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Topic: RPIs are crap

Topic: RPIs are crap

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Pataskala
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RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 10:40:37 AM

According to Rivals.com, Akron has a 55 RPI and Ohio has a 78. Akron is 16-7, Ohio is 19-4. Akron is 1-2 vs. top 50 RPIs, Ohio is 1-1. Akron is 3-4 vs. 51-100 RPIs, Ohio is 3-1. So according to Rivals.com, the secret to gaining 23 RPI positions is to lose one more game to a top 50 RPI and three more games to 51-100. This is the second-crappiest system for selecting post-season teams ever devised by man (the BCS is the crappiest).

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Ted Thompson
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 11:24:05 AM

It's pretty much in line with the Sagarin which has Ohio at 74 and Akron at 60. I find the Sagarins to be much more reliable because they take into account score differential and is a system similar to what's used to set the lines.

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Shawn Sellers
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 11:30:18 AM

Pataskala wrote:

In fairness, that doesn't tell the whole story. Yes Akron has had a tougher schedule. But also, of the losses against +100 rpi teams, Akron lost one game @ Valpo (RPI 105) and Ohio lost at home to Robert Morris (RPI 103) and @ Bowling Green (RPI 173)

Akron has also won 4 MAC road games @ this point in the season, which will help them in a MAC Championship run down the stretch. 5 of our last 7 MAC games will be on the road. If we somehow end up winning the MAC Championship, we will be ranked higher than Akron. I think Akron deserves to be ranked higher right now.

Last Edited: 2/5/2012 11:31:05 AM by Shawn Sellers

genessee
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 1:11:26 PM

RPI kind of stinks given our great record. Bottom line is that that teams looking for at large bids & excellent RPIs can't lose to BG (anywhere) or Robert Morris at home. No one to blame but ourselves.

perimeterpost
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 2:18:39 PM

genessee wrote:

not true. Actually you can lose to BG and Robert Morris and still be in great position for an at large bid. Below are two teams that both lost to BGSU-

Team 1 has 5 losses, the RPI for those teams are 54,65,69,125, and 171.
Team 2 has 4 losses, the RPI for those teams are 29,56,104 and 171.

Team 1= Temple, RPI 16
Team 2= Ohio, RPI 78

Ohio has fewer losses overall and their second worst loss to RoMo has an RPI 21pts higher than Temple's second worst loss to Richmond.

The difference can be found at the ends of the schedule-

Temple has played 11 teams in the top 100 and their record is 8-3 .
Ohio has only played 6 teams in the top 100 and their record is 4-2. Fewer losses, but also fewer wins.

Temple has only played 4 teams with an RPI +200. (Toledo and Central Michigan OOC)
Ohio has played 11 teams with an RPI +200. (7 are OOC)

the largest detriment to Ohio's RPI is not losses, its OOC scheduling and conference association. All the more reason to be disappointed with the Bracket Buster selection. Since we won't be changing conferences next year I hope we can take advantage of the entire team returning (knock on wood) by replacing the 200+ RPI OOC games with teams in the 100s and maybe one or two more top 20 teams. Still plenty of winnable games to be found.

Last Edited: 2/5/2012 2:23:11 PM by perimeterpost

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JSF
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 2:51:38 PM

Pataskala wrote:

You're missing a key piece of information: Akron's strength of schedule is 88, Ohio's 215.

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Pataskala
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 3:47:13 PM

JSF wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

You're missing a key piece of information: Akron's strength of schedule is 88, Ohio's 215.

Of course, strength of schedule is based on, what else, RPI. It just feeds off itself. It's still crap.

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JSF
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 4:14:06 PM

Pataskala wrote:

JSF wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

You're missing a key piece of information: Akron's strength of schedule is 88, Ohio's 215.

Of course, strength of schedule is based on, what else, RPI. It just feeds off itself. It's still crap.

Yes and no. The RPI is better than people give it credit for anyway.

Senior Fan
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 5:29:09 PM

It all seems razor thin. Where would the Ohio team be if it would have beaton Akron?

