BobcatAttack.com - For Fans of Ohio University Sports

Welcome Guest!
Create an Account

site search

about us

advertise with us

help

BobcatAttack.com Message Board

Ohio Basketball

Topic: Why are so many people surprised?

Topic: Why are so many people surprised?

Author

Message

Wilson Hall Record Holder
General User

Member Since: 11/13/2010
Post Count: 154

Status: Offline

Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/20/2011 6:58:39 PM

I posted right after the Miami game (which confirmed my long held beliefs) "Welcome to the long season"

To sum up what I said then, this team is horrid (I love'em but it's true) I asked if we will win 8 more games ( we have won once since then so only 7 more to meet my threshold)

I also claimed that we are going to need a monster game from 3 pt land to win any big game. (I give you Akron as exhibit A)

I read all this talk about rebounding this and effort that.

It's really quite simple...this team is horrid. We have absolutely nothing in the front court.

If Washington were any good as a senior he'd fall out of bed on games days into 7 rebounds and then would have to work in order to reach 10 or more.

Keely should either just bulk up so he can get his rebounds by being a space eater or he should just transfer out to a lesser program. He is the complete opposite of the term "difference maker" His quickness and athleticism at this lower weight make no difference at all.

Baltic actually does have game so he gets a qualified exemption. He should, however be only a bench player if we had real talent ahead of him so he could be the quintessential energy effort guy off the bench until his skills become more refined as an upper classman (assuming we don't recruit more talented players who keep him on the bench where his experience would be a huge plus)

I told everyone last year that Ethan is nothing but a project from day one in spite of whatever outside shooting skills he may have (as if the fact that a 7 footer whose number one selling point is his outside shooting isn't a bright enough red flag) What he may or may not become in 2 years also is inconsequential. It would only be icing on the cake (I'm willing to admit that I have a much higher chance of being wrong about Jacobs than about Keely)

If I were on the coaching staff I would only allow recruits to visit when we play Toledo and I would send them video of Stevie Taylor to sell them on the thought of being able to play with him and Cooper next year.

I have said my peace for now but the beauty of this country is that we call all disagree about why our Bobcats are performing as they are.

Here's hoping I'm completely wrong about this team come tournament time.

Bobcat Love
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 1,193

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/20/2011 8:05:02 PM

No idea why, but I'll indulge this.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

I posted right after the Miami game (which confirmed my long held beliefs) "Welcome to the long season"

Good work. You took in 16 games of action before making this earth shattering revelation.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

To sum up what I said then, this team is horrid (I love'em but it's true) I asked if we will win 8 more games ( we have won once since then so only 7 more to meet my threshold)

They aren't horrid. There are some horrid, glaring issues facing the team, but as a collective they are nowhere near horrid. Have you bothered to check in on Toledo, or even big, bad Auburn from the SEC? Those teams are horrid.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

I also claimed that we are going to need a monster game from 3 pt land to win any big game. (I give you Akron as exhibit A)

Now that Nostradamus has joined the board.....guy, if any team gets a "monster game from 3 pt land" - they are probably going to win most games.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

I read all this talk about rebounding this and effort that. It's really quite simple...this team is horrid. We have absolutely nothing in the front court.

Bob Glidden called, he wants your "D-" in PHIL 120 (Basic principles of logic) changed to an F. So basically, we can all talk about rebounding and effort - but that doesn't fly with you because the team is horrid b/c of the frontcourt problems?

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

If Washington were any good as a senior he'd fall out of bed on games days into 7 rebounds and then would have to work in order to reach 10 or more.

Wrong. He's averaged 1, 4, 5, and 5 the past 4 years. Why would you suddenly expect him to start gobbling up everything off the glass? Right or wrong, that's not his game. If you are looking for Rodman-esque performances out of him - you might want to end that thought before it started. I think Devo's got issues, but him not pulling down 10 boards a game isn't really relevant to the issues. By the way, Tillman averaged 8 his Senior Year. Are you saying he only put in 33% effort that year?

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

Keely should either just bulk up so he can get his rebounds by being a space eater or he should just transfer out to a lesser program. He is the complete opposite of the term "difference maker" His quickness and athleticism at this lower weight make no difference at all.

