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Topic: Another faculty scandal....

Topic: Another faculty scandal....

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Bobcat Love
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/8/2011 8:38:54 AM

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2011/02/08...

Until the faculty (Athens and Regional) can police their own to create some sort of positive publicity for themselves....I don't have time for Vedder's incessant anti-athletic rambling. Every week there is a new scandal, while I consistently fail to hear about anything positive coming out of the educational side of the University. In a nutshell, the faculty and administration are the ones taking the sheen off Ohio University, while athletics does everything it can to repair the mess these nudniks create.

If Vedder wants to tarnish someone's alma mater, tell him to take his line of B.S. back to Champaign.

Flomo-genized
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Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/8/2011 12:53:02 PM

I'm not sure why exactly it is that you think highlighting these incidents benefits your alma mater, or for that matter has anything to do with criticisms of our athletic spending. For example, this allegation does nothing to change the fact that we got our asses handed to us by a Sun Belt team in an irrelevant bowl game on national television, in a performance that likely harmed our institutional reputation more than a local news report discussing a professor at a branch campus.

In any event, given that an associate athletic director at Ohio was forced to publicly resign less than 4 years ago after getting caught embezzling university funds, one can hardly assert that all embarassing personnel conduct is coming strictly from the academic side of things.

As for your claim that no OU faculty ever engage in significant research, even if one sets aside the questionable assertion that academic research must be published in a major media outlet in order to be significant, your claim also is incorrect as a matter of fact. Just last week came an announcement of major licensing deal for anti-cancer compounds developed at OU:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/02/02/ou-licenses-firm-to-research-cancer-treatment.html?sid=101

For that matter, the very study you are complaining about regarding athletic spending was itself picked up by the vaunted WSJ last week:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703833204576114403232696290.html

Last Edited: 2/9/2011 3:47:40 PM by Jeff McKinney

Bobcat Love
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Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/8/2011 1:27:24 PM

When the poster that you most respect hits you in the mouth, you have to take a pause.

But...

1. Let's talk when this Anti-Ovarian cancer drug is in Stage III trials. This has the potential to be exactly the kind of groundbreaking faculty output I'm talking about, but even at this point - it's too early to speculate. Nonetheless, it is positive press from the educational side of the University, which has been sorely lacking.

2. I look at the WSJ article in the complete opposite. I think think it sheds National light on Vedder's flawed survey methodology and make his entire "study" look like a farce, window dressed with sensationalistic stats and claims.

While I'm not an academic claiming to be able to quantify the $ value of Ohio Athletics, I know it has value far beyond the claims Vedder makes to minimize its impact.

It had (and has) value for me personally, and for others like myself that have made positive contributions to society. I take great exception to anyone that tries to downplay or minimize the role of athletics within the framework of Ohio University, and I won't take the rhetoric sitting back in my easy chair.

Last Edited: 2/9/2011 3:48:09 PM by Jeff McKinney

Flomo-genized
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Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/8/2011 3:02:50 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

My reference to the WSJ's discussion of Vedder's study was tongue in cheek. You previously said that major news courses like the Journal never discuss research conducted at OU, so I thought it was ironic that the very study that motivated your criticism was itself in fact covered by the WSJ.

More importantly, I agree that there is value to athletics beyond what a lot of the critics acknowledge. And I understand that as a community devoted to OU athletics, BobcatAttackers are going to defend the current athletics budget more stringently than most. Indeed, I think it is important that those views get expressed to balance out the criticisms.

I just don't see the value of a campaign highlighting embarassing episodes emanating from our alma mater. The fact that there are a handful of crazy folks working for the university doesn't have any bearing on whether our current athletics spending model is rational or sustainable. And the fact that Vedder has some questionable colleagues doesn't mean that his views about athletics spending are wrong or unjustified. They are totally unrelated issues, so pointing out the embarassing revelations doesn't do any good for athletics as far as I can tell, but instead simply serves to discredit our alma mater.

Last Edited: 2/9/2011 3:48:41 PM by Jeff McKinney

Ohio69
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Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/8/2011 5:09:48 PM

Love -- OU is no more scandulous (or less so) than any other university. We just happen to have a journalism school that teaches public record request classes so we have tons of students (and 2 local papers) continually fishing for public records docs and then playing up anything they find. You know why you don't read this stuff about Wright State or OSU or any other school in Ohio? Nobody is asking for it. Seriously, its that simple.

