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Topic: Too Bad....

Topic: Too Bad....

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Chicken George
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Too Bad....

Posted: 11/13/2012 12:02:44 AM

that OHIO has a team that can compete against nearly any team in the country right now and we failed to land one of these early season tournaments, or 24 hour ESPN game, or something other than Portland, UNC-W and Wofford to start the season. These opportunities don't come around very often for us and we dropped the ball.

Oh well...have to settle for watching WVU vs. Gonzaga. Liked Bob Huggins' quote saying, "we could probably win 22+ games, but we may only win 18 because of the way we schedule." For all you may not like about Huggins, once thing you got to admire is his wishing to go out and play some people.

Chicken George
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/13/2012 12:27:48 AM

And with JS being a Morgantown native and realizing WVU was going to enter this season "trying to figure it all out" early in the season, I hope he called Oliver Luck and told him, "we'll play you anywhere you want this season." They had Kent State and Akron in Morgantown last year, we should've asked for a shot this year. We'd beat this bunch.

Eagle66
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/13/2012 8:41:03 AM

Chicken George wrote:

Think Huggins is rethinking / regretting playing this game after he got waxed by 34 on national TV?

OUVan
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/13/2012 10:18:48 AM

Chicken George wrote:

For all you may not like about Huggins, once thing you got to admire is his wishing to go out and play some people.

Do you mean his one of two road games OOC before conference season starts? Sorry but unless they are willing to reciprocate I say no thanks.

Chicken George
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/13/2012 2:59:24 PM

OUVan--actually I'm referring to 5 of the first 11 on the road (or at least not in Morgantown) for some entertaining matchup/experiences including:

@Gonzaga on ESPN 24 hour Tip Off Classic
@Old Spice Classic:

2012 Old Spice Classic
This eight-team field includes Clemson, Davidson, Gonzaga, Marist, Oklahoma, UTEP, Vanderbilt and West Virginia. For tickets and travel packages, visit www.oldspiceclassic.com.

Virginia Tech at Home
@Duquense
@vs. Michigan at the new Brooklyn Nets Arena
@vs. Marshall in Charleston, WV

Not as many home games as OHIO, but certainly a little more creative than our first handful of games.

Last Edited: 11/13/2012 11:52:56 PM by Chicken George

Chicken George
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 12:13:35 AM

	Jason Arkley @JasonAmessenger	9h
	@The_Singman Ohio will need a ton of wins, no bad losses, and at least one win national pundits will take notice of. Rankings also help

Jason Arkley @JasonAmessenger	9h
IMO, to get in as an at-large a MAC team will need: 28-ish wins, 15-1 conference mark, spot in tourney final.

Jason Arkley @JasonAmessenger	9h
@Ryan_Molnar @The_Singman NCAA committee has shown before it's not impressed with 25 wins/excellent MAC record

Jason Arkley @JasonAmessenger	9h
@east_coastbias Since 2007, MAC reg-season champ has had 23, 24,25, 25 and 22 wins. None got an at-large.

Reading these threads from Arkley and watching ESPN showcase/preview all the upcoming early season tournament games just brought up the feelings I had when our schedule was first announced. You have EVERY single significant player back from a Sweet 16 team; you can hit the ground running to start the season; very rarely will OHIO have this kind of team returning; Arkley reiterated what we all know---dominating the MAC regular season won't necessarily get the job done; these same guys ended the season showing they could compete against the best of them and the best you can do is schedule Mercyhurst, Portland, UNC-Wilmington, Wofford, Hampton, Richmond, St Bonnie, Maryland Eastern Shore, etc... And the responses I get is:

