BobcatAttack.com - For Fans of Ohio University Sports

Welcome Guest!
Create an Account

site search

about us

advertise with us

help

BobcatAttack.com Message Board

Ohio Basketball

Topic: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Topic: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Author

Message

JSF
General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

Status: Offline

Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/6/2012 11:03:29 PM

http://t.co/Pes25TDY

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

perimeterpost
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 3,165

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/6/2012 11:46:12 PM

not to be Joe Editor but there's a couple of typos- In the first sentence the cumulative record against the West is listed at 12-0. In the Akron recap you refer to the Zips as the "Cats.

content wise spot on, I agree with nearly everything except Buffalo at 2 and Ohio at 3. Ohio won the head to head plus Buffalo has a lost to Miami and nearly lost to a bad Toledo. Edge goes to the Cat, imo.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

JSF
General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 12:15:17 AM

perimeterpost wrote:

not to be Joe Editor but there's a couple of typos- In the first sentence the cumulative record against the West is listed at 12-0. In the Akron recap you refer to the Zips as the "Cats.

No, thanks for the corrections. Those were mistakes made by the editor, so I would not have seen them. Sent in the corrections.

OUbobcat9092
General User

Member Since: 12/28/2004
Location: Fairfax, VA
Post Count: 1,193

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 10:55:58 AM

Don't know how you can rank Buffalo ahead of Ohio at this point.
Better overall record by 5 wins, tied in MAC Standings, beat them head to head...

Bring Back Men's Track & Field

UpSan Bobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,812

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 11:09:03 AM

Ohio has won its home games and beat only Northern Illinois on the road in MAC play.

Buffalo has won at Miami, at BG, at NIU and at Toledo. The Bulls also have given Akron their only MAC loss.

I certainly think there is a case for Buffalo being ahead of Ohio.

OUVan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 11:23:54 AM

OUbobcat9092 wrote:

Don't know how you can rank Buffalo ahead of Ohio at this point.
Better overall record by 5 wins, tied in MAC Standings, beat them head to head...

I've raised that point before and while I agree with you I understand why he has them above us. Power Rankings are not a season long study. They are a snapshot of how good the teams are now. A compelling argument can be made that they are playing better than us right now. The reason I think we should get the nod is how badly we beat them. Keep in mind that we actually didn't play very well offensively in that game and still dominated.

OUVan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 11:42:33 AM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

Are you saying that if we win tonight and at Miami we would move ahead of them?

UpSan Bobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,812

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 11:55:45 AM

OUVan wrote:

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

Are you saying that if we win tonight and at Miami we would move ahead of them?

Ohio already lost at BG, whereas Buffalo did not. I think based on MAC results it's fair to think that the Bulls would beat the Bobcats on a neutral court. I do think Ohio is more talented, but the results within MAC play don't necessarily show that. Basically, Buffalo and Ohio are both 7-2 in the MAC and Buffalo has done it against a tougher schedule. I don't have a problem with Buffalo being ranked higher.

OUVan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 12:06:59 PM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

That means you put more value on the BG games than the Ohio-Buffalo game. The difference in the BG games was miniscule. With a minute and a half to go in the game we were tied and Buffalo was losing by a point. I just have a hard time giving more weight to the last minute and a half of BG-Buffalo and BG-Ohio than I do the Ohio-Buffalo game.

JSF
General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 12:29:21 PM

I'm certainly not weighing it on one common opponent. But Buffalo has the same record as Ohio against a tougher schedule and more road wins. Yes, Ohio beat Buffalo, but Buffalo beat the two teams that beat Ohio.

And I should note Buffalo moved up last week on the heels of a string of unimpressive Ohio victories. I don't think anything that happened last week built a compelling case for switching them.

Last Edited: 2/7/2012 12:30:05 PM by JSF

OUVan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 2:34:23 PM

JSF wrote:

Buffalo doesn't have the same record and doesn't have the tougher schedule. They may have had the tougher conference schedule to date (marginally) but Ohio's full season performance is better.

OUr road record is 6-3 compared to their 5-5 road record And our road wins (RPI 52, 61, 134, 208, 216, 336) are more impressive than their road wins (71, 175, 206, 283, 336). Our conference road losses (Ohio 54, 175 vs Buffalo 80,223 ) are even more impressive. I just find it odd that the reason we dropped was our WINS were not impressive enough.

JSF
General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 3:47:56 PM

OUVan wrote:

JSF wrote:

At this point, out-of-conference success is a marginal factor to me. I was referring to conference record. Buffalo has the fifth-toughest MAC schedule so far, we have the 11th.

Mike Bundt WHIZ
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2010
Location: West Seneca, NY
Post Count: 274

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 3:48:18 PM

I'm a UB and a Ohio fan and I believe that it is a mistake to have UB ahead of Ohio. I cover the Bulls when I'm home on break and there is no way that they are more talented than Ohio.

