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Topic: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Topic: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

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Monroe Slavin
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WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 12/29/2012 10:03:21 PM

No nothing. No fight. No sound play.

What does Russ say a few seconds after Ohio scores? "And that's a quick bucket back the other way for [state name of opposition here]."

Team and staff need to think, re-assess, change.

WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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OhioCatFan
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 12/29/2012 11:58:30 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Good question. Unfortunately I don't have the answer. The best I can come up with is that there's a lack of chemistry between JC and his charges. I don't think there's any open attitude problems or defiance. It just seems that the team is not responding to him and he to them. It's one of the strangest things I've ever seen. I'm still hopeful that they'll get it all figured out before too long. There's too much talent on this team to continue to play like this. Also, JC is too good a coach to let this crap continue too long. Tonight's game was very winnable, yet we folded down the stretch. It was kind of like the Winthrop game. The opposition didn't win so much as we lost. We've got to improve in so many aspects of the game -- passing, shooting, driving, play in the paint, not taking ridiculous threes, etc.

Last Edited: 12/31/2012 1:10:56 PM by OhioCatFan

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Casper71
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 12/30/2012 6:37:31 PM

ding...ding, OCF appears to be right on!

doubledribble
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 12/31/2012 10:43:43 AM

OC, I can't agree with you on any of your key points. First and foremost...this is not a tremendously talented team. We have a very good point guard who is one of the better players in the league, and if we win the league, or come close to it, he will have a shot at MVP.....but other than that, we are not a dominating team by any stretch of the imagination. We are weak inside, both on offense and on defense. We have almost zero inside power game that can get you to the foul line and get the other team in foul trouble. We are not a strong rebounding team. We are often playing with as many as four perimeter players at a time! We just do not have much "beef" or muscle inside, and therefore we are going to have problems on the boards. If you are a perimeter team, with perimeter players who rely on the jump shot, then you are going to have problems when you do not shoot the ball well.....which happens in this game ! I watch quite a bit of practice, and I disagree with your opinion that there is some sort of chemistry problem between J.C. and this team. In fact, I would argue that J.C. spends more time in 1 on 1 conversations and other communications with this team. He and Coop have a great relationship, and Coop's over-all game has improved under Christians watch. Does Coop still launch some questionable 3's and try to force the ball into places it shouldnt go ?? Hell yes, but he is working on those weaknesses, and is not making as many bad plays as he was last year at this time. My point is that he has improved under Christians watch. i can site some other strong examples of how this team is not having "chemistry" problems with J.C. if you would like to discuss further drop me a personal note.

Ohio69
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 12/31/2012 11:09:25 AM

Defense needs to get much better.

And, Offut, Kellog and Baltic need to be more consistent on offense. All three are extremely streaky so far this year.

I think it is that simple.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Monroe Slavin
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 12/31/2012 5:08:36 PM

Oke hitting 70% in the 2nd half on us....opponents scoring within seconds of us putting points on the board--these things are problematic. (Yes, I do have my M.O.)

Doc Bobcat
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 12/31/2012 6:42:58 PM

doubledribble wrote:

Thanks for the heads up DD.

The "fan problem" this year with the wailing and gnashing of teeth reminds me of the football team after an 8-0 start. This team was in the Sweet 16 and returns the entire team and even adds a few decent players. It's a different season boys and girls and anything could happen.

I'm not quite ready yet to hang JC in Effigy....a little town outside of Albany.

doubledribble
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 11:00:47 AM

My point exactly Doc ! Funny that the same guys who are already trashing J.C. seem to be the same guys who gave up on our football team and staff, were anti Coach Carbone and Ohio baseball, and were questioning the coaching ability, style of play of J.G. before our tourney run last year !! "Consider the source" in some of these idiotic threads !

bornacatfan
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 12:55:59 PM

doubledribble wrote:

"Consider the source" in some of these idiotic threads !

