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Topic: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Topic: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

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OUVan
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Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Posted: 1/8/2014 1:18:55 PM

Elton wrote:

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2014/01/point_guards_are_key_to_winnin.html

"Nobody wants to set the table anymore,'' said former MAC guard Cornelius Jackson, who played at Marshall. "(Point guards) put almost all their emphasis on scoring now, shooting from the perimeter."

Before OU's D.J. Cooper won MAC Player of the Year last season, no point guard had won the MAC award since DeAndre Haynes (Kent) in 2006. And it is safe to say Cooper, for all his dervish talents, was still more indicative of Jackson's definition of point guards today than in the past.

Sorry but that isn't safe to say at all. You don't reach top 15 in career assists by looking shot first.

Recovering Journalist
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RE: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Posted: 1/8/2014 1:43:36 PM

Some of his articles are so full of errors and poor arguments that he's almost more like an internet troll than a reporter. Ever since management decimated the PD staff, I guess we should just be happy that they have anyone doing anything with MAC sports, but he really just seems to wing it a lot of the time.

bornacatfan
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RE: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Posted: 1/8/2014 1:51:08 PM

OUVan wrote:

Elton wrote:

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2014/01/point_guards_are_key_to_winnin.html

"Nobody wants to set the table anymore,'' said former MAC guard Cornelius Jackson, who played at Marshall. "(Point guards) put almost all their emphasis on scoring now, shooting from the perimeter."

Before OU's D.J. Cooper won MAC Player of the Year last season, no point guard had won the MAC award since DeAndre Haynes (Kent) in 2006. And it is safe to say Cooper, for all his dervish talents, was still more indicative of Jackson's definition of point guards today than in the past.

Sorry but that isn't safe to say at all. You don't reach top 15 in career assists by looking shot first.

Sorry but I am on point with Cornelius. We played up tempo creating more shots. YOu can point to numbers all you want in the assist category but you can not ignore the fact that the same PG ALSO holds the record by a WIDE margin for shots attempted.

IMHO Nick would have far surpassed the 3 ball record and made it nigh on unreachable had he got the ball on a regular basis.... and I think we would have been a more complete team in the process.

Flame away but this team and program would have been way further along had there been more team and less I.....

My faovrite quote from a PG came in 2006 when Johnny Flynn was asked about his role at ABCD camp with guys like OJ Mayo, Eric Gordon , Kyle Singler, Kevin Love, Beasley, DerrickRose, Hoffaber et al ......hickoryhusker.rivals.com/content.asp

Syracuse commit Johnny Flynn is fine with that, as long as he can get his teammates involved and win games.

"Your obligation as a point guard is to get everybody the ball," Flynn said. "Everybody wants to eat. Everybody wants to score. It's a leadership quality to be able to run the offense and find open teammates and get them the ball. College coaches appreciate that, to have a point guard come in and pass the ball."

That is just my opinion and comes from close observation of dynamics from the day DJ stepped on this campus. He was and is a great ball player and I am not detracting from that. You have to pick your situation and with AB and DJ who were guys who could take us to another level....I have said it before and will say it again whenever it comes up. The real tribute to those teams since 2010 should be in acknowledging the fact that the other guys on those teams took on supporting roles and changed their games to fit the skill sets of the PG s that have been here. When that happened (including DJ taking a 2nd chair to AB) we were able to ride those performances.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

OUVan
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RE: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Posted: 1/8/2014 3:20:51 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Sorry but I am on point with Cornelius. We played up tempo creating more shots. YOu can point to numbers all you want in the assist category but you can not ignore the fact that the same PG ALSO holds the record by a WIDE margin for shots attempted.

IMHO Nick would have far surpassed the 3 ball record and made it nigh on unreachable had he got the ball on a regular basis.... and I think we would have been a more complete team in the process.

Flame away but this team and program would have been way further along had there been more team and less I.....

My faovrite quote from a PG came in 2006 when Johnny Flynn was asked about his role at ABCD camp with guys like OJ Mayo, Eric Gordon , Kyle Singler, Kevin Love, Beasley, DerrickRose, Hoffaber et al ......hickoryhusker.rivals.com/content.asp

Syracuse commit Johnny Flynn is fine with that, as long as he can get his teammates involved and win games.

