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Ohio Basketball

Topic: The guards

Topic: The guards

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allen
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Member Since: 1/24/2006
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The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 7:40:12 AM

They have cooled down significantly. We need one of them to step up and be consistent. Same goes for our three position.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Eagle66
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 8:26:37 AM

allen wrote:

They have cooled down significantly. We need one of them to step up and be consistent. Same goes for our three position.

I would disagree in Nick's case. He had a bad game at Morgan state, but has played very well otherwise. Especially his 90.5 FT% on a team shooting 69.5%.

Nick's Scoring

N. Iowa 16

OSU 21

Valpo 16

@ Morgan state 7

Heidelberg 18

Mercer 12

Ohio69
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 8:36:49 AM

allen wrote:

They have cooled down significantly. We need one of them to step up and be consistent. Same goes for our three position.

Was thinking that same thing looking at stats from the Mercer game. Nice to see Smith and Ndour step it up though.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

OUVan
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 9:07:26 AM

It looks to me that Christian really wants Willis to win the job but he just hasn't done it. He is a better on-ball defender than Stevie but the offense seems to come to a halt when he's in there. I don't think I've seen Willis drive and kick it out at all this year. He's done a few of the drive-and-dump to the bigs but not a lot of kick outs. Stevie has done a much better job of distributing but he is regularly getting talked to by other players on the defensive end.

bornacatfan
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 9:32:23 AM

OUVan wrote:

. He is a better on-ball defender than Stevie but the offense seems to come to a halt when he's in there. I don't think I've seen Willis drive and kick it out at all this year......... Stevie has done a much better job of distributing but he is regularly getting talked to by other players on the defensive end.

My take is much different Van.

WHen I am in the Convo watching and Bean is defending the guy with the ball .....he spends an inordinate amount of the time out front looking over the shoulder for screens coming and frequently gets beat first step because of that. He consistently goes under screens and the ball handler gets the step to turn the corner , reverse his dribble or shoot an uncontested shot. I can't quite put my finger on what it is about what he learned at the lower levels that really bothers me but I am searching. Stevie on the other hand has come up withsome key steals and caused a number of deflections and turns.

The other thing I have seen with Bean is that in many cases when he is ducking under, getting beat or whatever ...he, like Ivo ....leaves other players to draw fouls as they rotate to help. Does not do you any good to have big men on the bench because your guard got beat.

Bean has been jacking a shot every time it comes back to him off a pass to the weak side. Green light for him takes precedence over playmaking for sure. Like you, I did notice on strong side....he dribbles the air out of the ball....though that is improving as the games go on.....and he catches and holds the ball and assays the floor instead of continuing to "keep the ball hot".

Both guards have strengths and weakness' ....ST has been the clear floor leader but is becoming seemingly less engaged as JC tries to spoon feed Bean to the mix.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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bobcat695
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 9:40:30 AM

Stevie is clearly the better PG based on play so far this year. Willis is a worse ball handler against pressure, does not penetrate as effectively as ST, and cannot create his shot as well. He had a 3 pt shot blocked by a guard again last night right in front of my seat. He had two absolutely awful fast break turnovers last night and his defense is just plain bad. Watch his feet in man defense. He gets crossed over and lets his man drive down the middle of the court with alarming regularity.

Stevie is much better at lateral movement on defense and beating his man to the spot. When Bean is in the game, the bigs have to help in the middle after he gets beat, then it creates wide open shots on the wings or fouls in the lane. I hope Stevie has the stamina to play his style for 30+minutes a game because Ohio is a better team when he is on the court. I had no idea what to expect with Willis, but had high hopes. At this point, I am really impressed with Stevie's game this year. He has done a really good job transitioning from back up to leader.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

OUVan
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 10:04:27 AM

bornacatfan wrote:

Alright, then Stevie's advantage is much bigger. Interesting points that I hadn't noticed.

OU_Country
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 10:07:09 AM

bobcat695 wrote:

At this point, I am really impressed with Stevie's game this year. He has done a really good job transitioning from back up to leader.

This is exactly what I'm taking from it so far. Stevie and Nick have elevated their games and leadership.

C Money
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 10:23:53 AM

I'm confused. That was a good win last night. We've had several good wins this year, with different players stepping up at different times to make plays. Why is it a problem if our guards aren't tearing up the box scores when our bigs (who are frequently still at a size disadvantage relative to the other team) are getting double-doubles?

