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Topic: Cable tv in Athens

Topic: Cable tv in Athens

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/30/2011 4:53:31 PM

Got a post card today from Time Warner and it appears that we will no longer be getting Columbus network tv in Athens. From the card "Effective January 1, 2012, we will replace the following Columbus, OH broadcast stations with affiliates from the Charleston-Huntington market."

No more Fox 8, WBNS 10, WWHO or NBC, ABC, Fox or CBS HD out of Columbus. The card says it because of FCC regulations and its agreements with broadcasters. Can anyone explain?

Pataskala
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/30/2011 8:06:21 PM

I know TWC has been in retransmission consent negotiations with Channel 10 and maybe Channels 6/28, although I thought they had reached an agreement with the last two. Since it's a wholesale shift, though, it sounds like the FCC might have moved Athens into the Charleston/Huntington market for cable coverage purposes. If a city isn't in a market, the local cable company can have carry more than one network affiliate so long as the affiliate is available with an over-the-air antenna. But if they move the city into a market, the network nonduplication rules kick in and the cable company can carry only the affiliates in the market. It doesn't apply to independent stations like WGN and WTBS. It sucks sometimes but it helps local broadcasters protect themselves from cable companies that would import signals from larger markets.

Last Edited: 12/30/2011 8:07:53 PM by Pataskala

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Tim Burke
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/30/2011 9:41:10 PM

It's more like this: nobody at Athens TWC wants to pay to hire someone who switches the Columbus feeds off every time network programming comes on. I understand why that is, because it's a 24/7 job so that's like $120,000 a year in overhead. I'm actually quite amazed Athens had duplicate broadcast nets for this long.

Ohio '99 EMU '00 USF '08(?)

Bucho
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/30/2011 9:45:37 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

I switched to DirecTV years ago (I'm a Browns fan, and wanted Sunday Ticket). Anyway, I've had to suffer the WV local news for quite some time - they've always considered zip codes beginning with 457 to be in the WV market. It sucks, but you get used to it.

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/30/2011 10:36:01 PM

For what it's worth, we will still be getting 4 & 6 non-HD on TWC Athens after January 2. And, right now we get WCHS-11 and WSAZ-3 non-HD. How does this figure into the FCC regulations? Is there some exception for non-HD broadcasts? Perhaps, 4 & 6 do not broadcast over-the-air non-HD digital signals so the FCC has no jurisdiction? I used to know the law in this area, but I have not kept up with the recent changes since the advent of HD broadcasting. I know some of you folks are really up on this stuff. Please bring me up to speed. Thanks.

Last Edited: 12/30/2011 11:35:25 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Pataskala
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/30/2011 11:31:30 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

For what it's worth, we will still be getting 4 & 6 non-HD on TWC Athens after January 2. And, right now we get WCHS-11 and WSAZ-3 non-HD. How does this figure into the FCC regulations? Is there some exception for non-HD broadcasts? Perhaps, 4 & 6 do not broadcast over-the-air non-HD digital signals so the FCC has no jurisdiction? I used to know the law in this area, but I have not kept up with the recent changes since the advent of HD broadcasting? I know some of you folks are really up on this stuff. Please bring me up to speed. Thanks.

As I recall, HD signals don't travel as far as non-HD, so cable companies that are farther away from the station's transmitter might be required to carry the non-HD but not the HD. It depends on the signal strength at the cable headend. Also, under the FCC's rules if a cable company decides not to carry more than one affiliate of the same network, they're required to carry the affiliate that's closest to the headend. This might not apply to stations that carry Fox, CW and some other prime-time only networks because the rule covers stations that substantially duplicate another station's programming, meaning that they duplicate more than 50% of the time. It's confusing, and that's one reason why I never really got into cable carriage law.

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anorris
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/31/2011 2:36:23 AM

Pataskala wrote:

I know TWC has been in retransmission consent negotiations with Channel 10 and maybe Channels 6/28, although I thought they had reached an agreement with the last two.

They did do a deal with Sinclair (6/28) recently after a public battle, and their current deal with WBNS expired in October, but the extended negotiation window ends with the calendar year.

