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Topic: How football is played

Topic: How football is played

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Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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How football is played

Posted: 3/21/2013 10:53:49 PM

This has mostly to do with the mental approach, with how a team is run.

Who's your buddy who's long urged football to run uptempo often (Oregon offense, pressure D)? Which has been fairly widely copied, generally to good effect.

Now we see VCU constant defense pressure (which your old buddy has urged, too) and an offense with multiple screens pretty much constantly, either at different points on the court or in series in order to free up one man.

Exposing 'kron and, referently, us (0-3 vs, 'kron). VCU is playing a different brand of hoop.

Sure, their athletes are good. But anyone can use this approach and I thought you told me that we have depth.

And don't lay it to 'kron's weakness/flu today, This is about a smart brand of basketball.

Last Edited: 3/21/2013 10:56:18 PM by Monroe Slavin

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bornacatfan
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Member Since: 8/3/2006
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RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/21/2013 11:04:41 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I wanted to say this ....this is a guards game. Ball movement and defensive pressure and increased possessions is where the game seems to be going with an absence of big men that are skilled (or may be leaving early)...

I like it ...always have. I remember Dayton DUnbar playing this way back in the 60 and 70 s. Defensive pressure and lot s of sharing.

One thing VCU has is a dearth of unselfish players. 3 on 1 and the middle kicks out for the easy 3. Too many guys go to the rim instead of making the smart play in that situation. How many times do the VCU guys tap the ball instead of trying to pick it up in traffic. .

No pun in that last line Monroe? Not to critique the syntax but that is some use of who's up there .

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

Wilson Hall Record Holder
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Member Since: 11/13/2010
Post Count: 154

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RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/21/2013 11:08:58 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

This has mostly to do with the mental approach, with how a team is run.

Who's your buddy who's long urged football to run uptempo often (Oregon offense, pressure D)? Which has been fairly widely copied, generally to good effect.

Now we see VCU constant defense pressure (which your old buddy has urged, too) and an offense with multiple screens pretty much constantly, either at different points on the court or in series in order to free up one man.

Exposing 'kron and, referently, us. VCU is playing a different brand of hoop,

Sure, they're athletes are good. But anyone can use this approach and I thought you told me that we have depth.

And don't lay it to 'kron's weakness/flu today, This is about a smart brand of basketball.

Hey Monroe

As much as I share your views in this regard you should realize that you're arguing with the equivalent a lot of emotional women in here.

The truth doesn't matter. (unless it's one that favors our Bobcats) They will all accept a pretty lie every day of the week compared to the ugly truth about our Bobcats.

Facts don't matter. To paraphrase a great line from a very good comedian when speaking on men arguing with their girlfriends or wives...."Men have the handicap in an argument of actually needing to make sense...emotional women don't have such silly constraints"

We are all watching VCU do the exact same thing to a team with a raw as you know what freshman point guard that I said we should have done in the MAC title game. My failure is that sadly it actually makes sense to do the same thing our seniors were recruited here to do while at the same time shining a bright light on Akron's weaknesses. Again, making sense is not welcome here in a honest and negative post about our Bobcats.

The only negative thing you're allowed to say our our Bobcats apparently is that the season is over. Anything beyond that is clearly unwarranted.

Fortunately, we aren't the only ones who frequent this fine site who have a problem with the absolute truth.

Last Edited: 3/21/2013 11:11:04 PM by Wilson Hall Record Holder

GraffZ06
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Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 2,253

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RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/21/2013 11:18:49 PM

If you enjoy athletic guards, full-court pressure D, and an uptempo style you're most likely not going to be sending Jim Christian many Christmas cards in the near future.

My hunch is we're gonna get lots bigger, lots stronger, lots slower and lots more methodical moving forward. You could just tell all year that JC hated our style of play but was forced to go with it due to our personnel.

I agree with you guys that I'd much prefer the Groce/Smart philosophy ESPECIALLY for a middie like OU.

There just aren't enough talented bigs to go around. The few there are, are getting recruited to play for the big boys. Much easier for an OU or VCU to recruit a stud PG than a stud 6'10 kid (not to mention the natural progression of the game to quicker, smaller more athletic as you both eluded to).

I think JC will have plenty of success in the MAC with his style, but good luck when we ever play big name teams on a national stage because our philosophy will play right into their strengths only they're gonna be bigger and better at it than we are.

Which leads directly into the "great divide" amongst OU fans currently. If you had to pick one or the other, would you prefer to dominate the MAC consistently but get drilled on the national stage, or would you prefer to be up and down in the MAC but have a style that allows for better match-ups and runs in March? Those who prefer the previous will love JC. Those who want the latter are going to be disappointed (or at least left wanting).