"Your obligation as a point guard is to get everybody the ball," Flynn said. "Everybody wants to eat. Everybody wants to score. It's a leadership quality to be able to run the offense and find open teammates and get them the ball. College coaches appreciate that, to have a point guard come in and pass the ball."

That is just my opinion and comes from close observation of dynamics from the day DJ stepped on this campus. He was and is a great ball player and I am not detracting from that. You have to pick your situation and with AB and DJ who were guys who could take us to another level....I have said it before and will say it again whenever it comes up. The real tribute to those teams since 2010 should be in acknowledging the fact that the other guys on those teams took on supporting roles and changed their games to fit the skill sets of the PG s that have been here. When that happened (including DJ taking a 2nd chair to AB) we were able to ride those performances.

The object of the PG should not be to get everybody the ball. The object of the PG is to run the offense and create scoring opportunities. That can also include taking a shot yourself. When our offense stalled the last four years it was rarely because DJ was passing up open scorers to take shots on his own. It was because our scorers were standing still with their hands out. If I were looking for a perfect PG I would be looking for one that could score as well as facilitate. That was DJ. I know you don't like DJ but I think it clouds your judgement of his on the court play at times. And lest we forget, Nick wasn't exactly a better option shooting last year compared to DJ.

GoCats105
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RE: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Posted: 1/8/2014 3:20:53 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

OUVan wrote:

Elton wrote:

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2014/01/point_guards_are_key_to_winnin.html

"Nobody wants to set the table anymore,'' said former MAC guard Cornelius Jackson, who played at Marshall. "(Point guards) put almost all their emphasis on scoring now, shooting from the perimeter."

Before OU's D.J. Cooper won MAC Player of the Year last season, no point guard had won the MAC award since DeAndre Haynes (Kent) in 2006. And it is safe to say Cooper, for all his dervish talents, was still more indicative of Jackson's definition of point guards today than in the past.

Sorry but that isn't safe to say at all. You don't reach top 15 in career assists by looking shot first.

Sorry but I am on point with Cornelius. We played up tempo creating more shots. YOu can point to numbers all you want in the assist category but you can not ignore the fact that the same PG ALSO holds the record by a WIDE margin for shots attempted.

IMHO Nick would have far surpassed the 3 ball record and made it nigh on unreachable had he got the ball on a regular basis.... and I think we would have been a more complete team in the process.

Flame away but this team and program would have been way further along had there been more team and less I.....

My faovrite quote from a PG came in 2006 when Johnny Flynn was asked about his role at ABCD camp with guys like OJ Mayo, Eric Gordon , Kyle Singler, Kevin Love, Beasley, DerrickRose, Hoffaber et al ......hickoryhusker.rivals.com/content.asp

Syracuse commit Johnny Flynn is fine with that, as long as he can get his teammates involved and win games.

"Your obligation as a point guard is to get everybody the ball," Flynn said. "Everybody wants to eat. Everybody wants to score. It's a leadership quality to be able to run the offense and find open teammates and get them the ball. College coaches appreciate that, to have a point guard come in and pass the ball."

That is just my opinion and comes from close observation of dynamics from the day DJ stepped on this campus. He was and is a great ball player and I am not detracting from that. You have to pick your situation and with AB and DJ who were guys who could take us to another level....I have said it before and will say it again whenever it comes up. The real tribute to those teams since 2010 should be in acknowledging the fact that the other guys on those teams took on supporting roles and changed their games to fit the skill sets of the PG s that have been here. When that happened (including DJ taking a 2nd chair to AB) we were able to ride those performances.

There's a reason he shot such a poor percentage from three point land, too. I agree here.

What's funny is that his court vision was his greatest attribute and we saw many, many, many flashes of that brilliance time and time again. Think about how big his assist numbers are right now. Then think how many could have had, had he not taken so many three pointers. It's incredible.

Another interesting analysis would have been how many of threes were early in the shot clock.

Essentially, the PG position comes down to one thing: efficiency. You control the ball and make sure everybody is in the right position. You have to know what each player does on every play and where they're supposed to be and sometimes even where they aren't. NBA GMs can draft all the centers they want, give me a solid floor leader who knows who needs to get the ball and when. That's also the position a college team can NEVER do without. Wonder why Ohio basketball struggled before Groce arrived? Look at the PG position between the year Fears left and the year Groce was first hired.

