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Topic:  Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up

Topic:  Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 1:51:05 PM 
I'm empathetic to the position of faculty, but he really crossed the line in my book:

http://www.thepost.ohiou.edu/main.asp?SectionID=1&Sub...

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 2:02:09 PM 
Agreed 100%.  I'll bite my tongue and leave it at that, for now.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 2:20:19 PM 

I also agree 100%.

All of a sudden it seems to have  gotten stylish to compare people you don't agree with  to Mubarik.
 
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anorris
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 2:27:09 PM 
I'm extremely upset that a portion of my tuition is putting food on his table. Should I circulate a survey to this effect in the O Zone tonight? That should be a good, representative sampling, after all.
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intrpdtrvlr
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 2:31:36 PM 
Egh.  Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have framed things that way.  It's so crass and opportunistic of a comparison. 

BA - Michigan State '03, MA - Ohio '05, PhD - Ohio '15
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 2:36:01 PM 
anorris wrote:
I'm extremely upset that a portion of my tuition is putting food on his table. Should I circulate a survey to this effect in the O Zone tonight? That should be a good, representative sampling, after all.


Heh, I've been debating an 'official' O Zone survey.  It wouldn't be any less scientific than the crap athletics bashers have been putting out lately.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 2:50:09 PM 
Why would you expect an "associate professor of classics and world religions" to have any meaningful input during a debate on fiscal policy? Why even give this nudnik a forum?

It's insulting (and plain stupid) to compare McDavis to Mubarak. Just shows his lack of class and intelligence.

That's a guy who should take the buyout and quit fleecing the University for a paycheck every 2 weeks.

Last Edited: 2/23/2011 2:50:43 PM by Bobcat Love
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Bobcatbob
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 2:54:03 PM 
And who should be more insulted, Dr. McD. or the administration officers who do have the designated authority to do just what they're doing in everyone's behalf?

Apparently Dr. McD is whole lot more indispensible than I thought if he has to attend every meeting where a critical proposal is even considered.

Sounds like if he goes, as suggested, OU will be in a world of hurt.
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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 3:35:02 PM 
Wow, what a childish and embarrassing display from our "higher learned". IF this is the level of intellectual competence that is truly dealing with solutions to our economic distress, I fear for the entire University's future, not just the Athletic Department.
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Speaker of Truth
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 4:13:09 PM 
I got a question and I am not trying to be offensive, but wouldn't a good question to this guy be- What does a classics and world religions program bring to a university?
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oldkatz
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 4:15:09 PM 
Someone call the hyperbole police!  Any minute shred of Hays' credibility is on the 4:11 express to Buffonville. 

"All my inside sources tell me I have no inside sources." Salvatore "money bucks" Mafiosiano.
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bobcat695
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 4:19:13 PM 
My favorite part of the story is when Hays rips McDavis for hanging out with rich alumni.  Where the hell does he think the OU Foundation money comes from?  He is getting dangerously close to me driving over for the next public forum and asking him to lay out what he does to contribute to a productive society.  Knowing dead languages and religions are not qualities I look for when I am hiring OU students at my firm.  I am not sure what authority McDavis ultimately has over this guy, but if I ever had an employee talk about me like that, their next paycheck would be their last one. 

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

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PutnamField
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 5:35:43 PM 
It's agreed that this guy is not an effective voice for the position that ICA is overvalued and that the administration is part of the problem. Those are not smart comments to make IMO unless you have more to back up the assertion that McDavis is personally driving the institutional (over)commitments you're trying to protest.

Just remember, though, that there are something like 2,000 OU faculty members out there, and Hays is almost certainly not speaking for all of the ones who might at least partially agree with him.

Also, some of you are matching this one guy's strident overreaching and making comments to the effect of saying that any area of academic concentration that isn't directly related to working in the contemporary business world is irrelevant and wasteful. You're one step away from calling for the abolishing of the history department! Some things have intrinsic value, and I would suggest that having an expert on Latin and ancient Greek around is no less worthwhile than having someone who's plugging away at developing technologies for ionospheric heaters and restless leg syndrome medications. 

But yeah, he should zip it or refine his message.