1. Nobody wanted to play us? My response: Really? Look at all these tournaments and they let all those other teams in, but were too afraid of OHIO to let them in? Really?
2. We have some really good teams on our schedule that have made the NCAA in the past. My response: We're looking for signature wins and I'm sorry but Richmond, Robert Morris, Oakland and UMASS probably aren't good enough. Maybe UMASS would be listed as a quality win, but nobody else would catch anyone's attention.
3. We have signature win opportunities vs Memphis & Oklahoma: My response: I agree, but you had nothing to lose by adding a couple more to give the guys more than a 2 game opportunity. For example, if we could've got into say the Old Spice Classic there would've been a chance to potentially hook up vs. Gonzaga, WVU, Clemson, Oklahoma, Vandy on a neutral court thus giving the team a couple more chances on a neutral court to get a couple signature wins. Okl and Memphis were two excellent last minute additions but we needed a couple more to give these guys the opportunities I think they deserved. I don't know even one of our players personally, but I'd bet you a chicken sandwich they all wished the OOC Schedule had a little more beef. Just a hunch.

Hate to bring this up again, but I really think we dropped the ball with this schedule and are asking our guys to win 28-29 of their 32 games to have any At-Large opportunities.

Last Edited: 11/14/2012 12:16:29 AM by Chicken George

Mike Coleman
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 1:50:10 AM

I remember when we won the Preseason NIT on national TV and that translated into the NCAA at-large berth.

Oh wait, it didn't.

JSF
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 2:59:45 AM

Richmond could be a top 40 team.

Look, scheduling isn't a tenth as easy as people think it is. First of all, people have to want to play you. I was told by someone on the coaching staff they called all around the place but got a "no" from almost everyone. And even if they want to play you, you have to have dates that work. It's not easy to put together. It wouldn't matter if, say, Michigan State was willing to play us if we didn't have a date that would work for both parties. Nobody's going to re-arrange their calendar just for us. And how is it going to work? 1-for-1? No major team is coming to Athens. And I find it unlikely many teams are willing to give us a couple hundred thousand dollars to beat them in their own gym. It's a buyer's market out there, and we're sellers.

I understand we want more shots at the bigger teams, but a lot of people are only looking at this from one standpoint when there's a few.

Last Edited: 11/14/2012 3:00:38 AM by JSF

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Chicken George
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 8:35:02 AM

Mr. Mike, be sure you follow the point in its entirety.. Typically to get an NCAA bid if you haven't won your conference championship is to dominate conference play and have some quality wins. It's an "and" proposition. Some big wins versus teams the committee and talking heads know "AND" a great record in the MAC play. I think what history has shown us is that racking up a bunch of Wins in conference play/OOC vs. little-to-no names won't get the job done without a championship in Cleveland. Memphis and Oklahoma give us two chances to land this portion of the puzzle and I'm just saying a couple more would've been nice.

JSF--not in the profession, so I'm sure it's tough. Maybe it's not having enough connections/relationships with the right people when you need to find a game or two more, but teams are finding these tournaments and I'm just disappointed that this was the year we could reasonably handle one of these deals and couldn't land one.

Let's just hope it's a mute point by winning one or both of the big games; dominating MAC action; or better yet winning in Cleveland. I would just hate to be on the bubble and have to listen to the committee explain to us that we don't have enough Top 25-40 wins, etc...

Bobcat Mac
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 8:57:59 AM

My Junior year, OHIO had the opportunity to play in a tournament in Hawaii with Gary Trent and upset UCONN to win the thing! Administration must of forgot how to get those type of deals done, especially when we see KRON playing in the PUERTO RICO tip-off!!

Casper71
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 9:34:48 AM

As a follower of OHIO basketball for years, I would say that during the Snyder and Hunter eras we were more often than not in tournaments in December and not playing all these home games against nobodys. IMO, playing a ton of home games is nice but beating name opponents at neutral sites is a better approach for a mid major. The WVU and UC types can play all those home games and do decent in their conferences and get to the NCAA. A MAC team does not have that luxury. So, I say go to tournaments and let the chips fall where they may.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 9:47:06 AM

Isn't there a scheduling elephant in the room that no one's noticing?

It's the winning/TV elephant.

If we keep performing like we did last year...tough goal...maybe not always the 16...but at least powerful regular season records...then ranking/notice, then TV, then more attractive as an opponent,...and scheduling opps.

Right? Isn't that how it always works? Hello Gonzaga and Butler ??

