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Ohio Basketball

Topic: Continuity

Topic: Continuity

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JSF
General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

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Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 1:47:24 PM

One of the most overlooked aspects of successful teams is continuity. We expect senior-laden squads to do well because they have played with each other for a long time. It's why the best NBA teams are the ones that seem to have been playing together forever. It's why people are saying, "Just wait for Amare' and Carmelo to get used to each other." You can't fake it, you can only develop it.

Under Groce, we've lacked year-to-year continuity. However, the last two seasons, the staff has been able to foster a growth of it within the season. If you watch the last couple games and compare them to earlier in the season, you see players that know their roles, players familiar with one another, rotations that are predictable. That wasn't happening at the beginning of the year. It takes time.

There are several reasons why we didn't have any carryover from last year. The first and most obvious is the defections. We lost two critical players in the offseason in addition to role players, and I don't know of many teams that would be able to quickly rebound from that. Those defections forced the freshmen into larger roles before ready than they otherwise would have assumed. Ric and TJ are just now figuring things out. Second, and this is related to the first, we had players taking on very different roles from a season ago. Ivo went from the bottom of the rotation to heavy minutes, for instance. It takes time to acclimate people to each other, and practice only goes so far in accomplishing that.

But things have been normalized and we're seeing rapid development. One of the biggest reasons that DJ is taking fewer bad shots, in addition to just being smarter, is he has a better understanding of his teammates and how best to get them the ball in a position to score. He rarely passes into a bad situation. His teammates know if they get good position, they will be rewarded.

And defense is almost entirely dependent on continuity. It takes time to learn defensive principles, rotations, and assignments. We've gotten a lot better here, too. And I don't think we're doing improving.

You may remember I was one of the few skeptical about our prospects this year. I'm very optimistic about next year, though, if we get through the summer without major losses. This is a team getting to know itself and beginning to realize its potential. Ivo Baltic is one of the hardest workers we've had in Athens. Reggie Keely is quietly showing improvement and is ready to take a step up. DJ Cooper is spreading his wings. Nick Kellogg is ready to take the torch from Tommy Freeman. Ricardo Johnson is looking like a possible defensive stopper in the making.

We don't have a ton of size and we won't next year, but you know... I don't think that will be a huge problem.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

intrpdtrvlr
General User

Member Since: 7/8/2010
Post Count: 177

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RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 2:02:17 PM

Line-up looks really good for next year. You can start Reggie and Ivo in the frontcourt with Jon Smith and Jacobs backing them up. Then, the guard positions are loaded. Of course, DJ will start. I imagine Nick Kellogg has the advantage for the other spot. You use Offutt, Johnson, or Hall at the three with the other two coming in off the bench. Your back-up PG is Stevie Taylor. That is a solid, solid 10 man unit and I haven't even mentioned the other freshmen.

Last Edited: 3/2/2011 2:03:16 PM by intrpdtrvlr

BA - Michigan State '03, MA - Ohio '05, PhD - Ohio '15

JSF
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RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 2:11:03 PM

I see a lot of flexibility in the starting lineup. Jon Smith has been an absolute beast in practice, just killing the guys, and I can't imagine him not starting at some point, if not most of the season. Jacobs will have to get a lot better over the summer to crack the rotation. A nine-man rotation (minus Jacobs) looks really good.

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 5,221

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RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 2:47:41 PM

Great points Dragon...We've definitely seen the team understand eachother better over the course of a season, this year and last. To your point on continuity, if it as valuable as you say...The 2012-13 season could be super special as we, in theory, will have the same exact roster as the year before.

My affection for Tommy is well documented, but I think we will have an easier time replacing him than DeVaughn based on the personnel we have. Nick is a similiar spot up shooter that can fill that void, with Stevie & Offutt very talented players also available at guard, among others.

For replacing Devaughn, we need a combination of continued improvement from Reggie and J Smith stepping up and banging down low in the paint. Rico is so athletic that I think he can help fill that void too. And if none of that happens as planned, maybe Goard can step up and deliver some quality minutes.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

anorris
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Location: Bristol, CT
Post Count: 2,262

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RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 3:19:37 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

The 2012-13 season could be super special as we, in theory, will have the same exact roster as the year before.

