at that? I for one have a problem with his shot selection, and I'm no idiot when it comes to basketball. Someone shooting 28% from 3 pt. land should not have a green light to throw up 25 footers whenever he wants. I don't care how talented the kid is he has to be held accountable. He is the only player on the team that Groce hasn't pulled for a bad shot or stupid turnover. He has to learn every possession is valuable. Do you think it is smart basketball that he has more 3 attempts than one of the best 3 point shooters in the country? Do you think it is smart basketball that DJ goes 3 for 10 in OT and Freeman doesn't get off one shot? That is a bad offense and even worse coaching. Hope you are enjoying sub 500 basketball, because me and the rest of the idiots are not.

bobcatsquared
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 8:00:20 AM

By now you should know that you're an idiot if you disagree with The Love. (Why can't fans have different opinions w/out the name calling?)

I too would like to see Coop be a little more selective with some of his long threes. Guess I'm an idiot as well. At least we weren't called d-bags.

Bobcat Love
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 9:13:22 AM

PG73 wrote:

Hope you are enjoying sub 500 basketball, because me and the rest of the idiots are not.

I didn't hear anyone complaining in Providence last year as the clock ticked down during the G'town win, or in the MAC Tournament when we cut down the nets. Cooper's game hasn't changed much from last year. Same guy looking to attack, taking some iffy 3's here and there, but overall the same solid player for us.

A. The supporting cast is weaker.
B. Groce can definitely be held to the coals for some of his decisions, but allowing #5 the green light isn't one of them.

MonroeClassmate
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 9:36:16 AM

Deja vu. A Convo game vs Miami, I'd guess in the 1975-76 season where it also went triple OT and Dave Terrick (sp) hit a manly jumper from 4 paces beyond the NBA 3 line for the win.

Allowing relatively easy second shots because of poor rebounding in a close game is deadly. In a close game, everything counts.

Something that is hard to teach is having prowess on the offensive boards. Being over 6-6 and playing 25+ minutes and winding up with less than a dozen is a waste of body unless you are some lock down defender. What was it Walter Luckett was quoted as saying when asked if he was worried about being part of the offense, "I'll get 12-15 every night just hangin around".

Did anyone other than Miami's players do that? Any tips to keep a ball alive for a teammate to have a second chance? When DJ drove down the left side of the lane after beating his man, a Miami big man was forced to slide over to attempt a stop--if I'm 6'7" on DJ's team, I'm sprinting to position for the off block rebound--but not our guys, they appeared to have other things on their minds. Than again it was only one game, perhaps they did get to position on occasion and the shot was made or the miss didn't come their direction.

DJ didn't chuck up enough 3's. Trying to get the other guys going early he didn't attack at all for the first 7-10 minutes.

All coaches are the same. In OT they never substitute unless forced to do so because of foul outs. Wouldn't it be logical that even a college level stiff on the bench is better than a better player who is tired? How many OT's would it have to go before an energetic body comes in and looks quicker than everyone else because at that point he is? Is there no one left on the bench that could have spelled the tired Freeman, Sayles and Baltic to give us some rebounding and defensive tenacity during the second and third OT?

You guys want to see Tommy shoot more, tell him to get open--give credit to the defense, it appeared that they made the choice late in the game to not let him beat them again. At this point it is too late in his career to change and his inability to take it strong off the dribble completely eliminates lots of threes where a jab step sends the defender back pedaling for the step back knock down.

Wow, it was exciting to see Hall come off the bench after a long sit and drill a huge three and then start to make himself a presence before fouling out.

Our defense at times looked awesome forcing several shot clock violations and making some huge steals. That is very positive--an improvement on the boards and making those threes and this team will......

MedinaCat
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 9:38:21 AM

I am still optimistic...last year we lost our first 3 MAC games. Our non-con record was better, but we all had similar questions regarding who was getting minutes, who was not, etc. The play of Hall and Baltic yesterday gives me hope that a couple younger guys are going to step up. Hopefully Sayles and Freeman will take the reigns in terms of some senior leadership.

athena
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 9:46:13 AM

I agree with Love. I want a confident and aggressive Cooper. For the most part, his instincts are very good and I don't want him to start questioning himself. Green light all day long.