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OUVan
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 10:57:43 AM

Bobcat Mac wrote:

They've changed the way those tournaments count so it's not as prevalent as it used to be. Also we played Louisville in a tournament last year so they have't exactly forgotten.

bobcat695
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 11:00:03 AM

Monroe and JSF are correct. It's not like Schaus went out and got a relatively weak schedule on purpose. We (especially me, Chicken George and other WV residents) need to get over the WVU game option. They will not play us. We ask every year, they say no every year.

Those holiday tournaments are exciting, but planned out in advance. They are also called invitationals for a reason. We went to Vegas two seasons ago, so it's not like we're never playing in one of these.

I actually think the scheduling is a bigger problem in football than basketball. At least in basketball everyone has a chance as long as they keep winning in March.

I fully expect the team to be undefeated as they head to Memphis. That trip will determine if we are wasting our breath talking about anyone from our conference as a possible at-large team.

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Pataskala
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 11:08:12 AM

What I don't understand is why we didn't get invited to the preseason NIT, but Alabama-Huntsville -- A D2 TEAM!!! -- did. And they made such a great showing at Kansas St last night -- they only lost 87-26. (Yes, they beat N. Texas the night before, but that team was only 18-14 last season and didn't make it past their conference tourney.) What a farce that tourney's become.

Last Edited: 11/14/2012 11:13:01 AM by Pataskala

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OUVan
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 11:23:54 AM

Chicken George wrote:

2012 Old Spice Classic
This eight-team field includes Clemson, Davidson, Gonzaga, Marist, Oklahoma, UTEP, Vanderbilt and West Virginia. For tickets and travel packages, visit www.oldspiceclassic.com.

Virginia Tech at Home
@Duquense
@vs. Michigan at the new Brooklyn Nets Arena
@vs. Marshall in Charleston, WV

Not as many home games as OHIO, but certainly a little more creative than our first handful of games.

I'm still not seeing why this is so impressive? They play two true road games compared to our 6. One of those true road games is less than an hour from their campus against a so-so team. Richmond may not have the name recognition of most of the teams you list above but they are better than most. Our true road game at Memphis is as tough as any game they play. Two of the teams listed above we already play (@Oklahoma, Marshall).

Chicken George
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 11:30:43 AM

My flight is booked and I will be in Memphis. Psyched about that game!

Also, one point that must be understood, JS strategy has and may continue to work, at least as I perceive it. I argue that we don't get games and others argue that we can't get them even though we want them. In all actuality, I think a lot of it is JS perceived scheduling strategy, that being, schedule wins with maybe 1 or 2 bigger/winnable games mixed in. While everyone else is beating themselves up with tougher OOC and Conference games---just go about your business and win tons of games. Takes longer to get noticed in this fashion, but if you keep it up you eventually do get noticed. Would've worked in football had we kept up our end of the deal and it could work in hoops. Win all these OOC games we should, pull out 1 of the 2 big games vs. Memphis/Okl and were in the Top 25 that way. Only downfall is that you have little wiggle room as when you do eventually lose, you drop fast as you don't have another big game to boost you back up. But you can get there in this fashio and I think after seeing schedule after schedule under this administration, that really is the philosophy--lots of home games, lots of winnable games, and sprinkle in 1 or 2 big one's to not only keep everyone happy, but give yourself an ESPN moment.

Bobcat Mac
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 12:10:00 PM

BOBCAT 695 - WVU did come to Athens in 95' and left with a loss in front of a full convocation center during the holiday break, they must still be angry!!

giacomo
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 1:03:43 PM

I still think we have to go on the road to elevate our schedule. Playing two more games like Memphis and Oklahoma on the road wouldn't hurt. As somebody else said, wouldn't it be great to see what we could do with the team we have coming back? Of course, schedules are made years in advance, but not so much in basketball as football. But if we commit to scheduling and playing teams above our level, some years, like this one, would be fun. Some years we would get smoked. But that's the breaks. I would still rather go that route because ultimately you get a better program.

bobcat695
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 1:13:29 PM

Bobcat Mac wrote:

BOBCAT 695 - WVU did come to Athens in 95' and left with a loss in front of a full convocation center during the holiday break, they must still be angry!!