WOW! We really do have and great set of admins... THat is EXACTLY the line that got me a 21 day ban form the Illini boards

As for the subject matter. DD, I appreciate your input from the trenches and have also seen JC spending time one on one and in teaching moments.

I can try to summarize what I am hearing on the street.

I do not think the knee jerk reaction has escalated to the point it does at other places where you see domain names like firetubby.com, firemattpainter.com and firemikedavis.com being bought up but I am OK with fans who have come into this season with measurably high expectations questioning what product is being put on the floor. They spent good money and supported the program by buying up scads of season tickets with their discretionary entertainment dollars expecting a great product and anticipating being part of something really special. Several people have said in passing that they are not impressed thus far.

The variables are finite in this equation and while JG prompted guys like SBH to come unglued in both the forum and the in game chats all year long it was Groce who stayed with the mantra "we want to be playing our best ball in March" and then delivering. I think there is a general disconnect and disillusionment with the program as there is no place in the press or media that we are seeing any allusion to the fact that there is indeed a direction with the season and the program, in fact, several folks have expressed dismay with the fact that while JG is in Champaign apologizing for the mistakes and shortcoming his 13-1 Illini are having we are listening to post games with all the blame being placed squarely on the shoulders of the same kids who made it pretty far last year. A little acceptance from the top as to the performance is what folks got used to and maybe have come to expect. We also have come to expect our kids not getting thrown under the bus. Quotes like...."we just got out toughed tonite" or "we just did not execute at the end" are far easier to accept and reconcile that it is acknowledged and will be handled as opposed to the present verbaige and placement of blame. Even when guys were struggling through the EMU /TOledo weekend and on other occassions when guy were in the doghouse for drugs, discipline or any other reason the fanbase was left to wonder as there was never anything negative coming from the top.

I don't know if I represented the folks I am talking to very well but it is a general summary from my corner of the world. I appreciate any input here as this place is way tamer than most of the boards (peegs.com, Catspause, Gold and Black, Shockernet etc ) that I frequent and tends to be more friendly and astute than most.

This is a conversation that should be open to all and is certainly warranted IMHO as I think labelling anyone who may be dissapointed or dissatisfied thus far as idiotic is just ignoring your buying public.

Last Edited: 1/1/2013 1:01:55 PM by bornacatfan

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doubledribble
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 4:05:12 PM

bornacat....I am not so much calling anyone an idiot as I am labeling these threads that have already made a decision on a three to five year program in the first 12 games or so. It is "idiotic" to do so. Does that make people who are on that bandwagon "idiots" ? As Sonny Vacarro would say, "If the shoe fits, steal it !"
College athletics is not the NBA, or the NFL, or major league baseball. A college basketball season is a work in progress as coaches are working everyday to develop and improve their kids, while their opponents are trying to do the very same thing. Sit back, and enjoy watching the process!

Jeff McKinney
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 4:15:12 PM

I'm with doubledribble on this stuff.

Agreat225
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 4:16:02 PM

Last year's year end success was the culmination of good coaching, buy in from the players, and the perfect storm set of circumstances that allowed a 3rd place finisher in the MAC East to eek out a MAC Tournament Championship, squeak by a Michigan team that had its problems, draw a average second round opponent, and then play the game of their lives in the Sweet 16.
You NEVER arrive in this world, it is always a journey. Maybe the players thought they had arrived, but are now learning the lessons of that trap.
Coach is very very good.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 4:21:37 PM

Vince Lombardi - What the hell's going on out here!? - YouTube

Last Edited: 1/1/2013 4:27:23 PM by Jeff McKinney

Donuts
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 4:23:19 PM

doubledribble wrote:

Says the person who already made a decision on the baseball program and new coach before he even held his first practice.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 5:20:18 PM

Wait a minute. Great run at the end of last year, almost every single player returns and what appears to be two solid adds. New coach with a strong MAC record (probably glad to come here because his wife is an OHIO).