JSF
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 9:50:23 AM

If he wants to be aggressive, go to the basket. He's a poor three-point shooter and makes bad decisions behind the arc.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

Athens Block
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 9:53:55 AM

So... let me get this straight.... We lose.. at home... to Miami....and the Love is positive and makes some pretty well thought out points..... and he gets blasted....

You really want to pull DJ Cooper? Really? To teach him a lesson in a game against Miami? I'm sure that lesson will be taught in film... In OT #3 is not the time to pull a MAC Player of the year contender

If DJ doesn't take that same shot (albeit a little less contested) in the first OT we don't even see OTs # 2 and 3...
DJ and Tommy should both have green lights for the rest of the season... Ivo is working very hard on earning his green-light as well...

Also... for those complaining about free throws... you've got to be kidding me....
We shot 100% in regulation.... 100%!!!!! Then, we got tired... you know... because we've played 8 extra periods of OT games in the last 3 weeks! It happens.

I hate to lose, and I really really hate to lose at home... and there's nothing worse than losing to Miami... however... those kids gave it their all out there... and sometimes things just go that way...

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 9:54:34 AM

Love: Good comments and thoughts.

Concerning DJ, if he is not shooting who is? And you do have to take the bad that comes with the good, and DJ is bringing a lot more good to the floor than bad, and doing what his teammates at this point and time cannot do.

Unless you leave Tommy open he has no shot, he is incapable of getting his own shot, The rest of the team is incapable of getting their own shot. With this team the ball has to be in the hands of DJ. I have said this before and I will say it again, until we get that player who can help take the burden off of him we will struggle. We had those players and were counting on those players, however one chose not to go to class then get into a fight while the other is laying down beats and enjoying his fame as an up and coming rap artist.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

athena
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:03:45 AM

Bobcat Dragon wrote:

If he wants to be aggressive, go to the basket. He's a poor three-point shooter and makes bad decisions behind the arc.

He did go to the basket a good bit. I don't have any stats in front of me, but I believe he went to the FT line more than anyone else on the team did.

bobcat2nc
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:06:53 AM

Taking shots and taking good shots are two different things. I little more attention to the latter would be appreciated. We needed points coming down the stretch (4 different stretches). 2 points at a time would have been helpful.

BobcatSports
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:07:48 AM

Love, generally concur on all accounts. It's easy to single out DJ in a tough loss like that. However, IF the 3 ball had gone down, and IF the running floater had rolled around and gone in and IF he had been fouled on the drive and hit the FT's the cheers would have been thundering. I thought we lost yesterday's game more to some bad basketball luck with weird ways the loose balls bounced under the Miami basket and with the Miami big 3 guys you mentioned having played spectacularly solid games. It seemed EVERY time Miami needed one of those 3 to step-up and make a big shot they did. It happens my hat's off to them, I felt they earned that win more than we gave the game to them. I cannot fault our overall intensity in that game, I do fault some obvious break-downs that are becoming habit that I'm sure Groce and staff continue to address.
Charlie Coles is certainly what is good about collegiate athletics. I spent a HUGE portion of yesterday's game just watching him. It was worth the price of admission alone, I second your motion that I could watch that guy coach the OHIO-Miami game in the Convo forever. His give and take with the OZone is priceless.
I know everyone had high hopes and expectations of OHIO basketball coming off our dream March last year. A LOT has changed with this team since last March. When people were picking us to win the MAC East this year, they did so with A. Kellogg and Coleman on the roster. With their unexpected departures, Groce has been forced to re-shuffle the deck using individuals with far lesser experience and at this point in their careers talents that have yet to develop. Some are thus being forced to develop on the fly, and it shows and the results are inconsistent. I think you could make the same case for Groce, he is a young and inconsistent coach. I'm still of the opinion that HE needs to get himself under control at times and gets WAY too wrapped up in the officiating and loses his focus on the big picture.
Don't like the courtside seating in front of the OZone. It's a hinderance and gets in the way of the "6th" man in my opinion. There are certainly better options for seating people that you want to "reward" than placing them in front of students that you are openly acknowledging you want to be loud and boisterous. The two don't go hand in hand. Big kudos to the Ozone and student turn-out yesterday. It would be great to see that level of interest through-out the rest of the season. This team will need all the support it can get.

