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Topic: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Topic: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

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TheGreenFever
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Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 11:01:12 AM

Not to down play the way OU played last night, even though it wasn't terrible, I don't do this often but will bring it up when needed. What about the refs last night? I mean several times I saw a charge called a block and I believe it was either Baltic or Tommy but one of them got a nice offensive board (which is rare for us this year) and was surrounded by Cent Mich players and as he went up, he was knocked hard to the floor and the ball was taken by Cent Mich. I mean, where in the hell was the foul!!! Plus, I believe it was at the 50 second mark in the second half when they inbounded the ball and Trey Ziegler caught it over his head and looks like he stepped out of bounds and the trailing ref had his head up instead of concentrating on his foot location!!

I am sorry but yes, OU could have boxed out better again and I hate they rely on 3's too much but I believe someone should review that game and see what the ratio was with fouls called on OU and Cent Mich. I admit I didn't see the entire game but from the parts I did see, it wasn't pretty. I did like the full-court press but unfortunately, C M knew how to get out and nothing you can do about that . Maybe I am wrong, but I didn't like what I saw.

Ohio Hoops
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 11:39:45 AM

Fouls on Ohio: 31
Fouls on Central Michigan: 29

Central Michigan FG %: 51
Central Michigan 3 Pt %: 69

Refs have been bad in the MAC and probably will continue to be for a while. Maybe if Ohio had played better defense then I'd be more inclined to believe the refs had a huge outcome on the game but I don't think they can correlate to that awful 3 point % CMU shot last night.

Ohio69
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 11:47:26 AM

The refs were terrible. But, so was our defense.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

9seed champs
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 12:06:43 PM

I have to vent...so bear with me.

I'm really not all that mad at the Bobcats after last night. I'm not mad at Groce or any of the players (well DJ just a little tiny bit because his shot selection for the first 30 mins wasn't good and I expect more from him).

I'm furious at the officiating...both ways. And I mean that with all sincerity. I don't feel that the Bobcats were hosed or screwed because there are WAY TOO MANY FOULS CALLED IN EVERY GAME...for both teams. I've come to believe that this is not due to lack of talent in the league but lack of knowledgable officials.

Jerry Sauder (or as I call him, Baldy) is absolutely that worst official in any sport, at any level, I have ever seen in my 27+ years of watching sports. He should never, ever, ever be allowed near a MAC game ever again. When I see him walk out on the floor for a game, I feel terrible for both teams and the fans. Most of the MAC bball games, both OU games and non-OU games are painful and embarassing to watch because of the ungodly amount of fouls called in every single game.

I really think that this is why the MAC has lost (is losing) respect nationally because the play is so choppy and interrupted. Basketball is somewhat a contact sport and the quality of product is deteriorating because of the whistles. I recall a game between BG and Miami a few years ago in Cleveland where I nearly walked out because of the fouls that were called (there had to be 60-70 in that game) and last night was really close to that level.

The MAC needs to take a good, hard look at this because when I watch the Big 10, Big 12, ACC, Big East, etc. I do not notice the multitude of fouls being called. It's pathetic for the MAC, it really is.

MAC CHAMPS 2005, 2010, 2012

Pete Chouteau
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 12:13:00 PM

Refs will always be middling in this conference. It is the stratosphere we operate in. It's not life on the road in the MAC, it's just life in the MAC.

I'm far more concerned about the inability to adjust within the flow of the game. The time out called with about 30 seconds left in the first half should have been called amid the possession in which nobody could complete a pass with about 2:45 left.

Freeman hit a pair of threes to make it 8-2, Ziegler called a timeout and Freeman went 1-7 for the rest of the game.

Can anyone name a time in which an opposing player lived similar events?

And Cooper could take some advice and shut his yap when the refs advise him to do so. He picked up a dumb foul going after a miss from the stripe immediately after being told so zip it, and not zipping it.

Dan's Mom
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 12:27:47 PM

When parents are inconsistent . . . . . the children don't know what is allowed of them from one day to the next.

When refs are inconsistent . . . . . the players don't know what's allowed from one end of the court to the other.

Attack U
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 12:41:30 PM

Going over-the-back when rebounding is legal now apparently.

