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Topic:  Suggest rules changes

Topic:  Suggest rules changes
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/19/2013 9:34:52 PM 
Here's two changes I'd like to see (although I know it will never happen):

1)  Eliminate the shot clock except for the last four minutes of each half.

2)  Eliminate the three point shot except for the last four minutes of each half.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/19/2013 9:39:46 PM 
Eliminate timeouts for the last 4 minutes of each half.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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whocaresgobobcats
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/19/2013 10:27:18 PM 
hahahahahahha


turrible 
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whocaresgobobcats
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/19/2013 10:28:03 PM 
guys let me tell you how fun that tennessee vs. georgetown game was that finished 38-39 or whatever
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/19/2013 10:36:07 PM 
Why not just go full Rock'n'Jock, Jeff?

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/19/2013 10:37:51 PM 
BlockedPunt wrote:
guys let me tell you how fun that tennessee vs. georgetown game was that finished 38-39 or whatever


First team to 50 wins ... in the last 4 minutes.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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bobcat695
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/19/2013 10:38:53 PM 
Jeff, this makes you sound 20 years older than you actually are. The last thing we need is to slow the game down and have less scoring. Is rule #3: Players can only wear Chuck Taylor's?

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/19/2013 10:49:17 PM 
Four mandatory TV timeouts per half plus all the team timeouts make the game almost unwatchable for me nowadays.  Give me games that last 1 hr 40 min including halftime and I would enjoy the game far more than I do now.  As memory serves, when I was in school in the '80's, there weren't all the breaks in play, and I enjoyed the game far more, particularly in person, than I do now.

Last Edited: 2/19/2013 10:49:37 PM by D.A.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/19/2013 11:48:10 PM 
I went to the Butler game tonite. There were only 3 fouls called in the first half and very few play stoppages. That 20 minutes flew by,,,,,Paul Baron came in at halftime wondering if the game had started early. Nope....just a clean, well played half. I am not sure we got all the media timeouts in ...First Butler foul was with just under 4 left and the Dukes only had 2 at that point.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 12:03:27 AM 
Look at tapes of college basketball from the 70s and 80s.  A better offensive flow.  I don't think the game moved slower or had lower scoring prior to the shot clock or the three point line.  You had an actual mid range game.  You had some occasional abuses with stalling and the four corners, but that was not the norm.  Come on Borna, I need you to help me with this.  
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LoganElm_grad09
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 12:54:47 AM 
Hockey would have higher point totals than Eastern Michigan's basketball ones.  No thanks.
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jumper80
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 3:53:44 AM 
-cut team timeouts in half

-reward defense....no timeouts allowed to avoid turnovers, ie, in bounds plays, trapped with ball, back court  10 second call etc.... Timeouts only permitted once ball is in possession in front  court, before put into play on an inbounds, or immediately after made shot. I think this could help marginally eliminate some of the late game fouling as well.

-while I think eliminating the shot clock in any form would be unadvisable at best, I do think there may be merit in changing the clock to say 40-45 seconds. While we reward defense above we then require you to play defense longer, likely rewarding the  offense with better shots on average and again rewards defensive minded teams who can stay focused for the extra time. 

-The 3 pointer stays, I like what it does for the game . I do think moving the 3 pointer back another foot or so may be a good idea.  I like what the 3 pointer has done for the game but it's difficulty doesn't rise above finishing a basket with contact going to the rim  nor should it at it's current difficulty earn 50% more points than the aforementioned mid range jumper which has indeed become a lost art. 
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Suga Fries
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 8:16:23 AM 
bobcat695 wrote:
Jeff, this makes you sound 20 years older than you actually are. The last thing we need is to slow the game down and have less scoring. Is rule #3: Players can only wear Chuck Taylor's?
For the first two minutes of each half.

O Zone VP- 09-10
WT/LT 09-10
B.A.- Poli Sci 10

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 8:34:18 AM 
jumper80 wrote:
-reward defense....no timeouts allowed to avoid turnovers, ie, in bounds plays, trapped with ball, back court  10 second call etc.... Timeouts only permitted once ball is in possession in front  court, before put into play on an inbounds, or immediately after made shot. I think this could help marginally eliminate some of the late game fouling as well.


