Last Edited: 1/29/2012 9:50:01 PM by Alan Swank

Last Edited: 1/29/2012 10:04:35 PM by JSF

Last Edited: 1/29/2012 10:10:51 PM by Alan Swank

Last Edited: 1/29/2012 10:37:36 PM by JSF

If you're getting flack for being too loud in your section, then I'm sure Ross and I are regularly there as well in the areas we sit in.  This thought leads me back to the idea for the "Old Zone" that's been discussed.

I think over a long haul, the  +/ - argument is a strong one for conversation about an individual's affect on the game.  To some degree, I think it points out what you already know if you watch a team on a regular basis, though I will say I'm a little surprised that Ric's number isn't higher on, versus off the floor.  Maybe it would be different in conference only.  Like your original comments, I am surprised about Reggie's number too.  I guess I don't give him enough credit because I feel like he sometimes doesn't play as big as his stature.

The Ball State starting five of Bond, Tyler Koch, Jarrod Jones, Tyrae Robinson and Randy Davis played only 8:49 together Saturday. The starting five outscored the Bobcats 13-11 over that stretch. Foul trouble for Koch factored into their playing so few minutes together. Koch logged only 16 minutes before he fouled out with 2:41 left in the game.

Only Robinson out of the five starters finished with a positive plus-minus. The Cardinals outscored the Bobcats by three points in his 25 minutes of action. Jones notched the next best at minus-three, Bond followed at minus-four, and Davis and Koch each finished at minus-five.

The Ball State reserves totaled single-digit points for the second consecutive game. The reserves scored only four points against Akron and followed with seven against Ohio.

Freshman forward Aaron Adeoye scored four of those seven points. Adeoye totaled four points, four rebounds and two blocks in a season-high 23 minutes. He played single-digit minutes in each of the previous five conference games. The Cardinals outscored the Bobcats 32-26 in his 23 minutes as his plus-six topped all Ball State players.

Tom St Meyer is new to the college game but is doing all he can to analyze the game to keep up with a pretty sophisticated fanbase following basketball here. He really has become a student of the game in order to do his job.

I do not think it has inherent value as there are so many variables. On a game by game basis it may have greater weight but if you really think about a season it is a general trend that has numbers which can be skewed. IF we have starters who are playing and build a substantial lead and put in the next team to get them some run in big blowouts there is a problem. THe next team or individual that gets in is still facing a foe that has all starters in trying desperately to get back in.....not saying that refs around the country let teams back in to some degree or the mix of players on the floor may not be on the same page ....but there is a difference and affects the way those numbers appear. I wish we could reconstruct that old board as it would be fun to ressurrect the reasons you used against using this number now that youhave decided to take another look...

In any case I am with you in looking at it but I do take it with a grain of salt knowing there are much better metrics regarding individuals than straight +/- provided by guys like Ken Pom.

Last Edited: 1/30/2012 3:15:10 PM by JSF

Last Edited: 1/30/2012 5:01:09 PM by OUVan

Love these numbers, but don't know enough to draw legit conclusions.  Jeff, can anything be read into on court/off court differentiation (Cooper and Offutt clearly have distinct differences).  Would have anticipated Baltic having more of a spread.  Is that a result of strong sub coming in?  Kellogg at same level either on or off.  What would you conclude…if anything.   Straight numbers would say Hall and Johnson should not be on the court – which is not the case, so I appreciate the “margin” is misleading.  Can you expand just a bit - Realize it is conjecture to a degree.  Thanks.