Ohio69
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 12:48:53 PM

9seed champs wrote:

The MAC needs to take a good, hard look at this because when I watch the Big 10, Big 12, ACC, Big East, etc. I do not notice the multitude of fouls being called. It's pathetic for the MAC, it really is.

Agreed. Heck, you could easily see this just turning the channel over to the games on ESPN during timeouts of our game. Its bizarre.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

athena
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 1:45:37 PM

I'm convinced that a few of the MAC officials believe we buy tickets to watch them ref.

Ryan Carey
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 2:15:43 PM

Even for MAC standards, the refs were exceptionally poor last night. How about the blocking call on Freeman, then the alley-oop to Zeigler. Counted the basket, foul on Freeman, ball back to CMU.

STEAL by JACKSON, Derek                         15:24              TURNOVR by Cooper, D.J.
GOOD! DUNK by ZEIGLER, Trey [FB/PNT]            15:18  52-38  H 14
ASSIST by JACKSON, Derek                        15:18
                                                15:17              FOUL by Freeman, Tommy (P3T6)
TIMEOUT media                                   15:16
MISSED 3 PTR by THOMAS, Jalin                   15:13              REBOUND (DEF) by Freeman, Tommy
FOUL by ZEIGLER, Trey (P1T2)                    14:59

They really made the game unwatchable. Between that and the lack of quality lighting at CMU made for a dark night of TV watching.

I'm really glad we turned around he FT shooting in the 2nd half...with CMU shooting < 50% in MAC games this year, I was starting to think maybe their rims weren't regulation size up there.

Ryan M. Carey
BBA 2001

anorris
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 2:28:38 PM

Good point on the lighting, Ryan. Given that the arena just went through pretty extensive renovations, I was very surprised by the poor quality of the lighting.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 2:32:14 PM

Dark night at CMU field house? I thought the lighting in terms of watching it on TV was exceptionally good. I even remarked to my wife that I thought the quality of video (not the choice of shots or angles) was the best I'd every seen for a MAC basketball game. Very sharp HD picture with great illumnation. Perhaps some feeds were better than others for some strange reason. I was watching via TWC in Athens.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Diamond Cat
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 3:40:23 PM

I have dealt with MAC officiating for so long I just learned to stop caring about it. It will happen every single game. The fouls were close but the timing of the calls was a whole different story. After the EMU MAC Tourney Game during the Trent years was over, I just learned to accept it. They are terrible. The bald due is particularly bad. His calls on Devo and Baltic were a joke. No foul called on CMU when Devo had a fast break - are you serious? What part of his body did not get hacked?

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 4:08:23 PM

Ryan Carey wrote:

Even for MAC standards, the refs were exceptionally poor last night. How about the blocking call on Freeman, then the alley-oop to Zeigler. Counted the basket, foul on Freeman, ball back to CMU.

STEAL by JACKSON, Derek                         15:24              TURNOVR by Cooper, D.J.
GOOD! DUNK by ZEIGLER, Trey [FB/PNT]            15:18  52-38  H 14
ASSIST by JACKSON, Derek                        15:18
                                                15:17              FOUL by Freeman, Tommy (P3T6)
TIMEOUT media                                   15:16
MISSED 3 PTR by THOMAS, Jalin                   15:13              REBOUND (DEF) by Freeman, Tommy
FOUL by ZEIGLER, Trey (P1T2)                    14:59

I was irate at that particuar call, first, because it looked like a clear charge. Second, even if it was called a block, how in the world can the basket count AND they get the ball? If there was either a block or a charge (which clearly there was one or the other), how could it not happen before the basket? And if it was something else like a loose-ball foul (it wasn't), then why wouldn't the basket count and we get the ball? In what world do you get benefit of both the basket and possession of the ball?

There were a couple other really bad calls. There was the spin move they called a foul on DeVaughn on that Mix was even commenting on how it sure looked clear to him that it was a charge.

Cleary, MAC officiating is poor on a whole and this was a worst-case scenario. That being said, officiating is not why we lost, and aside from that, we do foul a lot. I'm not sure I agree with those who say MAC officials call too many fouls. In fact, I did a quick calculation. A MAC team averages shooting 20.24 FTs in a MAC game. In non-MAC games, it's 20.49. Some of those may have had MAC officials, but it seems that the number of FTs attempted in MAC play is pretty on par with out-of-conference.

