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Topic: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Topic: Ohio clinches #9 seed

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TWT
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Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 6:43:18 AM

With last nights victory. Ohio is now 7-2 over the last month. Keep the positive momentum going!

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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TheGreenFever
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:58:20 AM

Do you mean they can go no less than a ninth seed because right now they are at the 7th seed which in my book is perfect for them advancing far in the tournament. If they keep the 7th, they most likely will get Central Michigan on Tuesday and then face Western or Ball on noon Thursday. I'd rather face West teams early and get the momentum going to advance to the semis and the 'ship.

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 10:23:48 AM

Obviously, the No. 7 seed is ideal because it likely means not playing an East team before the semis.

If Buffalo beats Kent State tonight, we'd only be two back of first place with three games to go. Another long shot, but we still could be seeded anywhere from 1-9 at this point.

Also, the mention of playing at noon, I don't think is official. I don't think they have determined times for each of the quarterfinal games. They usually don't do that until the week of the games. The MAC website has all the times listed as TBA.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 11:22:10 AM

It was great that the Bobcats won last night over BGSU, or course, but by my estimation we received NO help in the other games across the MAC. It especially hurts that CMU won on the road at NIU.

Our three remaining games are all going to be exceedingly tough. CMU is hanging around ready to steal the #8 seed from us and push us into the #9 seed. This could happen (someone correct me if I'm wrong) even if we finish 8-8.

That loss at CMU could come back to haunt us.

anorris
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 11:27:17 AM

TheGreenFever wrote:

Correct on it being no less than a nine. The conference is so wide open right now, if we won out and the cards played right, I believe we could still mathematically win. I think 6-8 is much more likely.

Also, I think we would be eighth as of today as BG would hold the tiebreaker over us by virtue of their victory over Miami. A UB loss tonight would create a three way tie, slotting BG sixth, Buffalo seventh, and us eighth, if my rule interpretations are accurate.

Last Edited: 2/24/2011 11:29:07 AM by anorris

JSF
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 12:40:36 PM

Tiebreaker rules changed this year. Division record is now the first tiebreaker after head-to-head.

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Flomo-genized
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 12:45:55 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Our three remaining games are all going to be exceedingly tough. CMU is hanging around ready to steal the #8 seed from us and push us into the #9 seed. This could happen (someone correct me if I'm wrong) even if we finish 8-8.

That loss at CMU could come back to haunt us.

Jeff, I think you're right that we could theoretically finish 8-8 but still get the 9th seed. There are any number of scenarios that could result in us opening on the road depsite breaking even (for instance, CMU, BGSU,and Buffalo all finish 9-7 or better, or we finish in a head-to-head tie with CMU for 8th). However, I think that the odds of getting a home game would probably be in our favor should we win one more game, as there are is a pretty good chance that either CMU loses two more times or BGSU loses out (either of which would clinch us the 8th seed at 8-8), plus some multi-way tie-break scenarios that would give us a home game.

In any event, I agree that our three remaining games will be tough. I have a bad feeling about the Akron game next week, given that they are on fire right now and will be highly motivated for revenge after losing to us earlier with all the trash talking, etc. (Ken Pomeroy currently has us a slight underdog at home to the Zips). Plus we never win at Kent, and rarely win in Oxford. We still have a lot of work to do if we want to assure ourselves of a first round home game, let alone the preferable 7th seed.

anorris wrote:

Also, I think we would be eighth as of today as BG would hold the tiebreaker over us by virtue of their victory over Miami. A UB loss tonight would create a three way tie, slotting BG sixth, Buffalo seventh, and us eighth, if my rule interpretations are accurate.

Yes and no. You are correct that as of this moment, BG would be 7th and we would be 8th by virtue of their win over Miami, since we split head-to-head with BG, and have an identical record versus the Eastern Division.

However, if Kent beats UB tonight, then we will be 7th for the time being. In that case, there would be a three-way tie between BGSU, UB and Ohio at 7-6, with the first tie-breaker being head-to-head records. BG would be 2-1 vs. UB and Ohio, Ohio would be 2-2 vs. UB and BGSU, while UB would be 1-2 vs. Ohio and BGSU. As a result, BG would be 6th, Ohio 7th, and UB 8th.