Pataskala wrote:

Since it's a wholesale shift, though, it sounds like the FCC might have moved Athens into the Charleston/Huntington market for cable coverage purposes. If a city isn't in a market, the local cable company can have carry more than one network affiliate so long as the affiliate is available with an over-the-air antenna. But if they move the city into a market, the network nonduplication rules kick in and the cable company can carry only the affiliates in the market.

Athens actually has been in the Huntington/Charleston DMA for a while now (at least a year or two), but it has swapped regularly between Columbus and Huntington/Charleston. It should be mentioned that while a cable company can't be required to carry duplicate programming, it can do so at its discretion (as TWC has for years). Also, must-carry provisions aren't generally in play here, because a broadcaster must elect to be a "must-carry" station, and as they've gained power against the cable companies in negotiating, it is far more common for them to choose to use the retransmission consent rules, which prevent the cable company from using their signal without their permission (usually obtained via a per-subscriber payment, similar to how most cable channels operate).

My guess is perhaps their new deals with Sinclair and negotiations with the Dispatch Group had enough of a per-subscriber cost that they felt they could save money by not distributing them to any households at all outside the Columbus DMA. I'm not aware of whether the Huntington/Charleston stations operate under must-carry or retransmission consent.

Tim Burke wrote:

I don't follow. They haven't cut feeds in the past, did I miss legislation that would require them to now/in the future? I always liked having two ABCs, because every once in a while it meant I'd get one extra football game on Saturday, depending on how the markets and reverse mirrors were setup that day.

Ohio69
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/31/2011 7:43:25 AM

Alan -- If folks are interested in keeping up with Ohio news -- especially statehouse news - then we need to complain to the powers that be about this. I've already started. Mayor. State reps. US Congressman.

Also, Its just dumb to include Athens with Huntington and Charleston, especially since Columbus is closer.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Bball Jones
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/31/2011 1:20:19 PM

I'm not sure why why H/C station would be preferred over Columbus. I would not want my news coming from another state!

Athens Block
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 12/31/2011 11:00:55 PM

While it may seem strange to "get your news from another state" it's been my experience that the WV channels do a MUCH better job covering SE Ohio than Columbus does. Columbus could really care less about anything south of 270... It's gotten better for sports coverage this year since Football and Basketball are winning, but as for any other news, Athens is in a black hole.

I personally would love to see Athens added to a market with Parkersburg and Marietta. It would provide a lot more localized coverage that we're never going to get from Cbus or WV.

The Optimist
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Location: CLE
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/1/2012 1:38:06 PM

Commies.

I've seen crazier things happen.

PutnamField
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Member Since: 9/20/2007
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 303

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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/1/2012 2:03:42 PM

Ohio69 wrote:

If folks are interested in keeping up with Ohio news -- especially statehouse news - then we need to complain to the powers that be about this. I've already started. Mayor. State reps. US Congressman.

Also, Its just dumb to include Athens with Huntington and Charleston, especially since Columbus is closer.

Might want to get yer map out. Athens is almost equidistant in miles from Huntington, Charleston and Columbus. Factor in traffic and scenery, and I'd prefer a one and a half hour drive to those West Virginia cities any day of the week.

Your first point is a great one, though. And, when I hear that Sinclair Broadcasting and the FCC are involved, my bullcrap detector beeps. Sinclair was instrumental in the propaganda-fed rush to war in Iraq. Don't get me started on the FCC. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if depriving Appalachian Ohio of state governmental news in order to help keep us in the dark about fracking and deep well injection was part of a plan.

Nice to see you're getting involved with this. Keep the good posts coming. Even if I'm off point about these particulars, we need to know what's happening in Columbus.

Gallia Cat
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/1/2012 2:21:06 PM

I absolutely HATE getting my local TV from West Virginia. Being a Bengals fan I to switched to Direct TV so I could get Sunday Ticket because 13 out of Huntington forgets SE Ohio is part of the DMA and shoves Pittsburgh down our throats weekly. I understand Gallia being in Huntington Charleston but for the life of me can't believe Athens is not in the Columbus market. There is no doubt that Athens feels more tied to Columbus and Ohio news compared to getting the latest on happenings at the WV state capital. As for which would do a better job covering the Bobcats, neither. They both suck at it.