Turney13
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:15:08 AM

1. I have no problem with DJ's shot selection. A lot of the fans (idiots) around me were really getting on Groce/Cooper about some of the shots going up, and they're wrong. Plain and simple. There is no way I'm going to get on a kid who's scoring instincts, while still developing at this level, are strong and solid. Groce put it perfectly on the post game show, you want him attacking at all times, and sometimes you get some vinegar with the honey. (I made the last cliche) I have absolutely no problem with having the ball in his hands in crunch time and with any of the decisions he makes. Could he eat a little more time off the shot clock, maybe...but if his instincts tell him there's an opening - I'd rather he pounce and be comfortable then force something out of his comfort zone. Let's cut this talk off right now.

1. I have no problem with the football schedule for upcoming years. A lot of fans (idiots) around me are really getting on Schaus / Solich for schedule weaker opposition, and they're wrong. Plain and simple. There is no way I'm going to get on a coach or AD whose winning instincts, for a program still developing at this level, are strong and solid. They are trying to build a winner and this is the direction they have decided to go. I have absolutely no problem rooting for our team or the decisions the leaders make. Could we maybe schedule a littler harder, maybe, but if they are trying to build a winner I would rather they be comfortable then force some games on the schedule even though it does not fit into our plans

Turney Duff
Twitter: @turneyduff

tiptondevilcat
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:22:13 AM

Bobcat Love wrote:

PG73 wrote:

Hope you are enjoying sub 500 basketball, because me and the rest of the idiots are not.

I didn't hear anyone complaining in Providence last year as the clock ticked down during the G'town win,

B. Groce can definitely be held to the coals for some of his decisions, but allowing #5 the green light isn't one of them.

I would have been complaining had I seen them and I am sure in my initial research of Ohio players before the meltdown of the board one of the things I remember was that there was a number of folks lamenting Cooper's lack of timing and judgements in his shot selection. If you selectively forgot that , too bad.

Good basketball mandates examination and reflection in order to continue to get better. Listening to Coach on the post game show yesterday and watchig the buffaloblog link to the press conference was maddening. I know Coach knows the game better than that. Blaming the team and individuals for repetitive and ongoing bad basketball is laying it at the wrong feet.

A green light is one thing and trusting your player to take a shot is good too Bobcat Love, but reality mandates that you have to recognize that you are not running your offense the last 4 minutes and in each of the overtimes. This plays into Coach Coles hands.

Good thing about this is I get to watch the replay on STO at noon today. I have several issues I noticed yesterday and I am angry that I did not remember to hit the VCR record button. One of them is shot selection and involvement of 4 other players, Kellogg and Hall both were effective when they got touches in OT. Freeman made 2 really nice entry passes to Baltic when he finally got to touch the ball resulting in a layup and free throws. Otherwise I think I am going to see that OU did not even attempt to run an offense consistenty in the last 19 minutes. If a coach says we got what we wanted then he is not being honest with the public unless he really believes that in which case you got bigger problems. I noticed several games this year he says that line in post game and have been surprised. Good job by the announcers asking those questions in the interview.

When you give a child a green light to play his video game you still have to monitor whether he knows to put it down after an hour. If he does not you have to correct him. Likewise if you stick your head in the sand your parenting skills are at question. If DJ has the green light and takes those shots in the context of the offense then no problem. I am not in favor of throwing players under the bus so if my buddy walked into my house and saw my grandkids playing video games non stop he would ask me if I lost my mind. Effective coaching mandates reflection and correction. There is no gene for a "spoiled kid". It has to be learned. The sliver spoon is not in their mouth when it comes out, you have to give it to them. Harder to get the pony back in the barn once it is out. Got to do it though if you want success later. The greatest gift you can give a player is a better inner voice and ability to deal with a game as it comes at him. But you can't ignore performance, gotta learn the lesson. It is the meaning of the saying "teaching moment" but the teacher has to be on top of the lesson plan.

Not to get off the subject but I think when I rewatch this game at noon I am going to see DJ take a couple of possession off on both the offensive and defensive end mentally resulting in a poor shot being put up on successive possessions and corresponding mental lapses at the defensive end due to fatigue if I read his body language right. . Hall got caught in Cooper'sfail to recoveroff a hedge/ball screeen which left him sprinting to close out a shooter resulting ina 3 point foul on one of those earlier lapses. That is Coach's failure to recognize that in his player and not bolster or mentor him, or get him a blow.

The poster talking about Freeman in regulation then dissappearing just needs to listen to the STO commentator who remarked that they had only got him 2 touches in so long a period of time and lamented that the offense left him standing in the corner most the time. He also described an offense where he would have been running him off of multiple screens.