Then, as I believe OCF said elsewhere and as was mentioned in chat vs. Okie, contrast the game last year against what was thought to be a quite good NIU team. At their place we destoryed them late. This year at Okie not so much.

This year, no road wins. Destruction at Memphis. And, as in my thread starter here, we seem to give up hoops often within seconds of scoring hoope (espec when we score what could be key comeback-starting hoops).

So, one may well plausibly argue that there's nothing unusual here. But can't the 'what the' question very plausibly be asked?

By no means am I calling for firing. But to ask strongly what is going on here is a fair query.

Last Edited: 1/1/2013 5:22:44 PM by Monroe Slavin

Agreat225
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 7:09:25 PM

I agree, a fair question. They have a long time to get better as they reflect and move on. We are good, but not good enough for the national stage, not yet.

doubledribble
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 7:31:23 PM

Donuts, get your facts straight. I have made absolutely no conclusions about the new baseball coach, and I wish him well, and more importantly, I wish the program well. I have been close to the Ohio baseball program since before you were born, and have always pulled for the Bobcat baseball team so watch yourself. My comments about the baseball program had only to do with my opinion on who should have been named the next coach after Joe Carbone ,who served Ohio well at the helm of the program. I have no problem with who has the job now. I was pulling for someone else to get the job. Nothing wrong with that. I didnt vote for Obama either.

Donuts
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 7:40:13 PM

doubledribble wrote:

Not that it matters all that much, but this certainly makes it sound like you've already made a pretty strong decision based simply on the degree the new coach has and nothing else.

doubledribble wrote:

I will continue to follow and support the program, but the circumstances of the hiring process and the decision made by Schaus to go outside the program will definitely affect how much $upport I provide.

doubledribble
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 7:49:04 PM

What mention of any coach's degree in any discussion I have been involved in ?? I have no idea what you are referencing when you mention a coach's degree. I stand by all my comments concerning Ohio baseball. I wish the new coach well and I wish the program well.

Donuts
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 8:06:12 PM

doubledribble wrote:

Alright, the degree was not directly mentioned. It was someone else who directly stated they hated the hire because he wasn't an Ohio guy. My reference to a degree was the fact that the new baseball coach doesn't have one that says Ohio on it. Let me put it another way.

Andrew See did not get the baseball job, so you state in September your $upport would change.

That sounds pretty similar to those same "idiotic threads" others created who gave up on the football team and staff because a couple things didn't go the way they thought they would. In fact, it sounds worse.

As you said yourself, before we start cutting support for a program, let's sit back and enjoy watching the progress. That would be hard to do if everyone changed their $upport like you stated you would do.

bornacatfan
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/1/2013 10:26:00 PM

doubledribble wrote:

I am not quite sure I get all that you are saying.

I related up above that the general tenor is not that folks are calling for his head nor have they made a decision. They are not happy with the outcome thus far from what I gather. they are also in the dark as to the direction things are going as the media presence is not allying their fears but feeding them. My point was to present what some folks who are not comfortable coming on here are putting out there.

I do not understand the bandwagon comment.....and how Sonny Vacarro or his quote ties into the conversation

I get the rest ....in spades and that is what I was trying to get across with the "we want to be playing our best in March" sentiment

Though you may think it is "idiotic" to judge this early I suspect there are probably folks on the other side who may think it is "idiotic" in their view to not see that this hire is not working. Just saying for every thought you think is idiotic in this world there is someone out there equally sure your view is just as idiotic. Both ends of the spectrum are represented and the middle is somewhere where most of us reside.

I am not trying to be anything but the messenger here. I think the hire will take time and the recruits I have met seem pretty solid. I look forward to how the season plays out. Having been around through the last coaching change I can relate to many of the feelings that go on in the locker room and a player's head. Big difference in squads and personnel in those situations.

IT is a good discussion and way more friendly than many other boards would be

Jeff McKinney
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/2/2013 11:04:02 AM

I am on the side of those supporting Coach Christian and his staff.