So you want to see Keely as a poor man's Tractor Traylor out there? Asking a current student-athlete to transfer is a bit harsh btw, maybe soften the rhetoric there. I fully disagree - he's a difference maker. Not in the way we want him to be a difference maker, but he makes a difference. This may be the only point you made where I see a glimmer of agreement coming from me to you.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

Baltic actually does have game so he gets a qualified exemption. He should, however be only a bench player if we had real talent ahead of him so he could be the quintessential energy effort guy off the bench until his skills become more refined as an upper classman (assuming we don't recruit more talented players who keep him on the bench where his experience would be a huge plus)

This was just flat out stupid and idiotic. You say he's got game, but in the same sentence say he should be a bench player? Have you watched our games this year? It's not like the flow of the game goes as Ivo goes. Ivo isn't exactly the straw that stirs the drink this year. He's in a perfect role for a sophomore who's improving on a daily basis. He's getting minutes and he has a clear talent base with lots of upside. Also, look at our recruits - he's going to be playing Cooper minutes the next 2 years - there's no size whatsoever to challenge his minutes - so best enjoy him.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

I told everyone last year that Ethan is nothing but a project from day one in spite of whatever outside shooting skills he may have (as if the fact that a 7 footer whose number one selling point is his outside shooting isn't a bright enough red flag) What he may or may not become in 2 years also is inconsequential. It would only be icing on the cake (I'm willing to admit that I have a much higher chance of being wrong about Jacobs than about Keely)

No you didn't. Prove it. I'd venture to say we could poll the entire site and not one person would remember you saying this. Heck, I thought you were a new poster up until this post. Never really gave you much thought. I remember a few posts you made that were incoherent garbledy gook, but nothing memorable. Got a lot of "Mark as Read" when I saw your name pop up. Sidenote, do you think Mark Cuban threw up a bunch of red flags to Nellie about Nowitzki because he played more of a Euro style coming into the Association? Let's see if the guy develops before ranting and raving like lunatics. If you want to rant and rave, do it b/c he gets no minutes for all us amateur coaches to evaluate his game properly.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

If I were on the coaching staff I would only allow recruits to visit when we play Toledo and I would send them video of Stevie Taylor to sell them on the thought of being able to play with him and Cooper next year.

I'd venture to say nobody laughed at this comment like you wanted them too. Not even sure you got the casual raised eyebrow. You took a swing for the green monster and hit a lazy pop fly that the Catcher caught without flipping the mask off for. You're gonna have to bring it a little hard than that.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

I have said my peace for now but the beauty of this country is that we call all disagree about why our Bobcats are performing as they are. Here's hoping I'm completely wrong about this team come tournament time.

You're done? There's an "edit" button and the constitution affords you the freedom to continue. America, Free Speech, and Bobcat Basketball analysis. Almost fits in there like Apple Pie and Betsy Ross at the sewing machine. We have all of 12 games left. I'd have been more impressed or inclined to take this seriously if you were around in October. But again, not sure who you are or what you are about. Just be happy I took the time to comment. Now people will read your work, as crazy as it all is.

UpSan Bobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,812

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/20/2011 8:46:55 PM

Everyone expected a lot more than this, but to call this team "horrid" is a massive overstatement. At worst, this team is an average Division I team, and that's right now. I still see a lot of potential for improvement. I think we're so spoiled by having a winning basketball program that when we are average year, it becomes worse than it really is in those people's minds.

Washington does not rebound as well as we had hoped. We could really use him getting more boards. It's puzzling how a guy so athletic can't out-jump guys for boards. I agree with you on that, but he doesn't, and that's just how it is.

The only knock I have on Baltic is that he seems to get a little shot-happy. He gets the ball and he wants to shoot. That can be a good thing, though. I want guys willing to attack. If he can add more of a power game to the finesse game he has aroudn the hoop, he's going to be awesome.

I like Keely. He does not need to go to to a lesser program. His biggest issue is his hands. When he does catch the ball, he has a nice touch around the basket. I like his hook shot. And he is our best rebounder. I see him developing into a strong contributer.

None of us can say much about Jacobs yet becasue we haven't seen much of him. We probably won't next year either and that's fine. I think I've documented a few cases before of some top MAC players who saw virtually no time as freshmen and sophomores. Sometimes it just takes a little time. You don't have to look any farther than KVK.

I am kind of tired of the negative attitudes. We're going to lose some games this year, but we very well could be 3-1 in the MAC right now and no one would be complaining. Realistically, what can you expect from a team that has three upperclassmen? Most teams this young really would be "horrid."

