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Topic:  back to Butler

Topic:  back to Butler
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bornacatfan
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Member Since: 8/3/2006
Post Count: 5,716

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  Message Not Read  back to Butler
   Posted: 3/30/2011 10:47:47 AM 
Seemingly threadjacked I am opting to start this one with some more Butler stuff that is worthy of discussion or reading.

When we talk about what it takes to build a program SEO is a special place. McBin hit on some of that but how do you make locals invest emotionally in the program and give it meaning to THEIR lives. That is how Ohio athletics is going to survive unless one of us wins the lottery of developes some fantastic patented process. This gal sums it up nicely. After listening to Collliers 3/29 Podcast and Coach Brad talk about te program yesterday I am happy to see this article today.


As a father I have always exposed my kids to greatness and I think it shows in their character. Cliff Barker letting Tommy hold his Gold medal from the 1948 Olympics and telling him about returning fromthe concentration camps to return to play at UK and Spending time as a ball boy with Reggie Miller and all those guys on the BSU team actually go into the make up of a character. There is no reason for Ohio athletes not to be the pride of South East Ohio and role models of r all those kids there. Can't say it enough. There are more than ample opportunities for the public and alumni to invest emotionally and financially in these kids if they are doing things the right way.

Last Edited: 3/30/2011 11:22:04 AM by bornacatfan

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,221

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  Message Not Read  RE: back to Butler
   Posted: 3/30/2011 11:34:41 AM 
Ironically, I received a call on our home phone last night shortly before 8 from one of the girls on the OU volleyball team.  We had a nice conversation and she thanked me for being a supporter of OU volleyball in particular and OU athletics in general.  It was just a call and a conversation - no request for money.  I think this is what Tom is talking about in his post.  Made a nice impression and makes me want to continue to support their efforts.

But, because of short sighted policy decisions by our AD, my contributions to volleyball will no longer count toward my seat requirements for basketball tickets.  In other words, if I want to continue to support volleyball and keep my basketball seats, I'll have to double my contribution.  I don't think this is what Tom is talking about in his post.
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,762

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  Message Not Read  RE: back to Butler
   Posted: 3/30/2011 11:56:53 AM 
borna, you make some excellent points here.  I've said in earlier posts -- a year or more ago -- that the university, in general, does not make itself relevant to the average resident of Athens County.  Yet, OSU has a lot of Wal_Mart fans here.  Somehow OU is seen as elitist by many locals, while OSU seems like it's the "people's university."  It's a matter of perception.  It wasn't always so.  In my youth, there was less of this town-gown split than there is today.  At that time, the city had two major employers -- OU and McBee.  About a third of my high school class was made up of OU brats, a third of McBee brats and the rest brats of other persuasions.  While there was some tension between the grouips there seemed to less of an "us" v. "them" mentality than exists today.  One reason for this was the attitude of President Baker, who made it a point know all the Court Street merchants on a first-name basis and to meet and greet folks from all walks of like on the city streets.  He made it an explicit point to not stay hunkered down in Cutler Hall but to get to know the community.  In saying this I'm not complaining about McDavis specifically because none of his predecessors since Baker have really done much to improve town-gown relationships.  I would, however, encourage him to do more mixing with the community.  Also, it would be a good idea if our coaches did so as well.  I do know that Frank has made some friends around town who are of the "good old boy" type that we need to recruit into our fan base.  Don't know exactly what JG has done on this front.  My basic point is that getting out in the community and talking to "the folks" needs to be done more often by more folks at the university.  This would be a positive in many ways, including helping to cultivate a fan base.  Winning is also an essential ingredient in the formula! 