Long story short, we are best off rooting for BGSU, UB, and CMU to all lose as much as possible, and for Ohio to win at least one more game.

Last Edited: 2/24/2011 12:47:22 PM by Flomo-genized

anorris
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 12:51:30 PM

Dragon, I am aware of that -- we and BG are both 3-4 vs. the East. Should Buffalo lose, they will be 3-4 as well.

Flomo: "NOTE: Once a three-team tie has been reduced to two teams, the two-team tiebreaker will go into effect."

http://mac-sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9400&ATC...

UB would beat us out with their first win against Kent.

Last Edited: 2/24/2011 12:57:37 PM by anorris

Flomo-genized
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 12:56:15 PM

I stand corrected. Good catch, anorris.

OUVan
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 1:50:15 PM

Bobcat Dragon wrote:

Tiebreaker rules changed this year. Division record is now the first tiebreaker after head-to-head.

That doesn't seem fair. Teams from the East are going to be at severe disadvantage. That is fine if the tied teams are from the same division but if they are from different divisions it really hurts the team from the stronger division. They should make it your record against the Division of the team you are tied with compared to their record against yours.

mcbin
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:06:17 PM

Flomo-genized wrote:

Long story short, we are best off rooting for BGSU, UB, and CMU to all lose as much as possible, and for Ohio to win at least one more game.

Got one tonight here... Kent held off UB at home tonight. 72-69

TheGreenFever
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/25/2011 9:45:39 AM

Quote:

Also, the mention of playing at noon, I don't think is official. I don't think they have determined times for each of the quarterfinal games. They usually don't do that until the week of the games. The MAC website has all the times listed as TBA.

No, you are right UpSan about the time. But, I've just noticed that in the past years of my MAC tourney travels, they have the number 2 seed play at noon. So, if we get that seven seed and win Tuesday night, I have to make sure to be there by noon but hopefully I won't be so rushed. Especially since my little girl doesn't go to school til 9:40 that day and it takes 2 1/2 hours to get to Cleveland. Ouch!!

JSF
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/25/2011 11:58:27 AM

Times won't be set until the quarterfinals are determined. I would expect Kent and Akron to play in the evening.

Flomo-genized
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/25/2011 3:13:42 PM

OUVan wrote:

Bobcat Dragon wrote:

Tiebreaker rules changed this year. Division record is now the first tiebreaker after head-to-head.

I had the same thought at first, but the more I think about it the more I think that it makes sense. Because head-to-head is the first tie-breaker, I believe the intra-divisional record tie-breaker will only come into play when two teams from the same division are tied. In other words, because East teams only play West teams once per year, any tie between two teams from different divisions will always be broken by head-to-head record.

Even in the case of a multi-way tie, the tie would first be broken by selecting the team with the best head-to-head record amongst the group, followed by the team with the best head-to-head record among the remaining teams, and so on until only two teams remain. The remaining two teams would then be sorted based on their head-to-head record, so again here, the intra-divisional record would only come into play if the two tied teams are from the same division.

I'm not sure if the MAC office actually thought it through like that or not, of course, but in the end it seems to make sense.

anorris
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/26/2011 10:59:01 AM

Good point Flomo. The only way it will favor the West (or weak division in the future) would be a four-way tie between two East and two West teams who all have the same (2-2) record amongst one another, which even in this tie-happy league seems unlikely.

cc-cat
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/26/2011 11:37:28 PM

how bout an update based on tonight's win and other games - Akron over Buf, etc.

Ted Thompson
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/26/2011 11:50:52 PM

cc cat wrote:

how bout an update based on tonight's win and other games - Akron over Buf, etc.

Started another thread, 'MAC Tourney if Today'.

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Flomo-genized
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/27/2011 10:36:39 AM

So this took a lot longer than I thought it would, but in short we have not yet clinched a first round home game. But we're close.

We are basically competing with four teams to avoid the 9th seed: CMU (6-8), BGSU (7-7), and Buffalo (7-7). Ohio can finish no worse than 8-8. CMU would have to win out to finish 8-8 (at Toledo, vs. WMU). Meanwhile, either BGSU (vs. Kent, vs. Buffalo) or UB (vs. Miami, at BGSU) is guaranteed to finish no better than 8-8, as they play each other in the season finale.