I like this one.  And to another point you touched on, I kind of can't stand the whole "purposefully foul and hope they miss free throws while we jack up 3s" song and dance at the end of most games.  I wish there was a way to prevent this...But unfortunately I think it is an inherent weakness.

This is 1 of the bigger reasons why baseball is my favorite game...No clock, you can be down 10 with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th and still theoretically win, and the team with the lead still has to throw the ball over the plae and get you out.  No taking a knee, shooting free throws, etc.  Crucial moments of the game should be focused on the battle on the field, not the clock.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 9:33:28 AM 
If I would change the shot clock in any way, I'd shorten it, not do away with it.  Stall ball is horrible basketball to watch at any level.  Maybe it didn't happen all the time back when, but the fact that it could happen is a negative in my humble opinion.  Who wants to watch an NCAA tourney game where Bucknell jumps up on Kansas 22-13 and then kills the clock for several minutes?  Speed the game up, force teams to run some offense with urgency, hopefully get scoring and intensity up.  Slowing the game down doesn't make the game a better viewing product for anyone.

Last Edited: 2/20/2013 9:33:52 AM by 100%Cat
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 10:08:02 AM 

Jeff

Not really excited about your (throwback) changes but that is beside the point. Just stopped here to advance one of my Pops comments while watching hack a shaq and Never Nervous Pervis miss a thousand free throws. He detested the lengthening of the game and trading 3 for 2. His proposal was to award 3 free throws on any foul outside the arc (including the backcourt) anytime the foul ing occurred inthe last 3 minutes. he felt the game was long enough and you should have done your work the previous 37 minutes. Putting the guy on the line is still a good strategy in his mind but there should be an equity and not a penalty for the team that had played the front part of the game.

On another note, I think the rules emphasis on travels, palming and "staying with the shooter", where the referee is instructed to watch the shooter clear through the jump shot need to be revisitied. Jump shooters are trucked on a regular basis while the ref follows the flight of the ball. Palming and carrying the ball gives even the quickest defender a distinct disadvantage when the offensive player freezes the ball in the air. After being in the Euroleague I do not agree with their interpretations I do think they give the offense less of a distinct advantage over the defender and keep it closer to even up.

 

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 10:08:25 AM 
100%Cat wrote:
If I would change the shot clock in any way, I'd shorten it, not do away with it. Stall ball is horrible basketball to watch at any level. Maybe it didn't happen all the time back when, but the fact that it could happen is a negative in my humble opinion. Who wants to watch an NCAA tourney game where Bucknell jumps up on Kansas 22-13 and then kills the clock for several minutes? Speed the game up, force teams to run some offense with urgency, hopefully get scoring and intensity up. Slowing the game down doesn't make the game a better viewing product for anyone.


I like whatever style wins the game, it's really that simple.
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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 10:41:05 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
100%Cat wrote:
If I would change the shot clock in any way, I'd shorten it, not do away with it. Stall ball is horrible basketball to watch at any level. Maybe it didn't happen all the time back when, but the fact that it could happen is a negative in my humble opinion. Who wants to watch an NCAA tourney game where Bucknell jumps up on Kansas 22-13 and then kills the clock for several minutes? Speed the game up, force teams to run some offense with urgency, hopefully get scoring and intensity up. Slowing the game down doesn't make the game a better viewing product for anyone.


I like whatever style wins the game, it's really that simple.


Whatever floats your boat.  If it's a style of play that would allow me to walk to the Convo bathroom during play, do my business, come back 3-4 minutes later and not have missed anything, that sounds like slightly less than thrilling basketball to me.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 11:50:40 AM 
100%Cat wrote:
Whatever floats your boat.  If it's a style of play that would allow me to walk to the Convo bathroom during play, do my business, come back 3-4 minutes later and not have missed anything, that sounds like slightly less than thrilling basketball to me.


That is the mantra of many folks who oppose a shot clock in High school. Till High schools are openly allowed to recruit to a system a la colleges then a coach has to use what he gets in the public schools system and devise a system based on his classes/players/skillsets that year.  Really exceptional High schools coaches play to their assets and cover their weakness by adapting their program to the atheltes while colleges go about the opposite way finding players for the system. High School as opposed to the college game is more for the athletes and less for the folks watching than college. I.E. basketball at that level is not a business or entertainment for the masses whereas college has long since made that leap.