I've been saying that for a while. Trying not to get my hopes up too far, given basketball's traditional attrition, but watching our young players develop, it is hard not to think about.

But for now, it's March -- the best time of the year, and our seniors have some more games to play.

jsjohn
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Member Since: 12/23/2004
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RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 3:45:26 PM

... and don't forget that Joe Mitchell, the JC transfer, sounds like a very good, experienced guard as well.

Bob Haldeman
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Member Since: 1/1/2005
Location: Parkersburg, WV
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RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 4:28:03 PM

Believe we spoke with Borna, Dragon and a little on air about this last night........it almost seems as if there is a broader base for success this year than last, and the steps for the future are now better lit.

The only caveat to that is that it's easier to be 'high-variance' or have a higher ceiling with a guy who could give you 30 a night for a three-game stretch regardless of other circumstance. Like having the stupid ABA ball at the end of the 3 Point Contest rack, it gives you some margin for error.

Though there is a ton of positive mojo right now with this team, the tolerances for this camshaft are a few microns thinner than last spring.

Careful. One at a time.

tiptondevilcat
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Member Since: 11/1/2010
Post Count: 65

Status: Offline

RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 5:03:43 PM

Exceptionally interesting thread Mr Dragon.

I was sitting here reading this board when I ran across this podcast from Matt Painter labelled 3/2/2011. As I listened to it I thought of this Ohio team and what I see here after watching for a year. Painter has shown a knack for finding guys and inserting them into the system. Granted Ohio is not looking for a top seed in the NCAA and is unable to pick up a top 50 recruit but the way Coach handles his players is what strikes me as most applicable to the situation.

As I have listened and watched this board over the last couple of years I think it is a good listen for anyone who really wants to know what the next level looks like and how personnel is handled. Not really expecting those fringe fans who just want to moan and complain about everything to take 5 mins and listen then ponder but those who truly want to invest themselves and learn an bit it is time well spent. Enjoy.

Jeff McKinney
Moderator

Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,155

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RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 5:15:22 PM

Also keep in mind that Ohio has at least one scholarship available for the Spring, and is expected to try to sign another big man for next year. We'll see how that pans out, but that could also add to the dynamic for next season.

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,597

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RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 5:27:51 PM

Good stuff.

I've seen crazier things happen.

bobcatsquared
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 5,418

Status: Offline

RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 6:04:33 PM

Man, I'm hoping to become the fan Tiptondevilcat wants us all to be.

No more "fringe fan" for me.

Last Edited: 3/2/2011 6:05:19 PM by bobcatsquared

tiptondevilcat
General User

Member Since: 11/1/2010
Post Count: 65

Status: Offline

RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 6:42:08 PM

bobcatsquared wrote:

Man, I'm hoping to become the fan Tiptondevilcat wants us all to be.

No more "fringe fan" for me.

I am not challenging anyone here, I just see a pretty bright future as I have been combing through 22 pages of history and the stuff I saw before the board lost everything. It is hard to stick by a team through thick and thin but it is even harder to keep learning the game of basketball as it evolves. I really thought the middle section of the podcast was enlightening when he talked about shot selection and the transition from High School to College as well as what it takes over the summer to develop and get better. Ethan told me he got up 6600 makes in 5 weeks this summer, he said the only one who got up more was Freeman with an even 10K. All those Indiana kids at Purdue are natural gym rats, including Painter who came from a farm school in our old Sectional. .

Last Edited: 3/2/2011 6:43:08 PM by tiptondevilcat

TWT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,190

Status: Offline

RE: Continuity

Posted: 3/2/2011 7:36:20 PM

The season really looked like it was going in the tank a month ago and its very nice to see the rebound. Ohio with its win last night has clinched a winning season not what the outcome is of the next 2 games and that I think is worth at least a passing grade of C (and probably better in light of the defections). I think its highly unrealistic to expect a coach to put a program on a higher level than it was within 3 years. Ohio has traditionally performed at the level of 15-20 wins, so Groce greatly overachieved with the NCAA run. The goal should be to get this program to the 25+ win a year level with 20 acceptable in an off year. This program isn't quite showing it yet but I think good examples is SDSU and the time it required to have them as a contender for a high NCAA seed. With Groce winning 7 of his last 8 games down the stretch here he is showing solid coaching ability.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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