I was there. I went to all 5 of the most recent games in the series, home and away. I love reminding WVU fans about it on a regular basis.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

OUVan
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 1:40:23 PM

giacomo wrote:

You seem like you are completely hung up on the names on the front of the jersey as opposed to the quality of team on the court. We do play two more games like Memphis and Oklahoma. Richmond, UMass and Marshall would probably take down Oklahoma on a neutral court. If you want to keep giving the big boys a huge advantage keep allowing them to schedule your team only at home. I'm with you in that I want to play the best teams possible but not under any circumstances. If they won't come to your place then play them in a neutral setting. If they won't do that then don't play them. If West Virginia says they will only play you at Morgantown or Charleston then agree to play them at Charleston if they agree to play in Cleveland the year after. Miami tried your scheduling philosophy and it doesn't work. I might reluctantly agree to do some 2 for 1s. In the end though the only way Big 6 teams will come to your arena is if they know you are going to be a national player at the end of the year so if they lose it won't be seen as a terrible loss (see Gonzaga & Butler). If we can get to the point where we are a team that wins 25 games year in, year out then you'll see more teams come to Athens. Our schedule this year is plenty tough that if we do well we'll be in great position RPI-wise at the end of the year.

bornacatfan
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 1:58:33 PM

Van has the drill down in spades.

We are a couple years behind Butler who still has problems getting folks to come to Hinkle. State played up there in the Oden era and we have seen some other teams but they are relagated to nuetral sites. I oft find the term nuetral site to be somewhat farcical as getting 200 seats in the SPrint center for Bobcat fans to play Kansas in KC is documented history and is ridiculous. Neutral would imply that there may be a division between the two school that is somewhat equitable when it comes to obtaining tix and filling the stands. KU let 200 go in an 18K stadium.

I have long contended that the 68 team format needs to address this inequity if it is to stay legitimate as the power schools will either be on their own or people will tire of the monopoly and move on in their viewing habits. Sounds crazy but I do think the magic of the tourney dissapears when the same schools dominate and the chance of a small school being present diminishes. America still loves that little guy and the NCAA will see that love affair if theonly schools making the tourney or advancing are big 6 schools.. . If the power conferences want to keep this tourney stable in numbers they need to mandate bigger school going on the road and playing out of their friendly confines a % of their games on the road and in TRUE neutral sites. If they do not want to do this then expand to 128 so that the regular season champs make it in as well as the toruney champs in those conferences that do not get the chance to break out of that scheduling conundrum created by being a program on the rise.

In any case, I predict that OHIO will have an opportunity in the near future to be part of a conference realignment should the revenue producing sports be able to maintain the level that will sustain a national identity. Vern Alden was right and the myopia that held back the forward progress left the U 4 decades later still scrambling for an indentity and that fanbase looking past the hills toward greener pastures. I think that JS should fix his sights on excellence and delivering a great product. They will come knocking just as they did for Butler.

Last Edited: 11/14/2012 2:04:16 PM by bornacatfan

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OUVan
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/14/2012 5:39:28 PM

Get to watch another of our opponents tonight. St. Bonaventure plays at Cornell at 7pm on NBC Sports. I'll get to watch at the least the first half before football.

bobcat72
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/16/2012 6:33:36 PM

St. Bonaventure looked tough. I think we have a "sneaky good" schedule. Not a lot of big names, but most of these teams have ad some tournament/postseason success. We'll see where the RPI comes out...

giacomo
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RE: Too Bad....

Posted: 11/16/2012 7:13:37 PM

OUVan, I don't make the rules. I'm willing to play better teams on the road. It doesn't have to be murderers row. But the fact is, put any name you want on the front and it's not as impressive as playing a Big 6 team. I'm fine either way, but I make my comments in the context of rubutting those who want to get at-large bids and be talked about in the top 25. You can't do it playing the teams we play.

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