MAC officlas are just inconsistent, like someone else mentioned.

9seed champs
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 7:02:43 PM

Officiating certainly was not the reason we lost. We didn't play well enough...and CMU shot the lights out and hit their FT's. It's just horribly boring to watch a two and a half hour free throw shooting contest. Any contact is a foul and both teams have all of their bigs in foul trouble. Not entertaining to watch by any stretch...it's just not basketball.

MAC CHAMPS 2005, 2010, 2012

OhioCatFan
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/3/2011 7:42:33 PM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

. . . I was irate at that particuar call, first, because it looked like a clear charge. Second, even if it was called a block, how in the world can the basket count AND they get the ball? If there was either a block or a charge (which clearly there was one or the other), how could it not happen before the basket? And if it was something else like a loose-ball foul (it wasn't), then why wouldn't the basket count and we get the ball? In what world do you get benefit of both the basket and possession of the ball?
.

Yes, that was VERY strange. The only think I could figure out was that while the shot was being made some unknown Ohio player committed a foul against another CMU dude (not the guy shooting). The announcers never said that that I heard, but that's the only semi-logical explanation I could come up with.

oubobcatjohn
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/4/2011 1:28:54 PM

Had we continued to attack the rim and not started jacking of bricks and airballs from downtown we might have fouled out more CMU players and scored with the clock stopped and let us set up the press that was working well. We had sucess with Copper attacking the rim, but then we call timeout and have Tommy fire up a brick from some where near Grand Rapids. Then the next possession Cooper fires up one from somewhere near Saginaw. We got from 5 down with ball to 10 down and the momentum swung back to CMU. The refs didn't cost us that game. It was dumb shot selection once again. Coming out of a time out that is on the coach.

SBH
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/4/2011 2:01:46 PM

Better than 50% chance Groce wanted Tommy to get the next shot coming out of the TO. Whether that far out (and I didn't see how far it was because of the crappy camera angle selected by the director) I don't know.

bn9
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/4/2011 2:15:32 PM

oubobcatjohn wrote:

Had we continued to attack the rim and not started jacking of bricks and airballs from downtown we might have fouled out more CMU players and scored with the clock stopped and let us set up the press that was working well. We had sucess with Copper attacking the rim, but then we call timeout and have Tommy fire up a brick from some where near Grand Rapids. Then the next possession Cooper fires up one from somewhere near Saginaw. We got from 5 down with ball to 10 down and the momentum swung back to CMU. The refs didn't cost us that game. It was dumb shot selection once again. Coming out of a time out that is on the coach.

Is there someplace that I can watch this sequence online? I remeber thinking it was a good shot when it happened. WIDE open look from straight away.

anorris
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/4/2011 2:19:25 PM

bn9 wrote:

oubobcatjohn wrote:

Had we continued to attack the rim and not started jacking of bricks and airballs from downtown we might have fouled out more CMU players and scored with the clock stopped and let us set up the press that was working well. We had sucess with Copper attacking the rim, but then we call timeout and have Tommy fire up a brick from some where near Grand Rapids. Then the next possession Cooper fires up one from somewhere near Saginaw. We got from 5 down with ball to 10 down and the momentum swung back to CMU. The refs didn't cost us that game. It was dumb shot selection once again. Coming out of a time out that is on the coach.

Is there someplace that I can watch this sequence online? I remeber thinking it was a good shot when it happened. WIDE open look from straight away.

Same. Unfortunately, I don't think so, because ESPN3.com didn't have the game. It was a shot that Tommy makes at a pretty high percentage, I don't recall thinking it was a bad shot.

bn9
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/4/2011 2:28:03 PM

Ok then, how about some of you technologically gifted people do a screen grab of the shot. If you haven't already erased the game from your archives.

BobcatGman
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/4/2011 4:39:45 PM

oubobcatjohn wrote:

            Spoken like the true arm chair coach your NOT. Ohio down 5, Groce calls timeout with 8:19 left and calls the play. It was a dribble drive play by DJ and kick out to Tommy for an open 3, If you watched the game you would see Tommy's feet are set on the line and not out in Grand Rapids, Tommy had a great wide open look from the top of the key and just plain missed the shot. One he normally makes, but it wasn't meant to be.