Last Edited: 2/23/2011 5:41:21 PM by PutnamField
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 6:10:34 PM 
anorris wrote:
I'm extremely upset that a portion of my tuition is putting food on his table. Should I circulate a survey to this effect in the O Zone tonight? That should be a good, representative sampling, after all.


Hmm . . . well at least as good a sample as one recent study reported recently in local, state and national press like the ANews, The Post, The Athens Messenger, The Columbus Dispatch, and the Wall Street Journal.  

I say, go for it and send the results to the aforementioned esteemed media outlets.  

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 6:22:56 PM 
bobcat695 wrote:
My favorite part of the story is when Hays rips McDavis for hanging out with rich alumni.  


I thought that was funny as well. 
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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 10:27:53 PM 
oldkatz wrote:
Someone call the hyperbole police!  Any minute shred of Hays' credibility is on the 4:11 express to Buffonville. 


For damn sure.
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intrpdtrvlr
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 11:11:43 PM 
PutnamField wrote:
It's agreed that this guy is not an effective voice for the position that ICA is overvalued and that the administration is part of the problem. Those are not smart comments to make IMO unless you have more to back up the assertion that McDavis is personally driving the institutional (over)commitments you're trying to protest.

Just remember, though, that there are something like 2,000 OU faculty members out there, and Hays is almost certainly not speaking for all of the ones who might at least partially agree with him.

Also, some of you are matching this one guy's strident overreaching and making comments to the effect of saying that any area of academic concentration that isn't directly related to working in the contemporary business world is irrelevant and wasteful. You're one step away from calling for the abolishing of the history department! Some things have intrinsic value, and I would suggest that having an expert on Latin and ancient Greek around is no less worthwhile than having someone who's plugging away at developing technologies for ionospheric heaters and restless leg syndrome medications. 

But yeah, he should zip it or refine his message.


Amen there at the end, Putnam, on both the paragraph and the final sentence.  I will give the board credit; I'm hearing less and less "faculty are using athletics as a scapegoat to avoid looking in the mirror and making cuts of their own."  If you look at the buyouts being offered, changes to employee healthcare, etc., that's an increasingly less tenable position to take if it ever held water and to Bobcat Attack's credit, talk like that has died down.  We're not talking fewer ferraris in faculty garages but larger class sizes, less experienced educators, and the stuff that hits directly to the academic side of the university experience.  Everyone is hurting.

BA - Michigan State '03, MA - Ohio '05, PhD - Ohio '15
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anorris
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 11:16:48 PM 
intrpdtrvlr wrote:
PutnamField wrote:
It's agreed that this guy is not an effective voice for the position that ICA is overvalued and that the administration is part of the problem. Those are not smart comments to make IMO unless you have more to back up the assertion that McDavis is personally driving the institutional (over)commitments you're trying to protest.

Just remember, though, that there are something like 2,000 OU faculty members out there, and Hays is almost certainly not speaking for all of the ones who might at least partially agree with him.

Also, some of you are matching this one guy's strident overreaching and making comments to the effect of saying that any area of academic concentration that isn't directly related to working in the contemporary business world is irrelevant and wasteful. You're one step away from calling for the abolishing of the history department! Some things have intrinsic value, and I would suggest that having an expert on Latin and ancient Greek around is no less worthwhile than having someone who's plugging away at developing technologies for ionospheric heaters and restless leg syndrome medications. 

But yeah, he should zip it or refine his message.


Amen there at the end, Putnam, on both the paragraph and the final sentence.  I will give the board credit; I'm hearing less and less "faculty are using athletics as a scapegoat to avoid looking in the mirror and making cuts of their own."  If you look at the buyouts being offered, changes to employee healthcare, etc., that's an increasingly less tenable position to take if it ever held water and to Bobcat Attack's credit, talk like that has died down.  We're not talking fewer ferraris in faculty garages but larger class sizes, less experienced educators, and the stuff that hits directly to the academic side of the university experience.  Everyone is hurting.
Agreed.  There is absolutely a discussion to be had around this issue, and many others, I am just rather fed up with much of the overblown rhetoric from the same three people.  Vedder's survey, flawed as I feel it was, did at least raise some points of discussion.  This is just nonsense.
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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 11:17:06 PM 
intrpdtrvlr wrote:
PutnamField wrote:
It's agreed that this guy is not an effective voice for the position that ICA is overvalued and that the administration is part of the problem. Those are not smart comments to make IMO unless you have more to back up the assertion that McDavis is personally driving the institutional (over)commitments you're trying to protest.