I am in no way espousing a return to the days of Dean Smith and fully support the clock in college ball, but purely philosophically, if you were to do an analysis of games without a shot clock or conducted a controlled experiment where there is no visible clock you would only find a handful of teams that would actually use the entire time. Just for fun go up to the Y and clock  how much time each possession takes.

How many games before the shot clock (outside of Dean Smith's tar heels) was instituted can you verfy that you actually remember when someone took 3 or 4 minutes to get a shot while you went to the restroom?

There is a whole nother discussion on the skills needed to keep a ball moving without making mistakes in the presence of a team defending while running time off a clock. (fade to a Clip of James WOrthy in Carolina Blue....)

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 11:50:49 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Here's two changes I'd like to see (although I know it will never happen):

1)  Eliminate the shot clock except for the last four minutes of each half.

2)  Eliminate the three point shot except for the last four minutes of each half.
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 12:08:06 PM 

Dean Smith is the only man who could stop Michael Jordan.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 1:26:45 PM 
bornacatfan wrote:
100%Cat wrote:
Whatever floats your boat.  If it's a style of play that would allow me to walk to the Convo bathroom during play, do my business, come back 3-4 minutes later and not have missed anything, that sounds like slightly less than thrilling basketball to me.


That is the mantra of many folks who oppose a shot clock in High school. Till High schools are openly allowed to recruit to a system a la colleges then a coach has to use what he gets in the public schools system and devise a system based on his classes/players/skillsets that year.  Really exceptional High schools coaches play to their assets and cover their weakness by adapting their program to the atheltes while colleges go about the opposite way finding players for the system. High School as opposed to the college game is more for the athletes and less for the folks watching than college. I.E. basketball at that level is not a business or entertainment for the masses whereas college has long since made that leap.

I am in no way espousing a return to the days of Dean Smith and fully support the clock in college ball, but purely philosophically, if you were to do an analysis of games without a shot clock or conducted a controlled experiment where there is no visible clock you would only find a handful of teams that would actually use the entire time. Just for fun go up to the Y and clock  how much time each possession takes.

How many games before the shot clock (outside of Dean Smith's tar heels) was instituted can you verfy that you actually remember when someone took 3 or 4 minutes to get a shot while you went to the restroom?

There is a whole nother discussion on the skills needed to keep a ball moving without making mistakes in the presence of a team defending while running time off a clock. (fade to a Clip of James WOrthy in Carolina Blue....)


I wasn't meaning or intending to imply that it would happen, simply that it could happen.  You do see this now in style of play, look at the comments on the EMU thread for tonight.  EMU is a team that slows the tempo, tries to limit possessions, play a half court game, and keep the score down.  Is it out of the question that a team that is significantly outmatched in a non-shot clock game could try to significantly reduce possessions in order to stay within striking distance of a superior team or hold a lead?  I don't think it is.  Of course it is not likely that a team would hold the ball for 3-4 minutes, but the prospect that the rules could allow it should be enough to force people to say it's a bad idea.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 2:41:10 PM 
100%Cat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
100%Cat wrote:
If I would change the shot clock in any way, I'd shorten it, not do away with it. Stall ball is horrible basketball to watch at any level. Maybe it didn't happen all the time back when, but the fact that it could happen is a negative in my humble opinion. Who wants to watch an NCAA tourney game where Bucknell jumps up on Kansas 22-13 and then kills the clock for several minutes? Speed the game up, force teams to run some offense with urgency, hopefully get scoring and intensity up. Slowing the game down doesn't make the game a better viewing product for anyone.


I like whatever style wins the game, it's really that simple.


Whatever floats your boat. If it's a style of play that would allow me to walk to the Convo bathroom during play, do my business, come back 3-4 minutes later and not have missed anything, that sounds like slightly less than thrilling basketball to me.


So you'd rather average 80 points a game and be .500 than average 50 points a game and hang banners?

Borna, very good analysis, I'd agree.
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stub
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 3:05:17 PM 
Coaches should not be able to call timeouts.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Suggest rules changes
   Posted: 2/20/2013 3:08:44 PM 
stub wrote:
Coaches should not be able to call timeouts.


What's your basis for that?
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