Casper71
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 5:38:56 PM

Sagrins giving credit for margin of victory hurts us. We had a couple of "close" home losses and haven't beaten some crappy teams very bad. Head to head in March is all that matters anyway so why look at the RPI if you don't like what it tells ya?

ohio9704
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/5/2012 5:41:42 PM

Ohio has 9 wins vs. teams with 220 or worse RPI. That is about the worst 1/3 of college basketball. So, half of Ohio's 18 D1 wins are against some of the worst competition. Blame the MAC West all you want, but too many stiffs on non-conference schedule is why a 18 win (against D1) is where they are in the RPI. The RPI rewards you for playing good teams and winning.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: RPIs are crap--what if we were 23-0

Posted: 2/5/2012 7:19:21 PM

Would you accept being ranked #10?..No claim for higher?

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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/6/2012 9:34:50 AM

ohio9704 wrote:

It's not just the MAC West. Several teams we played were expected to be better than they are. Portland's RPI rank last year was 102 (224 this year). Wright State was 124 (219). Miami was 111 (257). In all 9 teams on our schedule have an RPI 20 places or more worse than last year. That kind of thing can happen but you aren't doing yourself any favors by scheduling four teams that have no hope of cracking the top 200. even if they have successful seasons. I don't have a problem scheduling two of the following, UT-Martin, Kennesaw St, Morgan State and NC A&T but having all four really puts you in a bind when you know that the West is going to destroy your RPI already.

Big Willy
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/6/2012 3:14:04 PM

It's pretty simple. We need to schedule tougher non-conference games and win some of them.

Ted Thompson
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/6/2012 3:39:04 PM

Big Willy wrote:

It's pretty simple. We need to schedule tougher non-conference games and win some of them.

Or win games like BG and Robert Morris. With just losses at Louisville and at Akron, RPI would probably still be in at-large range.

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RSBobcat
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/6/2012 8:00:22 PM

Ted Thompson wrote:

Big Willy wrote:

It's pretty simple. We need to schedule tougher non-conference games and win some of them.

Or win games like BG and Robert Morris. With just losses at Louisville and at Akron, RPI would probably still be in at-large range.

Excactly. Until the MAC West gets back to competitive and the MAC raises it's relative strength vs the other MM conferences, we are a one bid conference. UNLESS 2 teams have incredibly outstanding seasons w/one winning regular season then losing to the other in the conference tournament championship game. Our losses to R Morris and BGSU seriously hurt the at large bid opportunity - though I do not think it still impossible.

RS Bobcat

perimeterpost
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/6/2012 9:38:15 PM

RSBobcat wrote:

Ted Thompson wrote:

Big Willy wrote:

It's pretty simple. We need to schedule tougher non-conference games and win some of them.

Or win games like BG and Robert Morris. With just losses at Louisville and at Akron, RPI would probably still be in at-large range.

Temple lost to BGSU and a team with a worse RPI than Robert Morris and their RPI is 16.

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ohio9704
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/6/2012 9:49:48 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

RSBobcat wrote:

Ted Thompson wrote:

Big Willy wrote:

It's pretty simple. We need to schedule tougher non-conference games and win some of them.

Or win games like BG and Robert Morris. With just losses at Louisville and at Akron, RPI would probably still be in at-large range.

Temple lost to BGSU and a team with a worse RPI than Robert Morris and their RPI is 16.

Temple SOS 58 vs. Ohio SOS 228

Tim Burke
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/6/2012 9:53:07 PM

The RPI is statistically invalid. This has been proven time and again. No need to debate it.

It's what the NCAA uses, but arguing over whether one team or another should be where they are is silly. It's an invalid instrument.

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JSF
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RE: RPIs are crap

Posted: 2/7/2012 12:17:32 AM

RPI gets ragged on a lot, but in the end, it usually doesn't disagree much with more respected systems.

Basketball State wrote:

The Ratings Percentage Index gets a bad rap from diehard fans, but it isn't useless, not at all. A lot of NCAA scientists worked long and hard to put that formula together. We use it, along with the Strength of Schedule rating, as the basis for the first phase of TSoCBB

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