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,221

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: back to Butler
   Posted: 3/30/2011 12:36:29 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
borna, you make some excellent points here.  I've said in earlier posts -- a year or more ago -- that the university, in general, does not make itself relevant to the average resident of Athens County.  Yet, OSU has a lot of Wal_Mart fans here.  Somehow OU is seen as elitist by many locals, while OSU seems like it's the "people's university."  It's a matter of perception.  It wasn't always so.  In my youth, there was less of this town-gown split than there is today.  At that time, the city had two major employers -- OU and McBee.  About a third of my high school class was made up of OU brats, a third of McBee brats and the rest brats of other persuasions.  While there was some tension between the grouips there seemed to less of an "us" v. "them" mentality than exists today.  One reason for this was the attitude of President Baker, who made it a point know all the Court Street merchants on a first-name basis and to meet and greet folks from all walks of like on the city streets.  He made it an explicit point to not stay hunkered down in Cutler Hall but to get to know the community.  In saying this I'm not complaining about McDavis specifically because none of his predecessors since Baker have really done much to improve town-gown relationships.  I would, however, encourage him to do more mixing with the community.  Also, it would be a good idea if our coaches did so as well.  I do know that Frank has made some friends around town who are of the "good old boy" type that we need to recruit into our fan base.  Don't know exactly what JG has done on this front.  My basic point is that getting out in the community and talking to "the folks" needs to be done more often by more folks at the university.  This would be a positive in many ways, including helping to cultivate a fan base.  Winning is also an essential ingredient in the formula! 


Interesting points but of course you're drawing from your experiences before consolidation.  Not only is there a town/gown divide related to OU but there is also at our local high school.  I did a study on this several years ago when the Athens City School district was considering reorganizing their elementary schools.  It was amazing to see the under-representation of students who had attended certain elementary schools on everything from sports teams to courts (prom and homecoming) to students in honors level classes.  I made the comment that had we been talking about disparities related to race, the federal government would have come in and reorganized things years ago.  Obviously, the committee folded, the board tried a secret meeting and the whole thing fell apart.

My point is that if we were to get these kids together sooner, there might be some positive effects on how they and subsequent generations perceive the so-called educational elites.


Last Edited: 3/30/2011 12:38:09 PM by Alan Swank
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Ohio69
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,061

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  Message Not Read  RE: back to Butler
   Posted: 3/30/2011 4:10:58 PM 

I read the letter Bornacatfan linked and I get it.

But, I think a sizeable portion of this region is in total disbelief of and/or actually dislikes what it takes to have a successful divison I basketball program.

Last Edited: 3/30/2011 4:11:26 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Voice of Reason
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Member Since: 7/28/2010
Post Count: 249

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: back to Butler
   Posted: 3/30/2011 5:48:08 PM 
Alan, 

I think the call from the student-athletes is a great touch as well.  That is the work of the Ohio Bobcat Club.  Believe it or not, they are not just a money grubbing, greedy organization.  The OBC exists so that Ohio can continue to provide volleyball and all sports an outstanding experience and continue to entertain the community.  I challenge you to find more than a handful of Division I athletic programs that allow you to give restricted and get seating benefits from it.  Please, research it and present your findings to everyone on this board.  I think you will find that this is the widely accepted practice in college athletics. 

The biggest problem is that you see the money you give to the OBC as something preventing you from supporting the volleyball program.  In actuality, that money supports the volleyball program and all the other sports that we love.  That money is used in the area of greatest need for Ohio athletics and advances the department as a whole rather than an individual program.  The AD is not being shortsighted, he is being smart.  He should be the one deciding where that money is spent and how because he is the one with the vision for the department and knows what needs to be done to get it there.  Everyone talks about these mid-major models and what it will take for Ohio to be there.  Well guess what, we have an AD that built one of those models at Wichita State.  There crowd for the NIT is proof of that.  Maybe you should have a little more faith that he actually knows what he is doing.  Results don't happen overnight!  Looking at how this athletic department has progressed from where it was when Schaus came in to now, I believe it has grown and improved by leaps and bounds.  So I have a hard time understanding how he is shortsighted.  Perhaps it is the other way around.  He sees how to build a foundation and a long term plan and all you see is that you have to give more for your seat or that the OBC is looking to suck money our of your pockets.
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,762