   After Tommy's miss at the 8:14 mark, Weary of CMU scores a 2 point bucket, Ohio down by 7, 60 to 53 with 7:58 left, DJ THEN misses a 2 point basket NOT A 3 with 7:49 to play, CMU rebounds then Thomas of CMU burys a 3 to put CMU up by 10, 63 to 53 with 7:33 left, Down 10 DJ then misses a 3 point shot. DJ only took 3 3 point shots the whole game, so it wasn't like he was jackin up 3's from everywhere.

    The fouls was 31 to 29 that doesn't mean squat, Its the crucial times of the game when Ohio would get a ticky tack foul on them, Baltic played 10 minutes for the whole game and Nick had to sit out the final 6:39 of the 1st half due to foul trouble, All 5 starters had 4 fouls and Rico fouled out late in the game. The Refs dictated the game and we lost.

    The 2 most questionable calls, the ally oop dunk play, basket and the ball back and yes CMU player was out of bounds and the refs missed the call.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Dennis "Gman"   "DAGGER TIME"

RSBobcat
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/4/2011 9:45:14 PM

Spoken like the true arm chair coach your NOT. Ohio down 5, Groce calls timeout with 8:19 left and calls the play. It was a dribble drive play by DJ and kick out to Tommy for an open 3, If you watched the game you would see Tommy's feet are set on the line and not out in Grand Rapids, Tommy had a great wide open look from the top of the key and just plain missed the shot. One he normally makes, but it wasn't meant to be.

After Tommy's miss at the 8:14 mark, Weary of CMU scores a 2 point bucket, Ohio down by 7, 60 to 53 with 7:58 left, DJ THEN misses a 2 point basket NOT A 3 with 7:49 to play, CMU rebounds then Thomas of CMU burys a 3 to put CMU up by 10, 63 to 53 with 7:33 left, Down 10 DJ then misses a 3 point shot. DJ only took 3 3 point shots the whole game, so it wasn't like he was jackin up 3's from everywhere.

The fouls was 31 to 29 that doesn't mean squat, Its the crucial times of the game when Ohio would get a ticky tack foul on them, Baltic played 10 minutes for the whole game and Nick had to sit out the final 6:39 of the 1st half due to foul trouble, All 5 starters had 4 fouls and Rico fouled out late in the game. The Refs dictated the game and we lost.

The 2 most questionable calls, the ally oop dunk play, basket and the ball back and yes CMU player was out of bounds and the refs missed the call.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Very good recap - that's exactly the way I saw it................

RS Bobcat

71 BOBCAT
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/5/2011 8:11:44 AM

We can always blame the refs. BUT
Until we learn to play defense we will find it difficult to win on a regular basis.
We can always point to the box score as why we lost, rebounds, 3pt shooting, etc BUT
Until we learn to play defense we will find it difficult to win on a regular basis.
We are not a talented offensive team, we must relay on D to win games.

GO BOBCATS

BobcatGman
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RE: Was it all Ohio's fault last night?

Posted: 2/5/2011 11:07:12 AM

71 BOBCAT wrote:

I agree on the Defense, we're not mentally tough enough to put teams away and play soft and lack that killer instinct. But I have to disagree about us not being talented on Offense.

Ohio leads the MAC in Scoring at 74.0 points a game.

Ohio 2nd in the MAC in FT % 70.4% a game

Ohio 2nd in the MAC in 3 point FG% 35.7%

Ohio leads the MAC in 3 point FG's made with 178

Ohio is 5th in the MAC for FG% game. 43.1%

Ohio 2nd in MAC assists per game. 15.2 apg
--------------------------------------------------

On the National seen.

the 74.0 points a game ranks Ohio 65th Nationally

the 15.2 assists per game ranks 50th Nationally.

178 3's made ranks 32nd Nationally.
---------------------------------------------------

Dennis "Gman" "DAGGER TIME"

Last Edited: 2/5/2011 11:39:54 AM by BobcatGman

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