Last Edited: 2/9/2011 3:49:32 PM by Jeff McKinney

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Panda
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
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Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/8/2011 6:44:46 PM

WSJ writer wrote; "The majority of Ohio Students" ?????? WSJ was provided the info directly to the WSJ by R. Vedder. He has an open door to WSJ for any of his research. WSJ will grab anything he does even though it was a flawed research effort. As one Oregon State professor said about Vedder, his research is "junk science "

Last Edited: 2/9/2011 3:50:18 PM by Jeff McKinney

Panda

intrpdtrvlr
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Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/8/2011 8:33:29 PM

Did I miss a meeting? What in the world does this article have to do with debates about athletics funding?

This is not an us-vs-them, all-or-nothing game. This should not be the terms of the debate and I'm disappointed that people are consistently playing it that way. It's not like when a student-athlete gets in trouble on campus the entire faculty throws a party. Nor does it make any sense to treat this article like some kind of victory for those who want to see athletics funding maintained or increased. The logic of that connection just escapes me. Love, I read your paragraph but really, that's a stretch.

Last Edited: 2/9/2011 3:51:03 PM by Jeff McKinney

BA - Michigan State '03, MA - Ohio '05, PhD - Ohio '15

intrpdtrvlr
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Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/8/2011 8:59:58 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

When the poster that you most respect hits you in the mouth, you have to take a pause.

It had (and has) value for me personally, and for others like myself that have made positive contributions to society. I take great exception to anyone that tries to downplay or minimize the role of athletics within the framework of Ohio University, and I won't take the rhetoric sitting back in my easy chair.

And BLove, I respect your love for OU athletics. Your passion, even when it boils over, is commendable. At the same time, this is the sort of attitude that I think really skews things for some people. You correctly point out the un-recognized (by some) contributions athletics makes to the university and the experience. However, you then turn around and commit the same sin in the other direction. It's really easy to denigrate and minimize the role and quality of faculty when you're not on campus, taking classes and teaching classes. I try to walk both sides of the fence but I take the same exception when people trash the faculty as a whole or discuss them as unnecessary or marginal. We have to find some middle ground.

Last Edited: 2/9/2011 3:51:33 PM by Jeff McKinney

BA - Michigan State '03, MA - Ohio '05, PhD - Ohio '15

giacomo
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Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/9/2011 11:10:26 AM

The WSJ does point something remarkable, if true. The average student only attends 2 sporting events a year? Heck, I go to the opera more than that!

Last Edited: 2/9/2011 3:51:56 PM by Jeff McKinney

Mike Coleman
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/9/2011 4:01:57 PM

giacomo wrote:

The WSJ does point something remarkable, if true. The average student only attends 2 sporting events a year? Heck, I go to the opera more than that!

Actually, it's the average student of the ones who responded to the survey. I think it's been questioned whether the "average student" responded to the survey. After all, the O Zone has more members than total survey respondents, (although even the most vocal Ohio students may want to pay lower fees.)

I think I've read we average 4,000-5,000 students per football game and 1,500 or so per basketball game when school is in session. Throw in hockey (yes, it's club), baseball and volleyball and I wonder if the survey results match with actual attendance.

Flomo-genized
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/9/2011 4:23:56 PM

I'm not sure where he got the numbers from, but I read a comment by Dr. Vedder stating that the students responding to the survey on average actually attended more OU sporting events than the average OU student.

Ozcat
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/9/2011 10:57:01 PM

I have a hard time taking any article, even one in the WSJ, seriously when it starts off by saying "A majority of OU students...." and then two paragraphs later reads "And in the survey--completed by 5% of the student body..."

Since when was 5% a majority?

JSF
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/9/2011 11:12:59 PM

I have a hard time taking the WSJ seriously in general.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/10/2011 4:45:51 PM

I know this is a print article on a broadcast "site" but this is the worst story I've ever read... Am I missing something here?

*******
The student apparently became more afraid after Noroski allowed her to use his calculator for an exam when she had forgotten her own.

She claimed that Noroski called her after the exam to arrange to get the calculator back, and she ended up at his home in Thornville.

After getting a tour of his home, the student said Noroski drove her back to her parents' house. A few days later she e-mailed the university. She wrote, "I was absolutely scared for my life and I thought I was never going to see my family again."
*********

Huh? Seems like there's some missing information here. How does loaning a calculator translate to fearing for one's life? How did she get to his home in the first place? Why would she go there? I'm not saying he didn't have any inappropriate intentions, but this is just horrible journalism.

Last Edited: 2/10/2011 4:47:52 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat

anorris
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/10/2011 7:22:04 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

She claimed that Noroski called her after the exam to arrange to get the calculator back, and she ended up at his home in Thornville.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but The Post's article was much better written, and will I think satisfy your curiosity about chain of events here.

http://www.thepost.ohiou.edu/main.asp?Search=1&Articl...

anorris
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/10/2011 7:34:49 PM

http://www.ohio.edu/compass/stories/10-11/2/2010-annual-m...