Think about when you play pick up basketball. What's the one position nobody wants in a 5-on-5 game? Its the PG position. People hate bringing it up. They almost automatically run down to the other end of the floor and find their favorite spot to shoot a jumper. #1 you're not gonna see the ball much in an ordinary pickup game after you give it up. #2 you don't have a feel for what everyone else can do around you, so it's tougher to make a decision on who to pass to and when. #3 Pickup games rarely have someone who is basically automatic from three (unless that's all they did in HS), so defensively as soon as that PG makes a dribble drive toward the basket you can collapse and help and make him pass. Again, this is a normal pickup game where most people don't know each other save a few guys. I'm not saying all pickup games are like this, because I've played some very competitive ones with college and HS players who know how to cut, screen, roll, pop, etc.

DJ is an excellent PG and excellent basketball player. His teams were some of the most productive and most successful in Ohio history. So, kudos to him and thanks for the memories. However, I think about how much better it could have been. Coulda, woulda, shoulda, blah, blah, blah...

Last Edited: 1/8/2014 3:34:31 PM by GoCats105

bornacatfan
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RE: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Posted: 1/8/2014 6:50:25 PM

OUVan wrote:

. I know you don't like DJ but I think it clouds your judgement of his on the court play at times. .

A patently untrue myth propagated by folks on the internet who keep insisting it to be true.

There are a number of those thoughts out there by folks who put them forth regarding my relationships and thoughts. SOmeone thinking I do not want Nick to break the 3 point record was advanced the other night. I love Nick,encourage and congratulate him whenever and wherever I see him and hope he sets the record going away.

You know nothing of my personal relationship with DJ or his parents and I think supposition and assignment of my feelings is not really fair.

Since I was a youngster learning the game I have always maintained the same belief. If your PG is the show you lose. If your PG runs the show you win.

It may be right or wrong but it was what I was taught.

His on court habits has NOTHING to so with my relationship with him or personal feelings (both of which are good) / Not liking an action or habit does not mean you dislike the person...would not be many marriages left if that were the case.

I do so agree with you that many times last year no one was coming to help "score the ball" though I do believe Nick would have had a great deal more effectiveness would his teamie have had more faith in his abilities and got him the ball where he needed it (another PG trait I value). Shooters have a hard time shooting when the ball comes to them as a bail out or off a last second in the shot clock pass....

To make it plain and simple, if one of my friends or family did something great or poor it does not elevate or diminish my affinity for them....but I am going to give credit or critique in an honest, straightforward manner. I was watching and learning basketball long before I had a child and way before he/ I knew he was going to play.

I can guarantee you ask anyone of my Chicago area friends who spent time with me in my 20's they would tell you I have held and repeated those mantras over and over as we watched Illinois HS games and whenever we went to watch Depaul, loyola, illinois and Northwestern and their foes all through the 70's

I will thank you kindly not to put words in my mouth.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

perimeterpost
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RE: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Posted: 1/8/2014 9:28:29 PM

the team always seemed to play better when DJ could just sit back and dish and not worry about shooting.

What I don't know is how much of him taking shots was driven by ego/overconfidence or called by Groce, and how much of it was driven by other team mates not being more aggressive and calling for the ball/making shots.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

RSBobcat
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RE: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Posted: 1/8/2014 9:37:27 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

[QUOTE=OUVan]

I do so agree with you that many times last year no one was coming to help "score the ball" though I do believe Nick would have had a great deal more effectiveness would his teamie have had more faith in his abilities and got him the ball where he needed it (another PG trait I value). Shooters have a hard time shooting when the ball comes to them as a bail out or off a last second in the shot clock pass....

hammer meets nail

Nick was more often than not DJ's "last" option

RS Bobcat

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Does Elton Really Watch the Games?

Posted: 1/9/2014 12:44:36 AM

Agree with the thoughts about DJ: Great player but he didn't run our offense like a PG who was looking to get everyone involved. He seemed to survey the floor then pass if that was there...but mostly look to dribble penetrate with his own shot as the first (though not only) priority. I don't too often recall him moving guys around on the court--espec moving guys around on the court in ways that enhanced ball movement so that someone/anyone got a shot. Too many possessions coming down to the last few ticks on the clock, ending up with DJ taking it. The number of attempts record is strong statistical/factual evidence. I think that, bless him, DJ's approach made us less than our potential last year.

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