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Topic: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Topic: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

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bornacatfan
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new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/28/2013 10:44:46 PM

As we go forward there is a lot of talk and analysis. Best article I have come across yet. Well done.

I think the game is going to be better in the long run and the folks who want to bitch about it will finally realize that their basketball ADD will be well rewarded with better movement, more scoring and a more satisfying, closer to the "non contact" sport hoops should be.

Read the article ...puhhhhhleeeezzzee.....if you are going to jump in here. It is much too easy (and acceptable these days ) to comment without actually considering, reading about, ruminating on and synthesizing a thought when posting. If you run across any equally compelling articles please share.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

BillyTheCat
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/28/2013 10:53:52 PM

I agree and I am happy to see these changes. Watching modern basketball and muggings all the time was getting old.

bobcat2nc
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/29/2013 8:10:44 AM

Saw the article and agree completely. We had a lengthy discussion here on BA last year about the physical muggings (I believe it started after a trip to one of the directional michigan schools where the occasional basketball game broke out from their team). If your memory serves you well (Bob Dylan reference) you'll remember there was general agreement on this board that we would rather see basketball played with less fouling going on. If this new emphasis gets that done then I can tolerate some longer games in the short run.

Ohio69
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/29/2013 8:40:07 AM

Well, they better be right. Some of these games are a joke with all the fouls right now. Like our game at TOSU where Craft knew he would get a whistle every time he crossed the 3 point line.

And Rick Pitino talking about a cleaner game is hilarious.

Last Edited: 11/29/2013 8:41:54 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

OUVan
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/29/2013 9:14:07 AM

Ohio69 wrote:

I think it will change because the players will adapt. The only thing I don't like about the way they are calling it now is that once a guy starts to drive there is virtually no way to stop him. Right now even guys that are totally out of control are being bailed out if they jump into a defender down low. I agree that the mugging had to stop but I never had a problem with the charge. They claim it makes it easier on the ref but I disagree. It just changes the point where their judgement call happens. I'm adopting a wait-and-see attitude.

Pataskala
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/29/2013 10:33:38 AM

Scoring started to dip about the time the 3-pt shot was instituted. Too often, players stay behind the arc to go for the lower-percentage three instead of taking a step or two in for a higher percentage two.

This first season under the new rules will be brutal as teams adapt. One reason why scoring is up is because of the additional free throws -- although the article says it's only been 2.6 per game, that means teams are getting into the bonus and the double bonus earlier, so they're getting an extra five or six FTs a game. But it's more stoppages, so the game seems a lot slower. Our game vs O$U was by far the worst we've seen for foul calls this season, so I don't know if it was the players or the refs.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

cbarber357
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/29/2013 11:30:53 AM

I hope something changes. These new rules ruin the flow of the games. I was watching Oklahoma state play the other day and it should have been entertaining with Marcus Smart scoring like 20 in the first half, but instead it was just brutal to watch because his points were mostly foul shots. Both teams were in the bonus in like 5 minutes.

RSBobcat
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/29/2013 12:30:33 PM

"Incidental" contact that does not "impede", or "disrupt", the players movement, shot, or passing of the ball should not be a foul. It's basketball, not a game of "reverse tag".

Craft took advantage of the refs tendency to blow the quick whistle at the slightest contact. I think the tendency so far has encouraged more "charging" to some degree - "leaning into" the defensive player.

The advantage now even more goes to the ball handler who takes the initiative, with the quick first step - i.e. Craft.

We just need to react to the changes as good as or better than OUr opponents - Drive to the rim more (or drive and dish), quicker drives/slashes (i.e Johnson so far has done this the best), quicker inlet passes when someone posts up down low, and then draw the contact when at the rim (or under).

Then also of course - hit the free throws.

RS Bobcat

OUVan
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/29/2013 12:38:55 PM

RSBobcat wrote:

We just need to react to the changes as good as or better than OUr opponents - Drive to the rim more (or drive and dish), quicker drives/slashes (i.e Johnson so far has done this the best), quicker inlet passes when someone posts up down low, and then draw the contact when at the rim (or under).

Then also of course - hit the free throws.

I think we have started to adapt. Against Mercer late in the game we held the ball until late in the count and then drove. It worked great.

RSBobcat
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/29/2013 12:43:13 PM

OUVan wrote:

RSBobcat wrote:

I think we have started to adapt. Against Mercer late in the game we held the ball until late in the count and then drove. It worked great.

I agree - we have seen some good adaptation. "Pace" - of player movement, and ball movement - as critical as ever.

RS Bobcat

colobobcat66
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 11/29/2013 9:32:02 PM

I'm guessing we see more blocks with all the driving to the basket. Teams will adjust to the new rules. I'm wondering what the average length if games are now, although I know they have to be longer.

bornacatfan
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 12/1/2013 9:20:34 AM

amazing sequence yesterday in direct opposition to what has been called all year. Setty has a charge called on a putback rebound and then on the other end next play is set for a day and then gets called for a block on a play where he not only was there before the ball came up but after it was gone from the hand. Inexcusable. Inconsistent with the rule the way it is being called and inconsistent end to end.

