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Topic:  Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?

Topic:  Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 8:24:31 PM 

Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
 
 
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I've never been a big fan of the Bracket Busters.  Seems like a lazy way to schedule a game, and they never seem to do much for any of the teams involved.  I think most of the teams could do better on their own.  Should the MAC pull out?  (Granted, if we hadn't been stiffed by ESPN again this year, I probably wouldn't be asking this.)

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 8:33:58 PM 
No, it's still an interesting process and adds some intrigue.  Both Akron and Buffalo actually have a shot at improving their stock.  But in looking at the top 15 road teams (removing the teams we've already played and the ones that are in the MAC) we ended up with the least intriguing matchup I could think of.  I'm getting more and more disappointed by the minute.
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Tyler
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 8:40:37 PM 
I'd be in favor of pulling out and replacing the games with something like a MAC-Horizon challenge.  Like others have said, playing these Bracketbuster games at far away schools results in nothing more than a random home-home series.  I'd much rather see something more regional that we could look forward to each season.  Take the previous season's top 10 MAC teams and pair them up against their Horizon counterparts for a November/December weekend event.  5 MAC teams would get home games and 5 Horizon would get the other.  You could probably get STO to pick up the top 2-3 matches too.

This year it would have been (using regular season results):
Kent vs. Milwaukee
WMU vs. Butler
Miami vs. Cleveland State
Ball State vs. Valpo
Ohio vs. Detroit
Akron vs. Wright State
BGSU vs. Green Bay
Buffalo vs. Loyola
CMU vs. Youngstown State
NIU vs. UIC

Or you could do it as a weekend in February and use the current records/RPI to determine teams.  Either way, you'd end up with more exciting matches for everyone involved.

Last Edited: 1/30/2012 8:44:11 PM by Tyler
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 8:45:42 PM 
The problem is, the MAC and Horizon already play a lot of non-conference games vs. each other.

I don't like being relegated to ESPN3, but I'm fine with UNC-Asheville as an opponent.  Why don't we try to find out some more about them before we write it off as a disappointment. 
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 9:01:48 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
The problem is, the MAC and Horizon already play a lot of non-conference games vs. each other.

I don't like being relegated to ESPN3, but I'm fine with UNC-Asheville as an opponent.  Why don't we try to find out some more about them before we write it off as a disappointment. 


The more I think about it the less I like this matchup.  UNC-Asheville's RPI right now is as high as it's going to get (unless they beat us).  Here are the RPI's of the teams they have left on their schedule:

259
324
334
139
267
277

If they win the rest of their games they have a shot at staying about where they are.  If they lose one of those games they drop like a rock.

At first blush the 16-7 record looks pretty good until you dig deeper.   They played some pretty good teams but lost to every team of consequence.  They are 2-6 against D-1 OOC opponents.  They have three wins against non-D1 teams. Their "best" win is South Carolina Upstate.

Last Edited: 1/30/2012 9:02:27 PM by OUVan
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 9:24:43 PM 
Did I mention that they are a Senior dominated team.  Their top three scorers and four of their top 6 will be leaving after this season.  51.7 PPG will be gone.  Only one of their top 9 players will be around two years from now. So the return game will be an even bigger RPI suck for us.  As someone else said I hope they can package this with another Tobacco Road game to make the trip worthwhile.

I'm normally a pretty positive guy and I can rationalize with the best of them but this sucks.  I'll get over it soon enough and game day I'll be fired up but I'm going to throw a little temper tantrum for a while now.
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 10:40:15 PM 
What about a MAC vs. Sun Belt challenge? Both conferences have about the same number of teams and budgets.

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uncafan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 10:47:11 PM 
OUVan wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
The problem is, the MAC and Horizon already play a lot of non-conference games vs. each other.

I don't like being relegated to ESPN3, but I'm fine with UNC-Asheville as an opponent.  Why don't we try to find out some more about them before we write it off as a disappointment. 


The more I think about it the less I like this matchup.  UNC-Asheville's RPI right now is as high as it's going to get (unless they beat us).  Here are the RPI's of the teams they have left on their schedule:

259
324
334
139
267
277

If they win the rest of their games they have a shot at staying about where they are.  If they lose one of those games they drop like a rock.