Just remember, though, that there are something like 2,000 OU faculty members out there, and Hays is almost certainly not speaking for all of the ones who might at least partially agree with him.

Also, some of you are matching this one guy's strident overreaching and making comments to the effect of saying that any area of academic concentration that isn't directly related to working in the contemporary business world is irrelevant and wasteful. You're one step away from calling for the abolishing of the history department! Some things have intrinsic value, and I would suggest that having an expert on Latin and ancient Greek around is no less worthwhile than having someone who's plugging away at developing technologies for ionospheric heaters and restless leg syndrome medications. 

But yeah, he should zip it or refine his message.


Amen there at the end, Putnam, on both the paragraph and the final sentence.  I will give the board credit; I'm hearing less and less "faculty are using athletics as a scapegoat to avoid looking in the mirror and making cuts of their own."  If you look at the buyouts being offered, changes to employee healthcare, etc., that's an increasingly less tenable position to take if it ever held water and to Bobcat Attack's credit, talk like that has died down.  We're not talking fewer ferraris in faculty garages but larger class sizes, less experienced educators, and the stuff that hits directly to the academic side of the university experience.  Everyone is hurting.



If SB 5 passes then regular elementary and high school teachers are in for a rude awakening.  This bill may save the state some cash, but teachers just lost their ability to strike.  Sure...they still can....but boreds of education can now legally hire PERMANENT replacements to take their place.  Duh....a no-strike clause for sure.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 11:24:56 PM 
I am a fan of the classics department.  Some of my favorite classes were from there.  Real good critical thinking challenges to be found.  On the other hand, I never had a class with Hays.

If you look at the comments, he defends his comparison, but it doesn't work for me.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 11:38:22 PM 
As I said previously, head for high ground...  I'm sick of this garbage.  Time to make some enemies.  

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=152271574828874

What frustrates me the most with athletic spending bashers are the bubbles they seem to live in.  I know more kids who care about athletics than kids who do not.  Yes, that is part of the people I choose to associate myself with...  At least I recognize the multiple parties to the issue.  Many of the athletics bashers don't realize people like us exist, or don't want to admit it.  They'd do well to leave Ellis Hall or wherever the heck they are held up in...  They act like statements such as "I've never been to one football game in my four years here" give them credibility.  Hah, please.  These aren't average OU students, I question if they could even tell me what a Court Street Shuffle is... 

Last Edited: 2/23/2011 11:42:16 PM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/23/2011 11:49:32 PM 
anorris wrote:
intrpdtrvlr wrote:
PutnamField wrote:
It's agreed that this guy is not an effective voice for the position that ICA is overvalued and that the administration is part of the problem. Those are not smart comments to make IMO unless you have more to back up the assertion that McDavis is personally driving the institutional (over)commitments you're trying to protest.

Just remember, though, that there are something like 2,000 OU faculty members out there, and Hays is almost certainly not speaking for all of the ones who might at least partially agree with him.

Also, some of you are matching this one guy's strident overreaching and making comments to the effect of saying that any area of academic concentration that isn't directly related to working in the contemporary business world is irrelevant and wasteful. You're one step away from calling for the abolishing of the history department! Some things have intrinsic value, and I would suggest that having an expert on Latin and ancient Greek around is no less worthwhile than having someone who's plugging away at developing technologies for ionospheric heaters and restless leg syndrome medications. 

But yeah, he should zip it or refine his message.