Andrew Ruck
General User

Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 5,233

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/20/2011 9:11:44 PM

You should change your name to "I Told You So." Seriously.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

BobcatSports
General User

Member Since: 2/2/2006
Post Count: 1,094

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/20/2011 10:20:13 PM

Wison, did you happen to catch much of KVK his freshmen AND sophomore years. Had project written all over him. Turned out pretty decently by his Junior and Senior years in my opinion. So Jacobs is a project, no shame there. With your stellar basketball IQ, check out PITT. They are projected by some experts to be Final Four material. They have two projects, McGhee and Wannemaker, now seniors that could barely walk and chew gum as freshmen.They are now key cogs in the PITT machine. My point, even the "premier" programs that snatch up the McDonalds All-Americans, have their share of projects. This program was "suckerpunched" just before the first jump-ball was thrown up in November when Coleman and A. Kellogg never came out of the lockerroom. Left a HUGE hole and forced Groce to throw a lot of green freshmen directly into the fire. Are we horrid, hardly. Are we a work in progress, definitely. Get some class.

bobcat695
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Parkersburg, WV
Post Count: 1,345

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/20/2011 11:02:40 PM

Clown

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

TheGreenFever
General User

Member Since: 1/18/2011
Post Count: 188

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/21/2011 9:14:36 AM

Horrid? Really? You want to make that statement like that? Have you watched this team? Big Reggie does scare me some but I think he has a good chance of becoming something. Ivo, man, from what I saw last year and this, he's really developing into a good player. He has a great opportunity to have a fantastic career at OU. I haven't seen Jacobs yet but give the kid some time. Love brought up KVK's first couple years and if he's the next KVK, then we are doing okay.

As I remember, this was the exact same way they played last year and look at the results. Bet you were not complaining that certain Thursday night in March when they took a step on the national spotlight. So, will we see a repeat, time will tell. I believe watching the MAC games on TV that I have, the winner of the tourney will be the team that is hot at that time. No team has this locked up yet especially in the East. So, I agree, to tell someone to transfer, well, maybe you should transfer as a fan to another team. The only horrid thing I see on here was your post.

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 1,926

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/21/2011 9:52:09 AM

I don't think the KVK comparisons really apply. KVK played 15 mpg his freshman year. Ethan has played 15 minutes all year.

I'm worried because there is a difference between being a project and not even playing in a 4 OT game when all of our other big men have fouled out.

OU didn't know
General User

Member Since: 3/20/2005
Post Count: 185

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/21/2011 11:40:22 AM

I'm not really surprised, and it's not because of the reasons you listed. We have six freshman and sophomores averaging a total of 134.7 mpg out of the 200 min each game. Sometimes we are starting 4 freshman and sophomores. That's a huge number. With that much youth playing, growing pains are inevitable. Leadership is a big thing too. There are only three upperclassmen on this team, and Tommy is about the only one I would point to as a real leader, and maybe Sayles to a lesser extent.

Losing Bassett, our leading scorer from last year, KVK, and then Coleman and Kellogg before the season was a huge blow. I think many on here had Coleman and Kellogg pegged as starters before the season, or at least major contributors off the bench.

Obviously the silver lining in this whole thing is the youth in the program. The Bobcats should be set for the near future with the talent already here at the G and SF positions and the talent coming in next year. The big issue is of course, THE BIGS. We lose Devo and Sayles and it doesn't appear that we have anyone coming in at this point, though that certainly can change. That leaves us with Baltic, Keely, Jacobs, and I guess Smith if you want to consider him a PF (though he is rather skinny). With how bad rebounding has been this year, it could take a big hit next year unless Keely, Baltic, or Jacobs can step up big time.

Hopefully Groce can snag a quality big in the late signing period. We are desperately going to need the size in the coming years.

Also in regards to Devo's rebounding: Rebounding isn't all about athletic ability or how high you can jump. It is nearly 100% effort (or "want to" as my coach called it) and positioning. There are a lot of guys like Devo that try to rely too heavily on their athletic ability when it comes to rebounding. Many times, they end up trying to out jump guys for rebounds and end up picking up over-the-back fouls. Leon Williams and Jerome were always two guys that were busting their butt underneath the basket to fight for rebounds and get in better position. KVK is the perfect example of this. He isn't half the athlete Devo is but he ended up becoming a better rebounder. Another obvious example is Cooper. He's the smallest guy on the court but he is a tough rebounder because of his instincts. His quickness definitely helps him in that aspect as well.

Last Edited: 1/21/2011 11:41:56 AM by OU didn't know

Steve
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2005
Post Count: 710

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/21/2011 2:00:58 PM

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

I posted right after the Miami game (which confirmed my long held beliefs) "Welcome to the long season"

Your long held beliefs that you got around to mentioning a couple of weeks ago.

PhiTau74
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Columbia, SC
Post Count: 457

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/21/2011 3:18:53 PM

I hate to jump in with a dumb question but I never saw anywhere that Ethan is being re-shirted and just assumed that he was. I think aspects of our game are horrid like offensive rebounding and defense but the team is a work in process. I expect they will have an excellent team next year if we can figure out those two aspects which are definitely a concern.