JSF
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Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
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RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/21/2013 11:20:11 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

One thing VCU has is a dearth of unselfish players. 3 on 1 and the middle kicks out for the easy 3. Too many guys go to the rim instead of making the smart play in that situation. How many times do the VCU guys tap the ball instead of trying to pick it up in traffic.

I don't understand your meaning here. Can you rephrase?

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

crackerbaby00
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Member Since: 3/8/2007
Post Count: 442

Status: Offline

RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/21/2013 11:26:01 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

I like the Groce style more, but I do think that if we were to dominate the MAC with Christian's style, it will only be natural to attract more talented recruits. Does VCU win because of their style of play? Yes it certainly helps. But they have also been able to to parlay their recent success in conference and on a national level into better players wanting to play there. Johnson and Burgess were both top 100 recruits and Reddic chose VCU over UMD.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 4,099

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RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/21/2013 11:28:13 PM

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

This has mostly to do with the mental approach, with how a team is run.

Who's your buddy who's long urged football to run uptempo often (Oregon offense, pressure D)? Which has been fairly widely copied, generally to good effect.

Now we see VCU constant defense pressure (which your old buddy has urged, too) and an offense with multiple screens pretty much constantly, either at different points on the court or in series in order to free up one man.

Exposing 'kron and, referently, us. VCU is playing a different brand of hoop,

Sure, they're athletes are good. But anyone can use this approach and I thought you told me that we have depth.

And don't lay it to 'kron's weakness/flu today, This is about a smart brand of basketball.

If there's one word to describe your posts around here, it's definitely rational.

Wilson Hall Record Holder
General User

Member Since: 11/13/2010
Post Count: 154

Status: Offline

RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/22/2013 12:05:29 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

This has mostly to do with the mental approach, with how a team is run.

Who's your buddy who's long urged football to run uptempo often (Oregon offense, pressure D)? Which has been fairly widely copied, generally to good effect.

Now we see VCU constant defense pressure (which your old buddy has urged, too) and an offense with multiple screens pretty much constantly, either at different points on the court or in series in order to free up one man.

Exposing 'kron and, referently, us. VCU is playing a different brand of hoop,

Sure, they're athletes are good. But anyone can use this approach and I thought you told me that we have depth.

And don't lay it to 'kron's weakness/flu today, This is about a smart brand of basketball.

If there's one word to describe your posts around here, it's definitely rational.

Many things beyond your grasp are fortunately labled the same. :-)

You know the way you just implied that my advocating we attack a team with an unproven freshman point guard is in a word...rational.

That if a 7 footer is guarding our MAC player of the year that we make him move side to side off a number of screens..... clearly rational

Anytime you wish to talk basketball please know you have an open door.....one can never have enough ration.

Last Edited: 3/22/2013 12:09:40 AM by Wilson Hall Record Holder

Wilson Hall Record Holder
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Member Since: 11/13/2010
Post Count: 154

Status: Offline

RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/22/2013 1:16:27 AM

Dang it Sense of Shame....see what I just did?

Practically no sooner than I try to share my wisdom about arguing with so so many people in here that I actually reply to you and try to make sense!! instead of just using nothing but emotion to make my point.

My Bad....

Go Bobcats! :-)

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 4,099

Status: Offline

RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/22/2013 9:48:05 AM

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

This has mostly to do with the mental approach, with how a team is run.

Who's your buddy who's long urged football to run uptempo often (Oregon offense, pressure D)? Which has been fairly widely copied, generally to good effect.

Now we see VCU constant defense pressure (which your old buddy has urged, too) and an offense with multiple screens pretty much constantly, either at different points on the court or in series in order to free up one man.

Exposing 'kron and, referently, us. VCU is playing a different brand of hoop,

Sure, they're athletes are good. But anyone can use this approach and I thought you told me that we have depth.

And don't lay it to 'kron's weakness/flu today, This is about a smart brand of basketball.

If there's one word to describe your posts around here, it's definitely rational.

That's the beauty of your posts, and I mean this genuinely--the tiny specks of substance you provide get completely drown out by your insistence that anybody who disagrees with you is an irrational woman. In your mind, somehow the thousands of words you've graced us with over the last couple of weeks count as basketball analysis, when in actuality they've been really weird musings about how you're speaking the truth, and how everybody is in confederacy against you. If you were to post like, I dunno, an adult, and in a thoughtful, conversational tone go "Anybody other than me think we should have pressured the ball 90 feet against Akron?" plenty of people would have agreed with you. Instead, you couple that idea with sky-is-falling drivel and a holier-than-thou "I'm the only one who sees the truth here" attitude. And that's what I was calling irrational, not the 17 words of actual basketball analysis that you've posted in the last 2 weeks.