Amen there at the end, Putnam, on both the paragraph and the final sentence.  I will give the board credit; I'm hearing less and less "faculty are using athletics as a scapegoat to avoid looking in the mirror and making cuts of their own."  If you look at the buyouts being offered, changes to employee healthcare, etc., that's an increasingly less tenable position to take if it ever held water and to Bobcat Attack's credit, talk like that has died down.  We're not talking fewer ferraris in faculty garages but larger class sizes, less experienced educators, and the stuff that hits directly to the academic side of the university experience.  Everyone is hurting.
Agreed.  There is absolutely a discussion to be had around this issue, and many others, I am just rather fed up with much of the overblown rhetoric from the same three people.  Vedder's survey, flawed as I feel it was, did at least raise some points of discussion.  This is just nonsense.


BINGO.

The best letter to date was from Bernhard Debatin, from the Journalism Department.  Suggested a drop to DIII Football.    Right.  We average roughly 15,000 at football games, but it makes sense that we should drop to a division where the Champioship game (Stagg Bowl, right?) is played in a stadium that seats 8,000.  Ha. Ha. Ha.  This is the kind of crap that tells me many of these faculty members are yelling to make noise, but have no clue what they are really talking about.

I just hope I don't see Debatin or Hays walking around Athens one of these days, I might cause a scene yelling too loud.    

Last Edited: 2/24/2011 12:01:00 AM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/24/2011 1:34:17 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
As I said previously, head for high ground...  I'm sick of this garbage.  Time to make some enemies.  

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=152271574828874

What frustrates me the most with athletic spending bashers are the bubbles they seem to live in.  I know more kids who care about athletics than kids who do not.  Yes, that is part of the people I choose to associate myself with...  At least I recognize the multiple parties to the issue.  Many of the athletics bashers don't realize people like us exist, or don't want to admit it.  They'd do well to leave Ellis Hall or wherever the heck they are held up in...  They act like statements such as "I've never been to one football game in my four years here" give them credibility.  Hah, please.  These aren't average OU students, I question if they could even tell me what a Court Street Shuffle is... 


I've never done a Court Street Shuffle.  Neither has Alex.  Are we not OU students?

And I don't see any athletics bashing there.  It's more of an anti-corporate stance.  Plus, I was invited by one of the student body's biggest sports fans.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/24/2011 1:50:17 AM 
Bobcat Dragon wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
As I said previously, head for high ground...  I'm sick of this garbage.  Time to make some enemies.  

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=152271574828874

What frustrates me the most with athletic spending bashers are the bubbles they seem to live in.  I know more kids who care about athletics than kids who do not.  Yes, that is part of the people I choose to associate myself with...  At least I recognize the multiple parties to the issue.  Many of the athletics bashers don't realize people like us exist, or don't want to admit it.  They'd do well to leave Ellis Hall or wherever the heck they are held up in...  They act like statements such as "I've never been to one football game in my four years here" give them credibility.  Hah, please.  These aren't average OU students, I question if they could even tell me what a Court Street Shuffle is... 


I've never done a Court Street Shuffle.  Neither has Alex.  Are we not OU students?

And I don't see any athletics bashing there.  It's more of an anti-corporate stance.  Plus, I was invited by one of the student body's biggest sports fans.

Neither have I, yet, but you know what one is...  And I did say "average" OU student. You're above average.  
Seriously though, the kids in the Student Senate aren't your typical OU student, nor are the kids parading these campaigns around hailing Hays as a savior from Mubarak.  This might draw 500.  The fests draw 5000.  That is your average Ohio, like it or not.

Steve Hays is speaking, as is Debatin.  The professors lined up are all from one side of the spectrum at Ohio, and it's the same side that has made most (not all) of the noise on athletics.  Just look at the categories...  A classics and world religions professor on Athletics and the Budget, but an Art prof for Art and the Budget.  Ridiculous bias at this conference that is supposedly a fair "discussion."  

Last Edited: 2/24/2011 1:59:24 AM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Kinggeorge4
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  Message Not Read  RE: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
   Posted: 2/24/2011 7:35:51 AM 

Steve Hays actions in the forum crossed the line big time.  Refering to McDavis as Dad and comparing him to the Egypt's ex-leader were totally uncalled for.  The sad part was the number of faculty that applauded him for these statements.  Of course the Post reporters ran after him after the forum to get their quote from Ohio University's number 1 embarrassment. 

Not all faculty are like him and the handful that are screaming, but they haven't done much to silence this group either.

GO BOBCATS
GEORGE

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