All in all I think Flomogenized (some kind of weird milk?) has a pretty good handle on things. I really like Coach Groce and truly believe he has the skills and connections to bring that Gonzaga thing to Ohio but like most parents who are still learning we have to tolerate the brattiness of the kids till mom and dad figure out who has a better vision for the errant childs future. How many times have you all had your kids complain about what your sisters kids get away with. Ya just gotta realize that kids don't come with instructions and there is a learning curve that each parent goes through. Meanwhile your kids will think you lost your mind putting up with their sister's inability to parent. From the outside we all got answers, we just got a need to coment on how our sis is raising her kids because really, really we know from our own experience there is a better way to do it because we already made those mistakes. Basketball is the same way. Love the game and it loves you back. Mess with it and it makes you pay.

Last Edited: 1/10/2011 10:30:20 AM by tiptondevilcat

JSF
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:23:13 AM

athena wrote:

Bobcat Dragon wrote:

If he wants to be aggressive, go to the basket. He's a poor three-point shooter and makes bad decisions behind the arc.

He did go to the basket a good bit. I don't have any stats in front of me, but I believe he went to the FT line more than anyone else on the team did.

Speaking in general terms. He leads the team in three-point attempts, which is not what you want out of a 28% shooter.

Casper71
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:38:19 AM

We shot free throws well during regulation then went thru a stretch in OT where we missed, I think, at least 3 of 4. Miami was lousy with free throws in regulation but come crunch time, I think, they hit at least 6 in a row.

Watching the game on STO, I thought, it was a great Miami vs OU game. The outcome left something to be desired. My take is that we are a below average shooting team that takes a lot of bad shots. I know the coach says we are a three point shooting team but other than that high post pick...do we run anything that gets us to the basket? Does this staff know anything about setting picks to get people open? TF could not shake defenders in the OT periods. Did he even have one shot in theose 15 minutes? Also, way too much finesse and not enough men to hit the boards!

All in all, I am with those that are fearful Groce is not another Billy Hahn type. Time will tell...

tiptondevilcat
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:45:04 AM

As long as you are talking about the seating down in front, I agree. That was a good idea but looked out of place. I think the same thing at BSU even though both sides have press with a cut out for those pricey seats. Looks pretty good at Hinkle for the high rollers who put up a couple hundred a game to sit there but looks strange from what I can see of the Convocation Center on the video feed. I have seen many places that do this but they generally have a lot more room on the sideline. By the way, I really like having the entire sideline dedicated to your students. Sure beats the end lines like Xavier, Butler and many other institutions.

One of the suggestions I would have and see it all the time watching dozens of college games a week is to move your announcers right down to Courtside and have the Ozone surround them with sound and bodies. Always like a courtside call as it seems your video/radio guys make a lot of questionable calls because they can't really see. I count at least 4-5 per game and it drives me nuts. Seems funny that no one may have thought of this but I think you may have more kids show up if they think they will be on TV. Call me crazy but it seems to be a big deal at other campuses.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:47:19 AM

DJ is our best player, no question...But that doesn't necessarily mean he should be our primary shooter. Certainly a lot of this is a product of not having great options otherwise...But that just means we need to work harder at creating other opportunities. This offense just drives me nuts right now. Here are some things we need:

Less 3 pointers from DJ. He has taken more than Tommy...That's just dumb. He's shooting 28% from behind the arc people. I love DJ as much as anyone, but that is not good.
Less 3 pointers from more than 3 feet behind the arc.
Less 3 pointers within 3 seconds of crossing half court and without a single pass.
More desgined plays, general awareness and commitment to get Tommy more open look 3 pointers. News flash, this kid can shoot. Like epicly good shooter. I've said it before, he should be our leading scorer. Think the MAC version of J.J. Reddick.
Tommy to have the guts to take more in your face 3s. He almost never fires it up unless he is insanely open. I like that mentality in general, but he could make a bunch more if he fired up a few in someone's face. He is good enough to do it.
More spot up 3s from Nick. He can shoot.
More balls and a mind for scoring from Ivo. He has been good this year overall, and is just missing one last piece to become a dominant player and the big man we need. I want to see him use his strength and muscle it to the hoop more, or spot up the mid-range jumpers ala KVK. Ivo is shooting over 50% for the year and near the top of the MAC. More shots for Ivo please.
For right now, less for Reggie...He gets butterfingers a lot and just doesn't look comfortable in the paint right now.
Keep a commitment to DeVaughn and hope he plays like the player we all know he can be.
MOVEMENT. Too many guys just standing on the wings, including Tommy & Nick. I know they're spot up shooters, by why not come off a screen, take a pass, then spot up your open 3...Because defending a near 50% 3 point shooter is pretty easy when all he is doing is just standing there watching the PG dribble. Move around more and DJ will find you...He's pretty good at that. Just stand there staring at him, and of course DJ is just gonna try to do it all by himself. MOVE!
More inside out game. There is no rule stating once a ball goes into the paint, it can't come back out. When you have 2 great spot of 3 point shooters out on the wings, this should be a HUGE part of your offense.

