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Topic:  College hoops PER

Topic:  College hoops PER
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UpSan Bobcat
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Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
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  Message Not Read  College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/20/2012 4:28:00 PM 
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/hollinger/statistics/_/group/14

If you're an ESPN Insider, you can see John Hollinger's PER (player efficiency rating) index for college players.

Jevon McCrea rates as the top player in the MAC by a fair margin over Kent State's Chris Evans. It might seem odd for a bench player to rate second, but if you look at his per-minute stats, they are really impressive. Akron's Demetrius Treadwell ranks fifth and is another guy that maybe should get more minutes than he does. He rebounds at a super high per-minute rate. I also think it's interesting that Akron has three guys in the top 11 and two are bench players. Nick Harney is 11th. No. 3 and 4 are Buffalo's Mitchell Watt and Ball State's Jarrod Jones.

D.J. Cooper is Ohio's top-rated player at No. 13 with a 19.86 rating. The Bobcats almost all rank in the top half (there's 100 qualified players in the MAC): Keely, 18th, 18.20; Offutt, 20th, 17.79; Taylor, 32nd, 15.62; Baltic, 35th, 15.01; Kellogg, 46th, 13.85; Smith, 50th, 13.59; Johnson, 52nd, 13.53; Goard, 58th, 12.88; and Hall, 91st, 7.20.

Generally, the PER is a very good player rating formula that weighs all kinds of things a player does, but it's not perfect. I think the numbers fit pretty well what I see from the Bobcats. Hall has started seeing fewer minutes and Goard more and this shows why. This shows that Ohio is a deep team, which I think has been obvious. It also shows the Bobcats don't really have one excellent player far better than the others (with the way D.J. has struggled a bit this year).
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Bob Haldeman
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Location: Parkersburg, WV
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/20/2012 6:09:51 PM 
All Treadwell's rate stats indicate he is going to be a beast. I almost think that both Akron & Kent would be better of without their respective "top" guys.

Greene does not defend enough and slows their pace, while Marshall just can't be counted on to stay on the floor. Both give their respective clubs a higher ceiling, but are just so limited/limiting in some phases.
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ou79
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/21/2012 6:27:19 AM 
I watched the Akron/ORU game last Saturday on the Duece.  Marshall was "schooled" by ORU.  His final stats were 4 points and 1 rebound and these were against much smaller forwards/center.  In the end, he did not block a shot and ORU dramatically out-rebounded Akron on both ends of the floor.
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OUVan
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Location: Bethesda, MD
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/21/2012 11:26:15 AM 
ou79 wrote:
I watched the Akron/ORU game last Saturday on the Duece.  Marshall was "schooled" by ORU.  His final stats were 4 points and 1 rebound and these were against much smaller forwards/center.  In the end, he did not block a shot and ORU dramatically out-rebounded Akron on both ends of the floor.


He had three blocks.  I missed the first few minutes and he picked up two fouls.  I did see his 3rd midway through the first half and it was a horrible call. Clearly all ball and the body was no where near making contact.  But being in foul trouble early in games really hampers a big man's ability to be aggressive the whole game.  That being said that man has some of the worst body language when things don't go his way.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/21/2012 11:56:45 AM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:

Generally, the PER is a very good player rating formula that weighs all kinds of things a player does, but it's not perfect.


It skews way too far towards the bigs IMO and defense isn't even considered.  Why wouldn't they consider steals in the equation?
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TheGreenFever
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/21/2012 12:27:22 PM 
I, too, was watching when he got that block and they called a foul on him.  It was definitely all ball and his body was nowhere near the other defender.  He was ticked as in I would be the same.  I know as a shot blocker, you work hard to get that block and some dumb arse ref blows that whistle.  Nothing upsets you more. 
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UpSan Bobcat
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Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/21/2012 12:49:52 PM 
OUVan wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:

Generally, the PER is a very good player rating formula that weighs all kinds of things a player does, but it's not perfect.


It skews way too far towards the bigs IMO and defense isn't even considered.  Why wouldn't they consider steals in the equation?


The formula does use blocks and steals, but you're right, that defense is a small part of the equation because it is hard to measure statiscially. There are a lot of players who get a lot of steals who aren't really very good defenders. Allen Iverson alwasy was among the NBA leaders in steals but wasn't really a good defender. An opposite NBA example is Bruce Bowen, who always rated very poorly in the formula because he didn't get a lot of blocks or steals but was considered a great defender. I think an example on Ohio would be Ricardo Johnson. his defense probably is undervalued. But again, how can you measure statistically what he does?

As for big guys, I think there's a bit of truth to that. Certainly the highest ranked MAC players mostly were forwards. If you look at it nationally, it's not as true. The players who rate highest are all-around players naturally who do a little bit of everything (and a lot of some things).
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/21/2012 1:52:22 PM 
TheGreenFever wrote:
I, too, was watching when he got that block and they called a foul on him.  It was definitely all ball and his body was nowhere near the other defender.  He was ticked as in I would be the same.  I know as a shot blocker, you work hard to get that block and some dumb arse ref blows that whistle.  Nothing upsets you more. 


I'm not basing that on that one play.  Every game I see him in he pouts and sulks after he gets called for a foul.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/21/2012 1:54:33 PM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:

The formula does use blocks and steals,


It does?  I read the summary at the bottom and didn't see them listed.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/21/2012 5:05:00 PM 
OUVan wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:

The formula does use blocks and steals,


It does?  I read the summary at the bottom and didn't see them listed.


The summary at the bottom just notes each of the categories shown, but there are more things that go into the PER. Here is a slightly more accurate description, but doesn't include the actual formula: http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2850240

Wikipedia shows the actual forumla, if you're interested, and it's extremely long and includes almost everything imaginable. I would have copied and pasted it, but it's actually an image and not text.
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Monroe Slavin
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Location: Oxnard, CA
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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/21/2012 10:53:26 PM 
TheGreenFever wrote:
I, too, was watching when he got that block and they called a foul on him.  It was definitely all ball and his body was nowhere near the other defender.  He was ticked as in I would be the same.  I know as a shot blocker, you work hard to get that block and some dumb arse ref blows that whistle.  Nothing upsets you more. 



Seriously?  That is exactly the emotionally off-balance I want the other side to bring.

You have to be able to instantly put bad calls out of your mind.  Question:  How many bad foul calls have been reversed ever?  About none.  Wht's the point of getting upset?  Smart player keeps the bad emotion out of it and lets his or her solid training take over--going right to the things that matter, whether the ref blows a stinky whistle or a good one.

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WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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RSBobcat
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 4,437

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  Message Not Read  RE: College hoops PER
   Posted: 2/22/2012 12:55:21 AM 
OUVan wrote:
TheGreenFever wrote:
I, too, was watching when he got that block and they called a foul on him. It was definitely all ball and his body was nowhere near the other defender. He was ticked as in I would be the same. I know as a shot blocker, you work hard to get that block and some dumb arse ref blows that whistle. Nothing upsets you more.


I'm not basing that on that one play. Every game I see him in he pouts and sulks after he gets called for a foul.


Absolutely. We need to go right at him - get some body/ass against him and get him outta the game when they are here Sunday. Then, hitting some of the FT's would help too...........

RS Bobcat

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