At first blush the 16-7 record looks pretty good until you dig deeper.   They played some pretty good teams but lost to every team of consequence.  They are 2-6 against D-1 OOC opponents.  They have three wins against non-D1 teams. Their "best" win is South Carolina Upstate.


Our best win is not against South Carolina Upstate.... Not even close.  Did you mean Coastal Carolina? Huge difference between a team that barely is out of D2 and an established Division 1 school that has multiple sports competing at an above average D1 level (Baseball -- top 25, basketball -- top 120 RPI, football -- playing Big Ten schools most years).

Granted UNCA's RPI is not expected to rise but they won a game in the 2011 NCAA tourny and pushed #1 seed Pitt pretty hard... OU didn't event make the NCAA tourny in 2011.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 11:00:26 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
Seems like a lazy way to schedule a game, and they never seem to do much for any of the teams involved.


George Mason never gets the opportunity to make the Final Four without the BracketBuster.

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perimeterpost
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/30/2012 11:13:10 PM 
uncafan wrote:
Granted UNCA's RPI is not expected to rise but they won a game in the 2011 NCAA tourny and pushed #1 seed Pitt pretty hard... OU didn't event make the NCAA tourny in 2011.


congratulations on beating Ark-Pinebluff in the 16 seed play-in game last year. we haven't been to the tourney since 2010 when we beat #3 Georgetown by 14pts. sorry if we don't seem too excited to play a branch campus, nothing personal.

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Bobcat Swag
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 1:17:38 AM 
uncafan wrote:

Our best win is not against South Carolina Upstate.... Not even close.  Did you mean Coastal Carolina? Huge difference between a team that barely is out of D2 and an established Division 1 school that has multiple sports competing at an above average D1 level (Baseball -- top 25, basketball -- top 120 RPI, football -- playing Big Ten schools most years).


Uhh, sorry if we offended you by our lack of knowledge of obscure Carolina Colleges.  Which one had the batsh#t crazy coach that went on a rant about dogs and cats again?

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 2:40:18 AM 
uncafan wrote:
OUVan wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
The problem is, the MAC and Horizon already play a lot of non-conference games vs. each other.

I don't like being relegated to ESPN3, but I'm fine with UNC-Asheville as an opponent.  Why don't we try to find out some more about them before we write it off as a disappointment. 


The more I think about it the less I like this matchup.  UNC-Asheville's RPI right now is as high as it's going to get (unless they beat us).  Here are the RPI's of the teams they have left on their schedule:

259
324
334
139
267
277

If they win the rest of their games they have a shot at staying about where they are.  If they lose one of those games they drop like a rock.

At first blush the 16-7 record looks pretty good until you dig deeper.   They played some pretty good teams but lost to every team of consequence.  They are 2-6 against D-1 OOC opponents.  They have three wins against non-D1 teams. Their "best" win is South Carolina Upstate.


Our best win is not against South Carolina Upstate.... Not even close.  Did you mean Coastal Carolina? Huge difference between a team that barely is out of D2 and an established Division 1 school that has multiple sports competing at an above average D1 level (Baseball -- top 25, basketball -- top 120 RPI, football -- playing Big Ten schools most years).

Granted UNCA's RPI is not expected to rise but they won a game in the 2011 NCAA tourny and pushed #1 seed Pitt pretty hard... OU didn't event make the NCAA tourny in 2011.


Dude...I like your passion...I really do. However, do some freaking research on OHIO and its basketball program. Were you not alive 24 months ago when OHIO beat Greg Monroe and Georgetown in the NCAA Tourney by 14 points??? It was the biggest upset of the tournament that year.

Also, OHIO has had multiple players drafted in the first round of the NBA draft (Dave Jamerson and Gary Trent). Enjoy coming to Athens in a few weeks and the wonderful atmosphere the Convo has to offer. It's going to be a heck of a game and with the experience UNCA has...I'm expecting it to go right down to the wire. Just dial it back a little and understand what OHIO is all about. If not, we'll educate you for the next 10 days. Good luck the rest of the season except in the bracket buster.