That does not mean that to be loyal fans we have to give a complete blank check to the new staff. There is accountability for ALL of us, no matter what job we may have.

Borna...in response to those criticizing Coach Christian for his sub .500 record at TCU...I was wondering if you would see at least some parallels to Crean's situation at Indiana. He had three not very good records at Indiana before things gelled. While Coach Christian and many others were disappointed with the lack of winning during his tenure at TCU, that does not mean we can conclude that he's not a good coach.  You can be a good coach but struggle with the wins/losses for awhile at a program like TCU.

Getting lost in the mix is Coach Christian's won-loss record at Kent State. While he did not win an NCAA tournament game, I don't see how anyone can say that his record there was not impressive.

As for the objection that he recruits people of low character...that does not appear to be true of the new players who've already been brought in to Ohio, or the new recruits coming in next year.

If past NCAA tournament success was to be a prerequisite for our hire at Ohio, then it really would have been tough to fill that. If we had not hired Coach Christian, it's likely that we would have hired an up and coming high major assistant who would not have brought any NCAA tournament wins--or regular season wins--to the table.

JSF
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/2/2013 11:41:45 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

As for the objection that he recruits people of low character...that does not appear to be true of the new players who've already been brought in to Ohio, or the new recruits coming in next year.

Actually, in my research, I discovered Maurice Ndour is an internationally-feared art thief.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/2/2013 12:06:40 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Could not agree more! JC certainly has the resume; he was successful at Kent State and the TCU team certainly seemed on the upswing when he left. Let's let this season play out.

bornacatfan
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RE: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE

Posted: 1/2/2013 4:38:26 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Well Said.

I think you touched on things I had not even really heard out in the bushes....and gave me some responses for folks when those come up.....well done.

I do not see any parallel to Crean. Let's not re write history here. Crean came into a program that was in shambles. Davis ran it into the ground losing the recruiting base with kids like Zeller and Haragody going to ND, Oden ANd Conley to tO$U, Dom James to Marquette. Then KS came in and had thugs, dope dealers and kids not going to class, getting their papers written for them and subsequently transfers leaving with 18 hours of phys ed credits. The first year Crean was there he had walk ons who could not have made the Muncie Central team the previous 3 years playing in the candy stripe warm ups in Barnett, Finklemeyer, WHite, Danny Moore and Brod Lewis. There is very little in common with that program and what Coach C walked into. That was a hot mess and in no way is anywhere parallel to what walking into OHIO was like.

I am in Coach Christian's corner. I am much too invested in this program not to be. For 6 years I have been on the road with Ohio gear repping at away games iwth schedules, posters, getting autographs for kids from players, helping with boosters, meeting fans and alums from all over the country, spending time talking to recruits and parents....I am goning to be really sad if he does not succeed as TOmmy and I both agreed when he signed here that we would both do everything to leave the place better when we were gone. We talked about a year ago during the mid protion of the season about the foundation having been built to sustain the program for a long time. I want Coach C to do well, and yes I still believe as I have said many times.....OHIO should dominate the MAC year in and year out. There is not a reason that any kid should ever choose any other MAC school when going head to head in recruiting.....good facilities, great campus, lots of majors, we shoud not lose recruiting wars.... I have invested a lot of time, miles, hours and effort to do what little I could to rep OHIO basketball to parents, coaches, scouts, players and anyone else who would listen. I want Coach C to do well to propogate what those guys built the last 5 years. The die is cast and you do not have to walk into a rebuilding year or a program that is shackled with problems of the past. Holtmann and Groce put it on the road with a vision and Shaus and MCDavis supported them. THe fans have been awesome and really have been excellent in supporting the program.

I am trying to bridge the gap;. I have no doubt that Coach C has credentials and a vision. I think your response along with DD is what those who are starting to doubt need to hear. OTOH you all would do well to listen and be mindful that there are folks who are a bit dissapointed in the showing thus far. As long as there is dialogue the extremes will probably end up in the middle with the rest of us. Great points by all in this discussion.

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