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Topic:  Wilt.

Topic:  Wilt.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 1:25:56 AM 
Some stats from IBD's 1/25/15 article on Wilt:

Highest ever field goal percentage in a season -- 72.7%

30.1 career avg is a shade behind Jordan.

Owns top four season averages: 50.4, 44.8, 38.4, 37.6
 
Never fouled out in 1205 games.
 
Averaged 48.5 minutes in 1961-62, missing only 7 minutes all year.
 
Led the league in minutes per game nine times, never averaging less than 42.
 
Had streak of 35 made shots in a row.
                                                                          
Career game rebound average: 22.9. (What would your salary be now if you averaged even 14 per game?)
 
Never got less than 10 rebounds in a game.
 
Career PAR (points plus assists plus rebounds per game) average: Erving 36.9, Jabbar 39.4, Jordan 41.6, Russell 41.9…..Wilt 57.4.
 
1966-67 76ers: 68-13
1971-72 Lakers: 69-13, Wilt shot 65%, 19.2 boards and, I believe, led league in assists.
 
 

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 11:25:49 AM 
Awesome statistics! I loved him when I was a kid. I'm wondering about Russel's totals. Were they that high? I don't think they counted blocks in his day, but maybe they went back and stuck those in. His scoring average was not that high. Of course it matters little, as he was the greatest winner in all of team sports. That was the rap on Wilt, that he didn't win more, but Wilt was the superior player in my book.
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Donuts
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 11:38:36 AM 
99.9% of my interest is focused on only one stat.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 11:55:22 AM 
giacomo wrote:
..... but Wilt was the superior player in my book.


That one will be debated on many levels for all time....Wilt certainly dominated in off court trysts far and away.
Russel had Red Aurbach surrounding him with the greatest talent in basketball and rUSSEL  was a ferocious winner who always put the team first.

My preferences always lie with team over individuals any day.. I like cutting nets down.


never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 12:57:19 PM 
bornacatfan wrote:
My preferences always lie with team over individuals any day.. I like cutting nets down.




Agreed but if you put Russell on the 76ers or Warriors I don't think we are talking about him being the greatest winner in all of sports.  And it wasn't like Wilt was a selfish player going for personnal stats.  He led the NBA in assists one year from the center position.  In the end he didn't win as many because it is a team sport.  I have a feeling that if he had been able to play with Bob Cousy, Bill Sharman, KC and Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Tom Heinsohn and Tom Sanders that he might have had more than one title in his career.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 1:04:41 PM 
Wilt's critics claimed he wasn't a team player - only a scorer. What did Wilt do? Led the association in assists the next year.

No other player (in any sport, I would guess) was the reason for so many rule changes as Wilt.

Arguably the greatest basketball player ever.
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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 1:18:07 PM 
His biggest stat is probably the number of women he dated....cough cough.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 1:54:41 PM 
Russell was the greatest player of his generation. 
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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 2:00:10 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Russell was the greatest player of his generation. 


I concur.
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Bobcatbob
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 3:27:52 PM 
Doc Bobcat wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Russell was the greatest player of his generation. 


I concur.


More concurrence.

Although I thought the underhanded free throw thing was pretty cool. 
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 3:43:09 PM 
A statistical analysis of Chamberlain and Russell's rebounding.


The less informed version of the “Chamberlain/Russell Caveat” (CRC for short) typically goes something like this: “Rodman led the league in rebounding 7 times, making him the greatest re bounder of his era, even though his numbers come nowhere near those of Chamberlain and Russell.”  It is true that, barring some dramatic change in the way the game is played, Chamberlain’s record of 27.2 rebounds per game, set in the 1960-61 season, will stand forever.  This is because, due to the fast pace and terrible shooting, the typical game in 1960-61 featured an average of 147 rebounding opportunities.  During Rodman’s 7-year reign as NBA rebounding champion (from 1991-92 through 1997-98), the typical game featured just 84 rebounding opportunities.  Without further inquiry, this difference alone means that Chamberlain’s record 27.2 rpg would roughly translate to 15.4 in Rodman’s era – over a full rebound less than Rodman’s ~16.7 rpg average over that span.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 4:08:32 PM 
I agree with OUVan.There are many more great players that DON'T win championships than do, so I don't take points off for that alone. It certainly is a plus if you're a great player AND win championships. Rodman was a great rebounder for his size and the era was different. I did look up the stats and steals and blocks were not counted during Wilt's and Russell's day. Their stats would be even gaudier. Rodman looked better in a dress than Wilt, I'm guessing.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 4:40:23 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Rodman looked better in a dress than Wilt, I'm guessing.


Good thing Wilt didn't see him 

Last Edited: 1/28/2013 4:40:59 PM by cc-cat
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 6:14:20 PM 
Wilt had plenty of Hall of Famers who played with him, yet his title count paled in comparison to Russell's. And Wilt lef the league in assists because he made it his mission, not because he was a great team player. Dude got traded twice! Can you imagine a scenario in which Russell gets traded? Bill made it his mission to make his teammates better and get the most out of them. Wilt was an early Kobe: What can you do for me?