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: back to Butler
   Posted: 3/30/2011 10:11:23 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
borna, you make some excellent points here.  I've said in earlier posts -- a year or more ago -- that the university, in general, does not make itself relevant to the average resident of Athens County.  Yet, OSU has a lot of Wal_Mart fans here.  Somehow OU is seen as elitist by many locals, while OSU seems like it's the "people's university."  It's a matter of perception.  It wasn't always so.  In my youth, there was less of this town-gown split than there is today.  At that time, the city had two major employers -- OU and McBee.  About a third of my high school class was made up of OU brats, a third of McBee brats and the rest brats of other persuasions.  While there was some tension between the grouips there seemed to less of an "us" v. "them" mentality than exists today.  One reason for this was the attitude of President Baker, who made it a point know all the Court Street merchants on a first-name basis and to meet and greet folks from all walks of like on the city streets.  He made it an explicit point to not stay hunkered down in Cutler Hall but to get to know the community.  In saying this I'm not complaining about McDavis specifically because none of his predecessors since Baker have really done much to improve town-gown relationships.  I would, however, encourage him to do more mixing with the community.  Also, it would be a good idea if our coaches did so as well.  I do know that Frank has made some friends around town who are of the "good old boy" type that we need to recruit into our fan base.  Don't know exactly what JG has done on this front.  My basic point is that getting out in the community and talking to "the folks" needs to be done more often by more folks at the university.  This would be a positive in many ways, including helping to cultivate a fan base.  Winning is also an essential ingredient in the formula! 


Interesting points but of course you're drawing from your experiences before consolidation.  Not only is there a town/gown divide related to OU but there is also at our local high school.  I did a study on this several years ago when the Athens City School district was considering reorganizing their elementary schools.  It was amazing to see the under-representation of students who had attended certain elementary schools on everything from sports teams to courts (prom and homecoming) to students in honors level classes.  I made the comment that had we been talking about disparities related to race, the federal government would have come in and reorganized things years ago.  Obviously, the committee folded, the board tried a secret meeting and the whole thing fell apart.

My point is that if we were to get these kids together sooner, there might be some positive effects on how they and subsequent generations perceive the so-called educational elites. 


Alan, I'm well aware of the problems brought on by the consolidation -- forced by state education bureaucrats -- of the old Athens City School District with The Plains School District and Chauncey Exempted Village School District.  I applaud your attempts to provide an after-the-fact solution to some of those problems.  However, I submit that the first cause of the problem was the forced merger.  The Chauncey system is a good example in point.  Prior to the merger Chauncey had students each year that scored high on the state Latin test..  They had a Latin teacher at that high school who knew how to teach students coming from the type of socioeconomic background that is typical of students from that area.  And, I suspect that this was true of most of the teachers in Chauncey system.  I just picked the Latin situation because of the steller performance in that area with an objective fact basis (the state tests).  Now, when our children were at AHS, the kids from Chauncey were isolated and treated like second class citizens.  None of them, to my knowledge, excelled in any academic pursuits.  One teacher, who shall remain nameless, referred to these students -- in front of other students (including my daughter and maybe yours) -- as his "redneck students."  A number of other teachers expressed the same attitude more subtly. As you know people, particularly young people, often live up to the expectations that those in leadership positions have for them.  My wife, by the way, has worked for a number of years with student teachers who go to the elementary schools that serve the Chauncey area.  Many of them come back after their first few days suffering from "culture shock," but she reports that after a while they really enjoy working with these students.  I think the problems develop at the middle school and high school level.

Last Edited: 3/30/2011 10:14:51 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 1,193

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: back to Butler
   Posted: 3/30/2011 10:52:11 PM 
Alan, how do you know the Volleyball player didn't call to meet you for a nightcap at Tony's and then venture over to Casa De Swank for some late night Cinemax and an Avalanche (Pizza).

See, and you had to take her in the direction of the budget and your required Bobcat Club Donation.

Edit: an Avalanche

Last Edited: 3/30/2011 11:45:54 PM by Bobcat Love
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