Last Edited: 1/1/2012 2:22:29 PM by Gallia Cat

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/1/2012 4:18:06 PM

Athens Block wrote:

I agree entirely with this, Athens Block. I also think that because of this change, you'll see even more SEO news -- and especially Athens news -- on the WV stations, particularly WSAZ. Many of us who grew up in Athens grew up watching WSAZ for local news because it came in the clearest of all over-the-air channels, which is all we had back then. In the very early days of TV, when WSAZ was channel 2, rather than channel 3, you could get them in Athens with no more than rabbit ears on the top of your TV. When they were forced to switch to channel 3 they had to drop their wattage, but they still came in better than any other station with a roof-top antenna.

While I agree with PF on a lot of what he says, I can't go along with some of the currently popular media frenzy about fracking. Though PF didn't mention the recent hysteria about fracking causing earthquakes, that charge is particularly vacuous.

Key quote: "The Marcellus formation lies in one of the least seismic zones in the world, said Helen L. Delano, a senior geologic scientist in Pennsylvania's Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. The risk for earthquakes is minimal, even without drilling."

"Man-made forces do not compare to earthquake forces," said Ricardo Taborda, a civil engineer who works at the Quake Project at Carnegie Mellon University. "There are many other things to be more concerned about with the Marcellus shale than this."

Last Edited: 1/1/2012 4:35:15 PM by OhioCatFan

anorris
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/1/2012 4:56:12 PM

PutnamField wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

Keep calling the mayor, state reps, etc., if you wish, but they have no standing in this matter. Time Warner or broadcasters are the ones who can make filings to alter market designations.

Code of Federal Regulations, Title 47, Chapter 1, §76.59 - Modification of television markets. wrote:

(a) The Commission, following a written request from a broadcast station or a cable system, may deem that the television market of a particular commercial television broadcast station should include additional communities within its television market or exclude communities from such station's television market. In this respect, communities may be considered part of more than one television market.

(b) Such requests for modification of a television market shall be submitted in accordance with §76.7, petitions for special relief, and shall include the following evidence:

(1) A map or maps illustrating the relevant community locations and geographic features, station transmitter sites, cable system headend locations, terrain features that would affect station reception, mileage between the community and the television station transmitter site, transportation routes and any other evidence contributing to the scope of the market.

(2) Grade B contour maps delineating the station's technical service area and showing the location of the cable system headends and communities in relation to the service areas.

Note to paragraph (b)(2): Service area maps using Longley-Rice (version 1.2.2) propagation curves may also be included to support a technical service exhibit.

(3) Available data on shopping and labor patterns in the local market.

(4) Television station programming information derived from station logs or the local edition of the television guide.

(5) Cable system channel line-up cards or other exhibits establishing historic carriage, such as television guide listings.

(6) Published audience data for the relevant station showing its average all day audience (i.e., the reported audience averaged over Sunday-Saturday, 7 a.m.–1 a.m., or an equivalent time period) for both cable and noncable households or other specific audience indicia, such as station advertising and sales data or viewer contribution records.

(c) Petitions for Special Relief to modify television markets that do not include such evidence shall be dismissed without prejudice and may be refiled at a later date with the appropriate filing fee.

(d) A cable operator shall not delete from carriage the signal of a commercial television station during the pendency of any proceeding pursuant to this section.

However, even if Athens were in the Columbus market, because the local broadcasters in Columbus are invoking retransmission consent, Time Warner would not be required to carry them, which makes this more of a business issue rather than a regulation issue. The people you want to badger here are Time Warner themselves.

FWIW, the OTA signals from Huntington/Charleston propagate more strongly to Athens than Columbus', based on contour mapping, but I do think the state government argument is a strong one.

Last Edited: 1/1/2012 5:04:39 PM by anorris

OhioCatFan
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/1/2012 5:12:05 PM

If we've been in the Charleston-Huntington ADI (using the old term) for a few years, I'm wondering if one or more of the stations in that market may have filed a complaint with the FCC and forced the change. Any way to look this up online?

ts1227
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/1/2012 11:32:57 PM

Ohio69 wrote:

Also, Its just dumb to include Athens with Huntington and Charleston, especially since Columbus is closer.

Columbus also ignores everything in their viewing area that isn't in Franklin County... specifically the statehouse and Ohio State.