Last Edited: 1/31/2012 2:43:00 AM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 7:27:06 AM 
uncafan wrote:
Our best win is not against South Carolina Upstate.... Not even close.  Did you mean Coastal Carolina? Huge difference between a team that barely is out of D2 and an established Division 1 school that has multiple sports competing at an above average D1 level (Baseball -- top 25, basketball -- top 120 RPI, football -- playing Big Ten schools most years).

Granted UNCA's RPI is not expected to rise but they won a game in the 2011 NCAA tourny and pushed #1 seed Pitt pretty hard... OU didn't event make the NCAA tourny in 2011.


If you would note that the rest of my post is about your OOC schedule so I was referring to your best OOC win. As for your "not even close" point there is only a 25 point RPI difference between Coastal Carolina and that team that "is barely out of D2." The point of my whole post is that we were hoping for an RPI boost with this Bracket Buster game and no offense to your team you guys aren't going to give us that.  I'm sure you will give us a very tough game but the benefits just aren't there.  We were also hoping for one of the 11 spots available on the TV lineup and given that we have the 8th best home RPI amongst BB teams we seemed poised to get it.   Instead we get an ESPN3 game which sounds okay until you realize that all of our home games are streamed free anyway so there is no benefit there either.  If you guys had been given an opponent with an RPI 56 positions lower than your RPI you wouldn't be too thrilled either.
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cincybobcat99
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 8:34:05 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
The problem is, the MAC and Horizon already play a lot of non-conference games vs. each other. 


I think the MAC office should try to force more A-10 games - with us having Temple and UMass in football. I would love a A-10 versus MAC series, with two A-10 teams getting to opt out (most likely Xavier and somebody else). 
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 9:13:14 AM 
They shouldn't pull out.  Listen, I'm ticked that we're not on TV as much as anyone.  The team earned it and deserved it.  But success in the Bracketbusters is good publicity for the conference.  The Bracketbusters aren't the problem.  The problem is that our league office continues to fall behind other conferences we used to surpass.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 9:17:58 AM 
cincybobcat99 wrote:
I think the MAC office should try to force more A-10 games - with us having Temple and UMass in football. I would love a A-10 versus MAC series, with two A-10 teams getting to opt out (most likely Xavier and somebody else). 


Xavier plays Miami pretty much every year so that game could be part of it.  But while it would be a fun matchup for us I don't see the A-10 wanting to do it.  They have 9 teams currently in the Top 100 in RPI. We have 3.  The Horizon is a much more even match.  Don't get me wrong it would be awesome for the MAC but unless we kick things up a notch consistently we provide no benefit for the A-10.
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Tommy B
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 9:26:01 AM 
No way should the MAC pull out of the BBuster  This is a fun idea where teams of approximate equal ability get a game deep into conference play season.   Whats not to like about that?  
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 9:55:03 AM 

Why these conferences would spend a weekend knocking eachother out of NCAA tourney contention remains a mystery.  The BCS schools sitting in 5-6-7 place in their conference (and A-10 schools) are sitting back and giggling.  Go ahead, play each other and "bust" yourself.  Uhg.



Last Edited: 1/31/2012 9:55:23 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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bobcat695
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 9:59:35 AM 
I'd rather have UNCA on our schedule than Toledo or Northern Illinois.  I don't really care about the TV snub since I will watch the game live in the Convo like most of the folks complaining about this.  We are almost certainly a one-bid league.  Unless we were playing St. Mary's or a high level MVC team, a win against any school is going to do virtually nothing to affect the NCAA seeding this year.  Regardless of what we do, the MAC is a 12-14 seed.  Louisville and Robert Morris were our real Bracketbusters.  We lost both of those games, so there is only one way to get in the dance now.  We sound like Marshall fans right now.

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 10:26:08 AM 
Ohio69 wrote:

Why these conferences would spend a weekend knocking eachother out of NCAA tourney contention remains a mystery.  The BCS schools sitting in 5-6-7 place in their conference (and A-10 schools) are sitting back and giggling.  Go ahead, play each other and "bust" yourself.  Uhg.