Any argument of putting UB ahead of Ohio right now is flawed if you look at the numbers and break it down.

Even performance wise, watch some UB games. They do not win pretty. They win their games in just as ugly of a fashion as Ohio. Not to mention there loss at Miami (ohio) is worse than our loss at Bowling Green and they lost to us head to head.

And, they are only 14-6 compared to us being 19-4. I'm saying this as a fan of both teams, you can't have UB ahead of Ohio right now. I get that they're hot and Ohio is winning ugly and that power rankings are an inexact science BUT, UB has not shown enough yet to be called the 2nd best team in the MAC.

Last Edited: 2/7/2012 3:49:15 PM by Mike Bundt WHIZ

JSF
General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 3:59:46 PM

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

Even performance wise, watch some UB games. They do not win pretty. They win their games in just as ugly of a fashion as Ohio.

I know we like to claim we're winning ugly, but our margin of victory in conference right now is +7. That's not ugly. For those curious, Buffalo is +6.9, Bowling Green has come on lately and is +7.4, and Akron is +8.2. Kent is lagging at +4.4 and Miami is -2.2.

Want to talk more numbers? Really, we're only better than UB in defensive efficiency and turnover rate. They have us just about everywhere else.

Add in the fact they have one more home game than we do in the second East swing and you'd be hard-pressed to argue we're in a better position than they.

Last Edited: 2/7/2012 4:01:43 PM by JSF

Mike Bundt WHIZ
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2010
Location: West Seneca, NY
Post Count: 274

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 9:10:47 PM

JSF wrote:

[QUOTE=buffalobobcatfan]
Want to talk more numbers? Really, we're only better than UB in defensive efficiency and turnover rate. They have us just about everywhere else.

I don't know what to tell you man other than I watch a lot of UB basketball through covering them and I don't think they deserve to be ranked where you put them. I have a pretty good idea about their team and I see all of there games. They put up good stats, I know that. But they don't get enough consistency from their guards. Oldham is improving but Filzen has not been as good during MAC play. They are beasically run by McCrea and Watt and if you control them, they're nothing. Ohio, while guard oriented, also has competent bigs. When it comes down to us matching up with them, we're a hard team for UB to beat.

You have the right to your opinion, I have my opinion. I'm just gonna say, the numbers are in Ohio's favor and the eye test goes in Ohio's favor. The only thing that goes UB's way is in game statistics, but even that can be factored out when you consider that Ohio plays some of the best defense in the MAC.

They're both good teams and are close teams. I just don't think they deserve to be ahead of Ohio right now. And I can tell you my friends that cover UB agree with me as well. U just can't throw out a head to head matchup when doing PR like this, especially when it was a mostly one-sided game. (and idc if it was a home game for Ohio).

Last Edited: 2/7/2012 9:12:09 PM by Mike Bundt WHIZ

JSF
General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 11:27:44 PM

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

Oldham is improving but Filzen has not been as good during MAC play.

The fact the continue to win while getting virtually nothing from Filzen is significant.

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

They are beasically run by McCrea and Watt and if you control them, they're nothing.

I like that you state this as thought this is easy.

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

I'm just gonna say, the numbers are in Ohio's favor and the eye test goes in Ohio's favor.

Which numbers?

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

]The only thing that goes UB's way is in game statistics, but even that can be factored out when you consider that Ohio plays some of the best defense in the MAC.

This makes absolutely no sense. Are there out-of-game statistics? UB's stats don't matter because Ohio plays better defense? Does the fact Buffalo rebounds much better than Ohio not mean anything?

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

U just can't throw out a head to head matchup when doing PR like this, especially when it was a mostly one-sided game.

I never threw it out.

Last Edited: 2/7/2012 11:27:58 PM by JSF

Mike Bundt WHIZ
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2010
Location: West Seneca, NY
Post Count: 274

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/7/2012 11:50:06 PM

JSF wrote:

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

Oldham is improving but Filzen has not been as good during MAC play.

The fact the continue to win while getting virtually nothing from Filzen is significant.

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

They are beasically run by McCrea and Watt and if you control them, they're nothing.

I like that you state this as thought this is easy.

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

I'm just gonna say, the numbers are in Ohio's favor and the eye test goes in Ohio's favor.

Which numbers?

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

]The only thing that goes UB's way is in game statistics, but even that can be factored out when you consider that Ohio plays some of the best defense in the MAC.

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

U just can't throw out a head to head matchup when doing PR like this, especially when it was a mostly one-sided game.

I never threw it out.