We will clinch at least the 8th seed should any one of the following occur:

Ohio wins one more game
CMU loses one more game
BGSU loses two more games
Buffalo loses two more games

However, should Ohio lose out, CMU win out, and both BGSU and Buffalo win at least one of their last two games, then then we'd be in either a 3-way or 4-way tie with CMU and either/both BGSU and Buffalo. This is where things get complicated.

In a 3-way tie between Ohio, CMU, and BGSU (i.e., Ohio loses out, CMU wins out, Buffalo wins out, and BGSU beats Kent but loses to Buffalo), CMU would win the 7th seed by having gone 2-0 vs. Ohio and BGSU. BGSU and Ohio split head-to-head, so the next tie-breaker would be intra-divisional record. In this hypothetical, both Ohio and BGSU would be 4-6. Thus, we'd proceed to best record vs. the first seed, second seed, and so on, until the tie is broken. This gets messy, as a number of different teams could still win the #1 seed. Because Ohio and BGSU would have the same head-to-head record vs. Kent, Ball State, and WMU, the tie-breaker would come down to whether Akron or Miami finished higher. If Akron, Ohio would win the 8th seed. If Miami finishes better, BGSU would finish 8th, and Ohio 9th.

In a 3-way tie between Ohio, CMU, and Buffalo (i.e., Ohio loses out, CMU wins out, BGSU wins out, and Buffalo beats Miami but loses to BGSU), Buffalo would win the 7th seed by going 2-1 vs. us and CMU. That would leave us in a head-to-head tie with CMU, who would get the 8th seed by having beaten us.

In a 4-way tie between Ohio, CMU, Buffalo, and BGSU (i.e., Ohio loses out, CMU wins out, and Buffalo and BGSU both split), CMU would be 2-1 vs. the other three tied teams, Ohio would be 2-3, Buffalo would be either 3-2 or 2-3 (depending on who wins UB-BGSU), and BGSU would be either 3-2 or 2-3 (depending again on who wins UB-BGSU). In this case, CMU would win the 6th seed, and the winner of Buffalo-BGSU would win the 7th seed. We'd be tied with the loser of Buffalo-BGSU for the 8th seed. Because we split with both, we'd go to intra-divisional records, which would again be tied (4-6 in this scenario for Ohio, BGSU, and UB). Then it would again come down to who has the best record against the highest finishing team. Versus BGSU, it would again depend on whether Akron or Miami finishes higher. Versus Buffalo, UB would win if WMU wins the West, while Ohio would win if Ball State wins the West (we would both be 1-1 vs. potential East champs Kent, Miami, and Akron).

So, in short, the 9th seed is still a possibility if we lose twice. Hopefully we take care of business vs. Akron and make this all moot.

Last Edited: 2/27/2011 10:55:32 AM by Flomo-genized

TWT
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/27/2011 5:43:46 PM

All I can say about beating Kent on the road is wow! At this point after going 8-2 over the last month the sky is the limit for the MAC tourney. If the cats can earn a #7 or higher it will be of great strategical advantage. A 9 seed as we all know would be a road game but 8 seed would be a tough MAC game at home. Moving up to a #7 seed gives Ohio 1) An easy first round home game against EMU or NIU, 2) An easy quarterfinal game against BSU or WMU with the home crowd at our back in Cleveland. A #6 seed or #5 seed actually makes things harder for us in Cleveland having to go through Kent, Akron, or Miami. A #4 seed (possible if we beat Akron) gives Ohio a bye but doesn't really help in the second round. I would not be surprised if Ohio closed out the final 2 contests with wins.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/27/2011 6:04:12 PM

Flomo, that is an AMAZING post! Thank you so much for the effort you put into that.

We just need to take care of business vs. Akron at the Convo Tuesday night to clinch the home game...it will probably not be easy. Hopefully, Akron is due for something of an "off" game, though they are extremely hot right now.

JSF
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RE: Ohio clinches #9 seed

Posted: 2/27/2011 6:20:35 PM

Could argue the same for us.

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