And that's just because those teams are given credit for being better than they really are.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 11:50:25 AM 
bobcat695 wrote:
I'd rather have UNCA on our schedule than Toledo or Northern Illinois.  I don't really care about the TV snub since I will watch the game live in the Convo like most of the folks complaining about this.  We are almost certainly a one-bid league.  Unless we were playing St. Mary's or a high level MVC team, a win against any school is going to do virtually nothing to affect the NCAA seeding this year.  Regardless of what we do, the MAC is a 12-14 seed.  Louisville and Robert Morris were our real Bracketbusters.  We lost both of those games, so there is only one way to get in the dance now.  We sound like Marshall fans right now.


This makes a lot of sense.  Unless a team has an RPI of between 20-50, Bracket Buster isn't going to help you that much anyway. 
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 12:48:58 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:

Why these conferences would spend a weekend knocking eachother out of NCAA tourney contention remains a mystery.  The BCS schools sitting in 5-6-7 place in their conference (and A-10 schools) are sitting back and giggling.  Go ahead, play each other and "bust" yourself.  Uhg.


Please provide evidence supporting this.

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 1:39:12 PM 
Should we pull out?  no.  But an away win probably help more than a win at home - so let's play it on the road.

You would think they would have us play someone outside the Big South

Team            Finish 2011/now      Last year’s opponent (league*)            2012 Opponent (league*)

Akron             3rd W/1st E            Creighton (Missouri V 9)                       Oral Roberts (summit 18)

Ohio              4th E/2nd E             Winthrop (Big South 27)                       UNC –Ashe (Big South 27)

Buff              5th W/2nd E             Milw. (Horizon 13)                                  S. Dakota St (summit 18)

Kent             1st East/4th East     Drexel (colonial 12)                               Col. Charleston (Southern 21)

BGSU          6th E/5th E               Youngstown St. (Horizon 13)                 Morehead St. (Ohio Valley 25)

Miami           2nd E/6th E            James Mad (Colonial 12)                      TN St. (Ohio Valley 25)

EMU            4th W/1st W            Jax St. (Ohio Valley 25)                         Green Bay (Horizon 13)

BSU            2nd W/2nd W           Wofford (Southern 21)                           S. Ill (Missouri Valley 9)

WMU          1st W/3rd W            Ill. St (Missouri Valley 9)                         N. Dakota. St. (Summit 18)

Toledo        6th W/4th W            E. Ill (Ohio Valley 25)                               Sam Houston (Southern 21)

CMU          3rd W/5th W            Niagra (metro Atl 16)                               Tex AM C.C (Southland 29)

NIU            5th W/6th W            Seattle (Indy)                                            SIU-Edwardsville (Ohio Val 25)

 

* conference rank by ESPN – MAC is 17 (yes arbitrary)

 

Of the 6 MAC teams with winning records:

Akron’s draw is solid – and was last year
Buff drew well SD St – 2nd in Summit

Kent gets a good name

EMU – Bad Draw

BSU – weak team, good conference name

Ohio – Play in Big South again – at least they are in 1st

 





Last Edited: 1/31/2012 1:44:39 PM by cc-cat
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 3:01:01 PM 
JSF wrote:
Ohio69 wrote:

Why these conferences would spend a weekend knocking eachother out of NCAA tourney contention remains a mystery.  The BCS schools sitting in 5-6-7 place in their conference (and A-10 schools) are sitting back and giggling.  Go ahead, play each other and "bust" yourself.  Uhg.


Please provide evidence supporting this.


every selection sunday should be evidence enough....but it would be futile to discuss this with those firmly entrenched in the 64 team toruney is perfect camp. Expanding to 128 is one more round of games and would give weight to winning the regular season as opposed to just the tourney winner getting in.....

Last Edited: 1/31/2012 3:02:30 PM by bornacatfan

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC pull out of Bracket Busters?
   Posted: 1/31/2012 3:21:30 PM 
bornacatfan wrote:

every selection sunday should be evidence enough....but it would be futile to discuss this with those firmly entrenched in the 64 team toruney is perfect camp. Expanding to 128 is one more round of games and would give weight to winning the regular season as opposed to just the tourney winner getting in.....


So you think that if the BB wasn't played the mids would get more teams in?   I think the event helps some teams and hurts some teams.  I don't think it effects the number of Big 10 or ACC teams that get in at all. 
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