Charleston/Huntington may only have a 30 second blurb on some news story in Athens, but it's 30 seconds more than you're getting from Columbus (especially Channel 10).

OhioStunter
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/3/2012 1:04:16 AM

So how does this affect CatVision?

anorris
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/3/2012 2:51:50 AM

OhioStunter wrote:

So how does this affect CatVision?

CatVision is mostly a re-ordering of TWC's service, so I believe it would affect that service, as well.

Ohio69
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/3/2012 8:33:03 AM

Well, an elected official can use the bully pulpit and be a real pain in the arse. Heck, a dogged mailman has resulted in Columbia gas replacing gas lines on the east side of Athens. Of course, they have to care about this issue. And Athens politicians are a strange lot. Here's why they should care.

-The future of Athens County is tied to Columbus, not Huntington/Charleston.
-Tourism is going to come from Columbus.
-Economic development is going to creep down from Columbus (hey, I can dream, can't I?).
-Ain't nothing going to come from Huntington/Charleston. Nothing. I've lived in Athens for 22 years and still have not met one person who drives to Huntington/Charleston for their "big city" needs.
-Columbus media sure aren't going to provide any coverage of any event in Athens County if folks there can't even get their channels.
-You know anyone in Athens who gets a Huntington/Charleston newspaper or has an online subscription? Me neither.
-If you are 72 miles from the Statehouse steps, you shouldn't get your news from a different state.
-And, if you are 72 miles from the Statehouse steps you should be able to get news about what happening in that darn Statehouse, not some other state.

But, I'll need some folks like Alan Swank to join me in pushing officials to try to change this. Not sure that will happen. But, I'm sending in my emails to everyone this week.

(Oh, and I love I can come on here and learn stuff like what Anorris posted. Thanks dude.)

Last Edited: 1/3/2012 8:37:24 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/3/2012 10:41:02 AM

Talked with the folks at Time Warner this morning and for the time being, we're screwed. This site sums up the fact that we aren't in the footprint for Columbus stations and therefore should have been in the Charleston/Huntington market long ago (their words, not mine).

http://transition.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/

That said, nothing is etched in stone. They've promised to get back to me and I believe that they will. In the interim, let's start with calls to Athens city hall and work our way up the chain of command.

Alan Swank
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/3/2012 12:17:03 PM

Just got the call back from Time Warner and this is what appears to have gone down. The WV stations had until 10/1/11 to exercise their Muscary rights (sp) which some of them did which means that TW in Athens can no longer carry the corresponding stations. This deal is in effect until 12/31/14.

Some of you may have noticed that 4 and 6 disappeared too. This was a TW mistake and those channels are now back on (just checked) so at least we still get 2 Columbus channels.

Ohio69
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/3/2012 12:45:52 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

So this Muscary thing means nothing can be done?

How in the heck are we in their area? I just read today that my US Congressman is likely going to be from Upper Arlington. Yet I'm in with Charleston for TV? What the.....?

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/3/2012 2:20:10 PM

The word is "Must Carry." I think you'll find that WSAZ will do an excellent job of covering Athens County, as they used to do in the old "over the air" days. They used to even cover stories from Columbus -- State House news kinds of things.

Last Edited: 1/3/2012 2:20:35 PM by OhioCatFan

anorris
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RE: Cable tv in Athens

Posted: 1/3/2012 2:33:06 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

I'm assuming what you heard as "Muscary" would be the "must carry" provisions of the law. The choice between must-carry (station is required by law to be carried by local cable companies in their market, as defined by Nielsen) and retransmission consent (station can broker deals with cable companies to receive compensation for use of their signal, but receive no protection if the cable company decides to drop them entirely) is one done on a three year cycle, so the dates would make sense.

Subpart D covers all the details, if anyone is interested.

Alan, did they mention which of the WV stations had opted for must-carry?

Don't have a lot of time to delve into the non-duplication portion of this, but that is Subpart F.

Ohio69 wrote:

(Oh, and I love I can come on here and learn stuff like what Anorris posted. Thanks dude.)

No problem -- it is an interesting (to me) topic, and I think the ability to receive state government news is an important one, regardless of what market we're technically located in.

Last Edited: 1/3/2012 2:37:47 PM by anorris

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