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Topic: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Topic: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

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anorris
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In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 2:32:53 AM

Did this once last year, decided to check in midway through crossover play.

If the MAC East were its own conference, it would have a Sagarin of 77.60, good for 10th best in the country, behind the Missouri Valley and ahead of C-USA.

If the MAC West were its own conference, it would have a Sagarin of 67.12, ranking it 27th in the nation, sandwiched between the Patriot and the NEC. Barf.

In the RPI, if the conference were split by division, the East would have an RPI of .5338, which would rank ninth, between the same MVC and C-USA.

The West would come in with a .4441 mark, which would rank 29th, between the Southland and MEAC.

(RPI from http://www.udpride.com/images/rpi.htm)

Last Edited: 2/7/2012 2:37:57 AM by anorris

Andrew Ruck
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 8:50:00 AM

That's incredible. It is one thing for a division to be significantly better than the other side, but to have all 6 teams on one side be better than all 6 teams on the other side is astounding. Also, for this to spike up for a year or 2 is one thing, but this has become a very sustained trend...the divide has been this clear for 5+ years now.

I still think Toledo, Ball State, and Western Michigan have a lot to offer in hoops, solid fan support potential and can be valuable assets to the MAC.

Andrew Ruck
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JSF
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 9:14:44 AM

anorris wrote:

If the MAC West were its own conference, it would have a Sagarin of 67.12, ranking it 27th in the nation, sandwiched between the Patriot and the NEC.

And O'Shea thought the West was bad.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

KyleWvr13
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 9:35:44 AM

This is, to say the least, not good for the conference.

I think the best thing to do to make the conference competitive top to bottom is to get rid of divisions in basketball. But I don't know If getting rid of divisions would make the conference overall better or worse.

I think that is what's holding back the decision of getting rid of the East/West model. Since the gap of competition on most occasions is so great between the two divisions, would it cause the West teams to become more competitive to the East teams overall in say 5 years, or would it cause the East teams to become less competitive because they won't get tested by better teams as often, causing the two divisions to meet somewhere in the middle?

PalmerFest
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 9:56:47 AM

Why not keep the divisions, but don't have them play each other until the tournament? It would be like old school MLB. May have to add one or two more teams to each division to get enough regular season games.

OU_Country
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 10:05:21 AM

KyleWvr13 wrote:

With the new format in the MAC tournament, there's really no purpose at all to having divisions. None. Zero. Zilch. What I think could happen is that it would create a scenario where the conference would have a few more teams that look good to the selection committees for potential at-large consideration because there would be a few less match-ups head to head of the power east teams.

Casper71
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 11:36:21 AM

Same is true for MAC football. At a minimum the bottom dwellers make the MAC look mediocreor worse. Since it is obvious nobdy is moving from this conference to another, it only makes sense for the "strong" members to reduce the number of teams in this league so that it gains some respect. The MAC has, over the years, tended to add teams to the bottom NOT the top. Thus, the league has been in a slow decline.

I would say look at the most recent additions and determine whether they have really kept their side of the bargain and grown into the league. Use the two "major sports" and use objective criteria, standings, attendance, resources committed, etc. and to determine who stays and who goes and lets make the league respectable!

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 12:03:15 PM

Casper71 wrote:

I don't think anyone can argue that Temple has not been a positive to the league for football. Hopefully, UMass will be also. I think the Minutement will have to be given a few years, though.

Before that, the last addition (aside from UCF for football-only for a few years) was Buffalo in 1999. Certainly the Bulls as a whole have been terrible at football but pretty good at men's basketball. Northern Illinois was added in 1997 and has been the opposite. Akron in 1992 has been good at basketball and terrible at football. But then again, which schools in the MAC have been great at both in the last decade or two?

giacomo
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 12:26:26 PM

You can look at any conference and say the bottom dwellers are hurting the better teams in these types of scenarios. However, the fact is that we have 13 teams and they won't all be good all the time.

JSF
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 12:32:16 PM

Funny. A poster on WMU's board was complaining about how East fans are constantly lamenting this very thing. I think we have a legitimate beef.

And Toledo had a pretty good basketball/football run for a while. So did Miami.

anorris
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 12:39:03 PM

giacomo wrote:

This is true, however, when the bottom-dwellers are consistently and continually the same teams for the best part of a decade, it seems to indicate an institutional problem, rather than the simple regular cycles in this type of environment.

JSF
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 12:53:18 PM

anorris wrote:

giacomo wrote:

I would argue many, if not most, conference have perennial bottom-dwellers. However, in the MAC's case, it seems to be changing a bit. Toledo and EMU are making strides. I think NIU has a good coach in place. CMU is trending downward. Miami is going to finish in last place for the first time, I think.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 1:07:41 PM

Giacomo has a point, it probably gets more attention because of the perfect divide of East and West. If we just had 12 teams in 1 combined standing, we probably would barely talk about it.

Part of the problem with any kind of reform is schools like NIU - Tops in Football, worst in hoops. It is hard to make any kind of decisions as far as kicking members out or bringing new ones in when it affects so much more than just Basketball. Eastern Michigan is about the only school I can point to and confidently say they just plain suck, have no hope and are killing our conference. The other 11 schools show me something in the way of success in 1 of the 2 major sports and/or solid fan support potential. Maybe I'm crazy.

Andrew Ruck
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UpSan Bobcat
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 1:21:34 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

You're right, Eastern Michigan is the team that comes to mind that has been consistently bad at football and men's basketball. However, the Eagles are in first place in the MAC West right now (for what that's worth) and they stood a shot of winning the division in football until losing to the Huskies in a single-score game in the second-to-last week of the season. It seems Eastern Michigan finally is making progress.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 1:23:40 PM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

It seems Eastern Michigan finally is making progress.

Yes, but the fan support and the dollars won't be there to help build the momentum.

Andrew Ruck
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Casper71
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RE: In Which I Lament the Anchor-like Effects of the MAC West

Posted: 2/7/2012 1:40:32 PM

I would argue this is more than wins and losses and standings. It's Sagrin/RPI rankings, attendance, budget, etc. If an institution is not committed to D1 in a number of objective criteria then they should be dropped. The hardest part is probably selecting and prioritizing the criteria and getting agreement on it. Then give schools a time period to meet the criteria or get the boot!

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