The coaches need to really re-think how they're attacking on the offensive side of the ball. And for God's sake teach the players about positioning, boxing out and creating wedge around the bucket to ensure we get the rebound. Basic fundamentals of rebounding has been awful.

I still can't believe we're 7 and freaking 8.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

anorris
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:50:16 AM

Casper71 wrote:

We shot 12 FTs in OT, they shot 20. They were aggressive to the rim, and I don't know if they were just drawing the foul, or if we were getting a bit tired/sloppy on D, but they made 5 more FTs than we attempted in the 3 overtime periods.

JSF
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 10:52:07 AM

Fun fact: Tommy is 45% for his career from three. Redick was 40%.

Last Edited: 1/10/2011 10:52:20 AM by JSF

Bobcat Love
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 11:13:37 AM

Do you really think there is a pre-ordained mission by Groce and Cooper to keep the ball out of Tommy's hands in key situations?

If you watched Charlie in the post game, he said one of their focal points was to keep the ball out of Tommy's hands and they did a good job of it.

Sure, DJ shoots a lot and we have no ability to get the ball outside from the post...but there were 15 extra minutes of overtime yesterday. I like Tommy as much as the next guy, but if he can't get himself open for the look that he wants, I think part of that is on him.

Again, tell me what other offensive options we have aside from these 3:

Freeman wide open 3
DJ Driving Layup
Washington Dunk Inside

That's it! That's all we've got right now as viable offensive options. Also, everyone bitching about Cooper throwing up bad shots...I would argue Hall has throw up some equally bad, early-in-the-possession shots in the past couple games, and we didn't see Nick Kellogg for a LONG stretch of the game after his first 5 minutes yesterday.

Tipton, while you watch the STO replay, watch Kellogg for the first 5 minutes while you pine for more minutes from Ethan and rip the Coaching staff under your breath.

Again, I'm not throwing guys under the bus...but there are simply no other options right now. Maybe Ivo will keep developing his post moves. Maybe Hall will take better shots. Maybe Kellogg will be an option. Right now, it's just not there.

Until there are other options, or until guys show they can create their own opportunities....I'm sitting there with a smile on my face while DJ tries to make something happen for us.

JSF
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 11:51:39 AM

Bobcat Love wrote:

Tipton, while you watch the STO replay, watch Kellogg for the first 5 minutes while you pine for more minutes from Ethan and rip the Coaching staff under your breath.

That's uncalled for. He never mentioned Ethan on this thread. He wants to see the local guy succeed but hasn't criticized his lack of playing time as far as I've seen.

Flomo-genized
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RE: Turning Point....

Posted: 1/10/2011 11:54:45 AM

This seems to me to be a chicken or egg question. Are we running our current system because we lack viable scoring options, or do we presently lack other viable scoring options in part due to the system we are running? You can justify questionable shot selection on the basis that we don't have enough scorers, but it is hard to develop other dependable scoring options when the coaching staff lets 1 or 2 players hoist up bad shot after bad shot early in a possession.

Throughout the Groce era, we have seen him give guys a really long leash when it comes to shot selection. I like that decision to an extent - I don't want guys afraid to take good shots for fear of getting yanked - but like so many things in life that philosophy is not without its limits.

I also can't help but note that for as much as we talk about the lack of an interior game, not once has anyone pointed out the fact that from day one Groce has failed to have an experienced big man on his staff. While I'm sure Dustin Ford is doing his best, I can't help but think that we'd see more development in guys like Keely and Washington if we had a John Rhodes-esque coach on this staff.

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