This is the worst 5-1 team in America.

bornacatfan
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 10:26:11 AM

FWIW I think Bean has to step up and run this thing. We really need that efficient 2nd guard to run the point. DJ played and played and played......that is kind of unusual in college hoops. ST is not .....IMHO..... a 40 minute a night guy...he needs a blow and we need not to drop off in efficiency or production when he sits. Different teams are going to need different plans and mismatches must be covered. Bean is a good addition to the roster....JC knows it...we know it...we just got to get him locked into the system and showing his best stuff night in and night out.

Ohio69
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 10:31:08 AM

C Money wrote:

Well I don't see any real bashing going on here. Just discussing away.....

Dig the analysis by Bornacatfan. That's stuff I just don't even know to look for in games.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

OhioCatFan
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 10:43:03 AM

Last night at one point Bean jacked up a three that rattled around and then dropped out. The look on Bean's face when the shot didn't drop in was one that I interpreted as one of disgust at himself. At that point, he seemed to lose a lot of confidence. Later in the game he passed up some wide-open shots because, I think, of this loss of confidence. I get the impression that if he gets on a roll and drops a few shots in row that he'll be a different player. I think he's suffering from a real confidence problem at this point, for some reason.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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OUVan
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 11:08:04 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Later in the game he passed up some wide-open shots because, I think, of this loss of confidence. I get the impression that if he gets on a roll and drops a few shots in row that he'll be a different player. I think he's suffering from a real confidence problem at this point, for some reason.

Speaking of confidence, Travis Wilkins seems to be suffering from the same disease. He passed up a couple of shots that I thought he should have taken and then rushed a couple that he did take. That being said, he had a very good first half last night IMO. He was active in every other area and was a big part of our run out to a big lead.

PhiTau74
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 11:15:42 AM

Smith could have had 25 if he would take that 10' jumper from the side, he had open looks 5-6 times but passed. Guess he lacks the confidence to take it.

BobcatSports
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 11:38:36 AM

Agree with you Borna that Stevie is probably not built to be the 40min PG and does need to be spelled for a time. That said, I think JC has been a little quick at the trigger to be taking ST out and Bean in even before the 1st media time-out once the ball has been tipped off. Stevie has barely even gotten into the flow of the game and he's headed to the bench prematurely IMHO.

I understand the need to have Bean be a contributor. Just think JC could pick his spots a little more judiciously to be inserting Bean into the action. I'm no X's and O's guru, but I think at this juncture, ST has clearly earned and deserves the majority of minutes on the floor.

bobcat695
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 11:38:56 AM

Jon took more jump shots last night than I have ever seen him take in a game. He just didn't make them. He is electric around the rim on both ends of the floor. Jon has turned into a game changer with the combination of rebouding, shot blocking and keeping the ball alive on the offensive end. I watch him play and still can't believe he is only 6'7". I love his energy on the court.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Bobcat Love
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 2:56:14 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

I'm only reading posts by Borna and 695 on this subject. They GET it. The rest of you should just run for cover.

Antonio Pierce
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 3:27:52 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

Jon shot 7 of 12 from the field, the same as Maurice. Maurice had more foul shot attempts and two three pointers leading to his high score. I think Jon was 1 of 3 on shots outside the paint.

Don't let one day define the rest of your life.

TWT
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 4:07:25 PM

OU_Country wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

At this point, I am really impressed with Stevie's game this year. He has done a really good job transitioning from back up to leader.

This is exactly what I'm taking from it so far. Stevie and Nick have elevated their games and leadership.

The surprise is how much talent from the 2012 Sweet 16 team Groce assembled is still on the roster. Its enough with the addition of NDour to make another NCAA run.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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PhiTau74
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/27/2013 7:04:19 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

I'm only reading posts by Borna and 695 on this subject. They GET it. The rest of you should just run for cover.

Really don't understand this comment at all. His shooting has been great all year (look at his percentage) and it was great last night. Shoot it more, are you saying you disagree? They get what?

allen
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/28/2013 2:03:37 AM

you need consistent back court play to win championships. Your guards cannot be outscored and outplayed consistently and win games. These last two games should get the coaches attentions on the guards, this could be a very special team we just need some consistent play from the 1, 2 and 3 positions. Lets get it now. Go cats!

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

OUVan
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Location: Bethesda, MD
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RE: The guards

Posted: 11/28/2013 8:11:28 AM

PhiTau74 wrote:

Really don't understand this comment at all. His shooting has been great all year (look at his percentage) and it was great last night. Shoot it more, are you saying you disagree?

90% of his shots are within a foot of the rim. His shots from 10-15 ft have a considerably lower FG%. My guess is that he can hit those shots but I'd bet he's below 50% so far. Anectdotally I would say he's probably about 2-6 on those shots so far this year. IMO we just don't have enough evidence to know if we want him taking those shots regularly yet. But he's definitely getting much more confidence offensively and has been a big plus so far this year.

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