Last Edited: 1/21/2011 4:18:12 PM by PhiTau74

Jeff McKinney
Moderator

Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,155

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/21/2011 3:28:59 PM

OU didn't know wrote:

The big issue is of course, THE BIGS. We lose Devo and Sayles and it doesn't appear that we have anyone coming in at this point, though that certainly can change.

Goard. And we gotta really hope that we sign one more big in the Spring who can play well immediately.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/21/2011 3:57:29 PM

You mean that my concise summarization of our need for lads of excessive stature is to the point despite the repeated and regular derision it arouses?

Also, you might not be correct if you think that the source of our probems this year is in the youth of our players.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

SBH
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 4,293

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/22/2011 11:14:53 AM

Bobcat Love wrote:

No idea why, but I'll indulge this.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

I posted right after the Miami game (which confirmed my long held beliefs) "Welcome to the long season"

Good work. You took in 16 games of action before making this earth shattering revelation.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

To sum up what I said then, this team is horrid (I love'em but it's true) I asked if we will win 8 more games ( we have won once since then so only 7 more to meet my threshold)

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

I also claimed that we are going to need a monster game from 3 pt land to win any big game. (I give you Akron as exhibit A)

Now that Nostradamus has joined the board.....guy, if any team gets a "monster game from 3 pt land" - they are probably going to win most games.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

I read all this talk about rebounding this and effort that. It's really quite simple...this team is horrid. We have absolutely nothing in the front court.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

If Washington were any good as a senior he'd fall out of bed on games days into 7 rebounds and then would have to work in order to reach 10 or more.

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

Hey Aaron, one day your kids might read your incessant nastiness and wonder what kind of person you were/are. Try some Lexapro, Cymbalta or Paxil, for crying out loud.

Donuts
General User

Member Since: 9/22/2010
Post Count: 730

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/22/2011 11:48:42 AM

You and Monroe should be best friends. Just get together in a room, talk to yourselves, laugh at your own jokes and never hear a word the other is actually saying. Then leave the play date as if you just showed how much smarter you are about everything than anyone else.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/22/2011 2:08:21 PM

Mental health day? Your dog died?--just trying to figure out the reason for your not-very-comprehensible vitriol.

Deciduous Forest Cat
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
Post Count: 4,474

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/22/2011 6:00:52 PM

Ok, I'm not making the judgment here because I've seen very little of this team... but we're 5-8 AT HOME. If that's not horrid, someone needs to define horrid. I mean, an AVERAGE team should win 60-70% of their home games. Figuring they lose that same % on the road, it all evens out. But 5-8?

UpSan Bobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,812

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/22/2011 6:07:00 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

I guess the good thing is we're 3-3 away from home, which is better than an average team would be. However, I'm not sure how long that record is going to hold up.

giacomo
General User

Member Since: 11/20/2007
Post Count: 2,734

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/22/2011 7:21:40 PM

No use debating the long post point by point. We are an average team right now. It may change, it may not. When you're up 18 at half with the biggest crowd of the year and lose, that says something. We didn't lose to a ranked team, we lost to another average to good MAC team. Just playing with energy to that crowd in the second half should get you the win.

anorris
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Location: Bristol, CT
Post Count: 2,262

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/22/2011 8:40:28 PM

giacomo wrote:

Meh about the crowd -- as is typical with dad's weekend, more bodies does not equal more energy. Miami and Kent crowds both were much better as far as energy goes. Not that giving up an 18 point lead is acceptable. Dragon and I discussed this earlier during the game -- remember when we were a 2nd half team? Remember when we did this to George Mason (or for that matter, Buffalo)?

But you're spot on -- we are very average right now, and will probably be ~.500 and ~.500 in conference, if I had to guess.

giacomo
General User

Member Since: 11/20/2007
Post Count: 2,734

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/24/2011 5:35:18 PM

You're right about the crowd. But I can tell you from experience that when you look up and see the big crowd, whether they are vocal or not, does get you excited. An awful lot of things must go wrong for you and right for them to lose a game like that at home after being up 18 at half.

anorris
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Location: Bristol, CT
Post Count: 2,262

Status: Offline

RE: Why are so many people surprised?

Posted: 1/24/2011 7:46:48 PM

giacomo wrote:

...An awful lot of things must go wrong for you and right for them to lose a game like that at home after being up 18 at half.

Certainly can't deny that.

Showing Replies:	1 - 22 of 22 Posts
Jump to Page:	1

View Other 'Ohio Basketball' Topics

There are 156 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com

156 Guests
0 Registered Users

There are no other users looking at this page.