And never fouling out is not a good stat. A center who never fouled out? No way. You don't play hard and never foul out.

Last Edited: 1/28/2013 6:15:48 PM by JSF

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 8:03:29 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Russell was the greatest player of his generation. 


Agreed.  

OT SEMI-RANT:  On a personal level, Russell was according to all reports a very sensitive person who suffered great mental torment as a result of the racism he encountered in his early life and later in his professional life.  It was nice to see him "reconciled" with the City of Boston in recent years.  He always struck me as a very good person, but one with an understandable chip on his shoulder.  Wilt, on the other hand, was an excellent ball player who turned out to be a cad in his personal life.

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 10:00:25 PM 
JSF wrote:
Wilt had plenty of Hall of Famers who played with him, yet his title count paled in comparison to Russell's. And Wilt lef the league in assists because he made it his mission, not because he was a great team player. Dude got traded twice! Can you imagine a scenario in which Russell gets traded? Bill made it his mission to make his teammates better and get the most out of them. Wilt was an early Kobe: What can you do for me?

And never fouling out is not a good stat. A center who never fouled out? No way. You don't play hard and never foul out.



Ummm, he was in the top 10 in assists four times including three times in the top 4.  And he was traded for the same reason that Babe Ruth was traded, money. I mean Babe Ruth was trade TWICE of all things. And I love the "he made his teammates better" arguement.  It's easy to say and  impossible to prove.  Are you telling me that Wilt didn't make his teammates better?  
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 10:07:49 PM 
The Celtics were like the Yankees- many great players at any time. Wilt never played with 4 hall of famers at the same time. Not sure you can say Wilt did not play hard at defense just because he never fouled out. How many people tried to drive on him-just asking- don't know.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 10:16:32 PM 
I dunno, go look up some of the things his former teammates said about him. Ambivalent at best and he seemed to have worn out his welcome in San Fran and Philadelphia. Heck, the Lakers sued him because he tried to defect to the ABA. Not something you would see Tim Duncan do. And Ruth wasn't traded in his prime.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Big Willy
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 11:11:28 PM 
OUVan wrote:
bornacatfan wrote:
My preferences always lie with team over individuals any day.. I like cutting nets down.


Agreed but if you put Russell on the 76ers or Warriors I don't think we are talking about him being the greatest winner in all of sports.  And it wasn't like Wilt was a selfish player going for personal stats.  He led the NBA in assists one year from the center position.  In the end he didn't win as many because it is a team sport.  I have a feeling that if he had been able to play with Bob Cousy, Bill Sharman, KC and Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Tom Heinsohn and Tom Sanders that he might have had more than one title in his career.


He had two. And I would take him over Russell. Russell had a great coach and all those great players.

Last Edited: 1/28/2013 11:12:25 PM by Big Willy
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/28/2013 11:24:58 PM 
Some of Wilt's teammates: Nate Thurmond, Gail Goodrich, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Billy Cunningham, Hal Greer. Chopped liver that ain't.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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RSBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/29/2013 12:02:51 AM 
Donuts wrote:
99.9% of my interest is focused on only one stat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-4-gLlF0uw


RS Bobcat

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/29/2013 12:08:38 AM 
Babe Ruth wasn't traded (sold) in his prime?  That's up there with 'I said it. Rush > E Streeters.'  Hint:  Ruth was young, could hit and hurl.

Please listen to Ziggy Stardust and Lou Reed Rock 'n Roll Animal before you post further.

Best--far and away--at getting caught up in the air, particularly going to the hoop, with no place to go--but then finding a very open man for a good shot,  #24 for the Lakers.  Dude knows where everyone is and where everyone should be.  He routinely pulls this off--not only not to bad effect, but to good effect.

Mods--who's this weird Bryce guy over to the right telling me to get a degree in public safety.  "Let's go!"...creepy.



Last Edited: 1/29/2013 12:11:14 AM by Monroe Slavin

Where's the band?!
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Big Willy
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/29/2013 1:11:41 PM 
JSF wrote:
Some of Wilt's teammates: Nate Thurmond, Gail Goodrich, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Billy Cunningham, Hal Greer. Chopped liver that ain't.


And he won championships and set win records with those guys. In 66-67 with Greer and Cunningham, he helped Philadelphia set the all-time NBA win record with 68 and won the NBA Championship. With Goodrich and West in 71-72 he helped the Lakers set a new all-time win record with 69 and won the NBA Championship.
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Senior Fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/29/2013 2:52:39 PM 
Here's an interesting factoid.  Bevo Francis could have joined Wilt, but turned the wage offer and went home to eastern Ohio.  That could have made the difference for the lack of titles.
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Donuts
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wilt.
   Posted: 1/29/2013 3:34:52 PM 
RSBobcat wrote:
Donuts wrote:
99.9% of my interest is focused on only one stat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-4-gLlF0uw



Wasn't an attempt at humor really, but Monroe said this exact thing when discussing DJ Cooper's stats.

Last Edited: 1/29/2013 3:42:15 PM by Donuts
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