I think you are going to see more players meeting the driving offense at the rim and less whistles for what has been an automatic call. I think they are letting them play up top rather than be sadddled with the block/charge down low.

the second play I had a problem with was the block call where the offensive player was blowing down the lane and turned backwards throwing his body into the player that had been standing in the lane for a long time., The offensive player was clearly out of control while the defensive player had really not moved since the ball crossed mid court. That can not be an automatic block in any form. WIth 3 guys out there that still needs to be a discussion and a no call, a travel or a block.

The Bozone
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 12/1/2013 10:43:49 AM

Once the defender has established a legal guarding position, the official’s decision really is which player is responsible for the contact. Although the defender is required to have two feet on the floor to ESTABLISH a legal guarding position, contrary to the urban myth, the defender is NOT required to have two feet on the floor to maintain a legal guarding position. The defender “May shift to maintain guarding position in the path of the dribbler, provided that the guard does not charge into the dribbler or otherwise cause contact (Rule 4, Section 17, Article 6.d).. So it comes down to who initiated the contact, in which case it seems to me that Pitino’s comment that 80% should be blocking calls shows his colors and is just political garbage. Rooting for the purity of the game (including the defender's right to a position on the floor) is an uphill battle.

RSBobcat
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 12/1/2013 11:02:08 AM

I thought Setty had certainly "established" position on that call - but this article may indicate why he was called for the block - just when did the shooter, "begin his shot"?????

RS Bobcat

Monroe Slavin
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 12/1/2013 12:04:22 PM

Either way, I like Setty's determination to have impact. Dude isn't out there just taking up space. He's fighting and bound to win the fray for Old Ohio.

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OU_Country
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 12/3/2013 11:37:02 AM

OUVan wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

The biggest issue I've seen was the O$U game thus far. Craft, on more than one occasion was given a foul call by dropping his shoulder and leaning/plowing into the defender. We're not talking about beating the defender to a spot, or the defender being late. I'm talking about him going straight at him and running into him to get the foul called. For that to be called a "block" shouldn't be acceptable.

I think that game was an outlier from what I've seen this year so far, and that that specific game wasn't well officiated. I agree with OUVan's stance -- sometimes the defender has no way to stop a driving player. The example borna cites that was called on Setty was horrible. And, it's exactly what Setty should have done -- get to the spot first to help.

If they can clean up these kinds of examples where the defenders aren't getting a fair deal, I think the "new rules" are better. Beyond that, I still maintain that people aren't buying tickets, or buying TV rights to watch teams shoot tons of free throws a game.

bornacatfan
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 12/3/2013 11:42:29 AM

ken pom blogs on the numbers and the new world being created

kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/our_brave_new_world

got to love the last paragraph

Last Edited: 12/3/2013 11:46:04 AM by bornacatfan

GoCats105
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 12/3/2013 12:36:14 PM

The biggest myth about basketball is that it's supposed to be a "physical" game. In reality it's not. I concede that at some point during the game, you have to "put your eggs in one basket," go "balls to the wall" and "man up," but not at the expense of losing control and disrupting the flow of the game. Basketball is a game of flow, execution, and beating the other guy to the spot. It's a thinking man's game, too.

Like the article Borna posted above, "UCLA's teams were a symphony." That's what basketball should be.

When I was playing in high school, we were never taught to be physical with other players or keep our hands on ballhandlers while guarding the ball. We were taught to move our feet, force out to the side and baselines and beat the offensive player to the spot at all costs. If you got beat, you got beat. Work harder and try again. Don't foul, you've only got five. If they have to run through you to get to the basket, fall down and get the call. High school is officiated a little bit differently, but they are the same principles.

Our coach used to hate muscle guys and he would always encourage us to guard them tight, because at some point their physicality is going to take over and more often than not it will result in either an offensive foul or even intentional.

Personally, I hate the term "charge" when the offensive player is called. It makes it seem like an intentional foul in a smaller sense. More often than not, it should be labeled "player control foul." The player got out of control, pretty simple.

RSBobcat
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RE: new rules a couple weeks in ..Nice article

Posted: 12/4/2013 12:26:48 AM

bornacatfan wrote:

ken pom blogs on the numbers and the new world being created

kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/our_brave_new_world

got to love the last paragraph

Good stuff. So - what came first? Setty's establishing his "position", or the shooters "motion to shoot"????

On another note - and the article made me think of this (especially the last paragraph) - a likely "intangible" - Coaches and ability to gain the "make up calls". Yeah - you know it is a skill, that MATTERS. Thinking man's game indeed! (Psychological, Political, Social)

RS Bobcat

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