As for your actual basketball analysis, here are my guesses:

We got into foul trouble early in that game. Smith and Hall both had foul issues, and teams who press a lot have a tendency to commit more fouls (unless you're VCU, and the officials inexplicably let you get away with more contact that anybody else in the nation). Additionally, the foul trouble shortened our bench in a game that we were playing a back-to-back. Not ideal situations to pressure the ball 90 feet. Additionally, Akron killed us on the boards all 3 times we played them and a lot of teams struggle to get back and rebound when pressuring the ball. I don't know if those were Christians thoughts or not. Regardless, the fact that the logic behind this thread is VCU just dominated Akron with pressure, therefore, we would have dominated Akron with pressure doesn't really hold up. VCU is one of the better defensive teams in the country, we're not. A lot of that has to do with our big men this year who had a disturbing tendency to miss rotations in favor of going for the big block (I'm looking at Reggie and Ivo here, not Smith who I think is a very good defender).

DJ struggled against long defenders his entire career. That's how Bruce Pearl disrupted our offense, that's how Belmont disrupted our offense, and why DJ shot a combined 3-28 against UNC and Akron in the final games of the last two seasons. If you have length, and that length is quick enough to hedge ball screens and corral his attemps to drive, DJ turns into a one dimensional player. And unfortunately, that dimension is deep 3's.

Lastly, we shot 1-20 from 3. A lot of them were good looks, too. The idea that pressuring the ball more was the difference in that game is ludicrous. It reads as nothing more than a desperate attempt to make Christian more culpable for this team's failings that he actually is.

But ultimately, you're right about your major point, which is: Go Bobcats. We all want the same things here and I still think we'll get there. Keep the faith and all of that good stuff.

Edit: I'll also say, in regards to the Akron game, that Smith's foul troubles were the big turning point for me. I thought the refs got him on 2 ticky tack calls early, which forced him to sit for a long time, and from my vantage point this year (which, in Brooklyn with even the fanciest of direct TV packages only allowed for 5 or 6 games this year) Smith was a key for us this year. As a screen and roll guy, he really attacked the basket much better than any of our big men, and that played into one of DJ's strengths really well. Smith is basically our version of Tyson Chandler. Doesn't have a developed offensive game, but finishes well around the basket, attacks it well, sets very good screens, and is a big difference maker on defense. Without him, especially against a team with Akron's size, we really fell apart.

Last Edited: 3/22/2013 9:54:27 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 1,926

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RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/22/2013 9:57:43 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

DJ struggled against long defenders his entire career. That's how Bruce Pearl disrupted our offense, that's how Belmont disrupted our offense, and why DJ shot a combined 3-28 against UNC and Akron in the final games of the last two seasons. If you have length, and that length is quick enough to hedge ball screens and corral his attemps to drive, DJ turns into a one dimensional player. And unfortunately, that dimension is deep 3's.

Lastly, we shot 1-20 from 3. A lot of them were good looks, too. The idea that pressuring the ball more was the difference in that game is ludicrous. It reads as nothing more than a desperate attempt to make Christian more culpable for this team's failings that he actually is.

100% agree. Its nice to see someone with some actual analysis on why they think we lost, other than the trite "We were out-coached, and we didn't hustle very much" argument we see on here every other day.

bobcat2nc
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Member Since: 12/28/2004
Post Count: 584

Status: Offline

RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/22/2013 11:00:22 AM

I wanted to be the only person who is absolutely right today. I guess I was too late.

I do agree with the analysis of VCU's brand of basketball. I like it.

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: How football is played

Posted: 3/22/2013 1:47:27 PM

Sense of Shame and Tilly--I agree that this year DJ was stopped by tall/long defenders. But not so much last year. I'm thinking of the NC game. DJ wasn't stellar but the TEAM got it done.

Which ties to two things that irk me. One of our players provided no help, no offensive smarts. This left teams able to concentrate on stopping Coop...which any rational coach would do when playing us. Against UNC, our other guys did their thing and the net was very good for us.

The other thing seems to be that we didn't execute well this year it seems to me. Picks up top not as well executed, defense not as sharp, especially on help defense.

I hope everyone learns and gets better--in all aspects of their lives....and here, especially, I hope that our coaches grow and learn, too.

Last Edited: 3/22/2013 1:49:17 PM by Monroe Slavin

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