Dude, I'm not even going to argue this anymore. I can tell you that it is amazing that they are winning with the way Filzen is prodcing. But you know what, he hasn't been showing up so what makes you think he'll turn it around. Secondly, you want to know what numbers in OU's favor? How about W/L totals, rpi, good wins, defense points allowed per game, overall points differential (crazy to include ooc), steals. You're looking at mainly offensive number in which UB is better at. And I know I didn't word my third point well but I meant, OU's defense neutralizes whatever good UB offense can do. As we saw when UB took on OU, there much heralded offense did nothing against our defense (I don't care about opponents O. Our D can shut down the majority of teams). And of course its not easy to shut down McCrea and Watt, but if you watched the amount of UB basketball that I did, you would know that it is possible and that McCrea is vastly overrated. McCrea is very good but doesn't dominate much. I would even go as far to say that Watt is better. The fact is, if either of them have an off night, they are toast. I know you said that's hard to stop but it happens a lot when they play good teams. I've seen them too many times play very poorly against average to decent talent (aka Princeton, St. Bonaventure). And my last point was that you didn't put enough emphasis on their head to head matchup.

And last i'll say is this, I know mid-major polls and things like this get criticized, but there is multiple reasons why we are 16th and they aren't even ranked (9 total votes). Its not hard to see why. They may end up better than us but right now they aren't. And please stop with the H/A, conference strength of schedule stuff. You play the game on the schedule and you WIN or LOSE. Simple as that. We are 7-2, they are 7-2. OUr rpi 80 (19-4). UB rpi 88 (14-6).

The only way I can see you putting UB ahead of OU is if you actually think UB is a better team than OU. Which I would be fine if you said that and would stop arguing with you. The problem is you're trying to justify it with other reasoning which doesn't favor UB.

And I'm sorry if this comes across as rude or has bad grammar. I just typed this up fast because I had to respond. Believe me, I'm still a UB die-hard (i was pissed when UB lost to OU in 2004), and I think you're wrong.

Also, one last point, if you do think UB is truly the better team, throw out the rosters and show me how UB is better because I'm just not buying it.

Last Edited: 2/7/2012 11:52:45 PM by Mike Bundt WHIZ

Andrew Ruck
General User

Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 5,227

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/8/2012 9:39:22 AM

JSF wrote:

Add in the fact they have one more home game than we do in the second East swing and you'd be hard-pressed to argue we're in a better position than they.

It is as simple as this. We have the same record currently, they have 3 road games left, we have 5. You can analyze all you want about which team has the better talent and potential, but I think JSF's goal is to essentially rank the teams most likely to win the MAC, and Buffalo currently has the upper hand.

I have a feeling 1 of these 2 teams will have a stumble against the West this week and then we won't have to argue about it any more.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Mike Bundt WHIZ
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2010
Location: West Seneca, NY
Post Count: 274

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/8/2012 10:33:12 AM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

JSF wrote:

Add in the fact they have one more home game than we do in the second East swing and you'd be hard-pressed to argue we're in a better position than they.

I'm fine with that if that's what he meant. I know I went a little overboard with my assessments. Interesting point though, UB still has to go on the road to take on Akron and Kent. That's going to be tough for them, plus, they historically fall back down to earth during the second portion of MAC play. This UB team might be different but idk yet.

I'm hoping that neither team stumbles down the stretch and honestly, I don't think either will that bad. I think both OU and UB will finish strong but I think OU will finish ahead just based on the fact that I think we'll take care of business against UB at alumni arena.

(typed on smartphone)

OUVan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/8/2012 11:05:03 AM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

JSF wrote:

Add in the fact they have one more home game than we do in the second East swing and you'd be hard-pressed to argue we're in a better position than they.

In my mind, it's as simple as this. We are tied and we beat them...handily. Strength of victory shouldn't play that big of a factor. A win is a win is a win in MAC play. If Buffalo moves ahead in the standings then I see them moving ahead of us or if we are tied and they beat us up there. But failing that I just don't see how games against common opponents has a bigger effect than the actual head-to-head meeting. As for margin of victory, Buffalo's advantage is entirely against the West. Against the East we have a +3.8 MOV per game. They have +1.2. Against the Big 4 (Akron, Ohio, Buffalo, Kent) the difference is even more stark. Ohio +8.3, Buffalo +1.6.

Mike Bundt WHIZ
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2010
Location: West Seneca, NY
Post Count: 274

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/8/2012 10:07:10 PM

Nevermind..........

Put UB wherever you want now after that OU disaster tonight.

JSF
General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

Status: Offline

RE: Some Unprecedented Power Rankings

Posted: 2/8/2012 11:29:54 PM

That saved me a lot of typing.

Showing Replies:	1 - 22 of 22 Posts
Jump to Page:	1

View Other 'Ohio Basketball' Topics

There are 349 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com

344 Guests
5 Registered Users:
	Deciduous Forest Cat, SBH, Cleveburg Bri, STVCastle, Scott Woods

There are no other users looking at this page.