An interesting piece about positive vs. negative press on the U.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/10/2011 9:49:59 PM

Ozcat wrote:

If that five percent had been chosen randomly, that wouldn't be such a preposterous statement. The problem here was not the size of the sample but the lack of generalizability to the parent population. The sample was self-selected and not drawn in a scientific manner.

Last Edited: 2/10/2011 9:50:38 PM by OhioCatFan

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Alan Swank
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/10/2011 9:53:20 PM

anorris wrote:

http://www.ohio.edu/compass/stories/10-11/2/2010-annual-m...

An interesting piece about positive vs. negative press on the U.

Talk about a waste of money. The time and effort put into this latest quantity over quality study could have easily sent the track athlete to Washington and paid for football overnights for home games. Do these knuckleheads in Cutler think that the general populace only watches fox news?

Mike Johnson
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/10/2011 10:06:37 PM

Bobcat Dragon wrote:

I have a hard time taking the WSJ seriously in general.

Why do you say that?

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

OhioCatFan
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/10/2011 10:44:03 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

anorris wrote:

http://www.ohio.edu/compass/stories/10-11/2/2010-annual-m...

An interesting piece about positive vs. negative press on the U.

No, they think they only watch MSNBC!

TWT
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/12/2011 12:08:49 PM

Mike Coleman wrote:

giacomo wrote:

The WSJ does point something remarkable, if true. The average student only attends 2 sporting events a year? Heck, I go to the opera more than that!

That is a good point you have to ask the question for all sports. With a strong Volleyball program it can be argued that Ohio finally has a major women's sport to showcase the university. You mention the support numbers above and I would't forget about the postive momentum to increase attendance in the near future; a 3 million dollar increase in ICA next school year, a move to semesters by 2012, nelsonville bypass complete in 2013, IPF probably by 2014, 11% enrollment increase by 2016, rising football and men's basketball programs under Solich and Groce. Ohio is among only a handful of non-BCS schools that can potentially put 10,000 for men's basketball and 25,000 for football in the stands. If Vedder would have come out with this study in the 2003-04 time frame when the football and basketball programs were floundering and overall athletic spending was in the bottom 1/3 of the MAC discussion on moving to DII would have a lot more legs, IMO. Heck I can remember back then the only thing positive I could say about the football program is the new Dakatronics scoreboard (Pete justifiably snickered). Retrospectively 2004-05 was a turning point year; big football win at Kentucky, hiring of Frank Solich, Bobcats playing tough Florida in the NCAAs, most importanly President McDavis hired. Football facility improvements, Family Packs, Bobcat Club, new mascot (and Brutus beatdown), home game scheduling emphasis all followed. The next frontier is to get the football and basketball programs regularly into the top 25 and become a household name in athletics.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

TWT
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RE: Another faculty scandal....

Posted: 2/12/2011 2:11:20 PM

The athletic leadership at the top right now for Ohio is on very solid ground. Think McDavis, Schaus, Solich, Groce, Carbone, and Thice here. McDavis, Schaus, Solich and Carbone are all likely to retire at Ohio. Theis is running a fully loaded Ohio Volleyball program with a constant influx of new talent. Groce will based on the direction of this season will probably be around for 3 more years to build the basketball program. Maybe even more years for Groce because by the time his perfomance at Ohio makes him worthy of a BCS conference offer the committment by Ohio could be there to price him out of the market. Its not really inconcievable at all with a growing budget and i think at worst Groce in a few years will put a stop to all the attrition that has plagued the program over the last 5 or 6 years. I don't see anything out there throwing the key pieces to the athletic department in reverse. There are schools out there in D1 like say Eastern Michigan that are true second rate institutions with leadership constantly in flux and no home crowd support might for whatever reason decide they are wasting their time in D1 and would be better served cutting costs moving to D2. If ICA spending became a real issue at Ohio the only thing you'll see is a freeze for a 5 year or so period with minimal impact to the programs. Beyond that department wide budget cuts by a percentage. Ohio is spending now 2 times what Eastern Michigan is on football and basketball. There is a lot of room to walk the athletic budget back down before the idea of dropping sports below the FBS minimum of 16 would be entertained. At the FCS level they are discussing dropping the number of scholarships to 50 in football and you may see FBS drop down to 75 in turn to cut costs. Structural cost cutting across D1 could indirectly benefit Ohio University. If Vedder thinks students are on the verge of mobilizing on the streets against the administration over their ICA fees like what is going on in Egypt then he is delusional.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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