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Topic: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Topic: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

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bobcat695
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24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/16/2014 11:09:33 PM

Tonight, I was watching the UConn/Memphis game and Jay Bilas said he thought the college game would greatly benefit from reducing the shot clock to 24 seconds. I haven't really given it much thought in the past, but it is an interesting topic.

When I watch NBA games, it seems to be more isolation and one-on-one plays than the college game. I suppose it's because, as the shot clocks winds down, a play has to be made quickly. I know there are a lot more possessions in the NBA, but I'm not sure they are higher quality possessions.

On the other hand, college basketball teams average around 25 possessions/game less than NBA teams even though they only play 8 minutes less. It will create more scoring opportunities each game and speed up the game. I'm still not sure which side of the discussion I side with, but it is an intriguing conversation.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Jeff McKinney
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/16/2014 11:24:34 PM

I would not be in favor or reducing the shot clock.

I believe it would make offenses sloppier. More bad shots thrown up.

Chicken George
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/16/2014 11:36:16 PM

My knee jerk reaction, with little to no thought, is no--don't switch. First of all, there's little/nothing in the NBA game anyone wants to emulate--so guilt by association. Secondly, I think it would be bad for teams like Ohio, or mid-majors in general--especially versus the majors. The shorter shot clock would prioritize the importance of play makers who can create their own shots versus multiple offensive sets designed to create shots for players who may not necessarily be able to create them on their own at a more necessary rate if the shot clock was always running down. Outside of AB and possibly DJ, we haven't had a ton of those kind of guys at Ohio in recent memory, or the MAC in general. If you got frustrated at DJ's shot selection, imagine what it would've been like with a 24 sec shot clock? Typically those types of players with incredible individual talents flock to the larger conferences. Consider the NBA and think of the top teams? To be a top team in the NBA you typical must have a bona fide superstar. Guys who get one pass and they're instant offense. Typically MAC type teams that advance have systems, sets and a handful of above average players in a system that works for them. In the NBA, the teams in the finals are superstar led and not teams with above average players in a system. The only NBA teams in the upper tier I can think of that win through a system are the Spurs and Pacers. The rest rely on great individual playmakers. Finally, the shorter shot clock would take a lot of the beauty out of the game as well as a lot of the strategy. Fewer and shorter set players and a lot more 1-2 pass and shot. Goodbye Princeton offense or any other scheme that allows a less individually talented squad an opportunity to compete against a team of 5- star type players.

Just one opinion and I don't necessarily feel great about it--but I still say no.

Last Edited: 1/16/2014 11:37:50 PM by Chicken George

bornacatfan
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 12:13:12 AM

A fellow hoophead offered the following.

In the NBA almost every player can get their own shot. At the collegiate level only 1 or 2 players per team can get their own ....therefore you have to have a scheme and run plays to get guys better looks.

I am personally not in favor of tweaking something to appease ADD type fans who can not appreciate the beauty of the game preferring to see guys "beasting " on one another. The NBA game is not very enjoyable for me. Understanding schemes on both sides of the ball and creating mismatches is a chess game I really like.

Pretty sure the 24 sec clock would send me back to watching the game only at the HS level....which by the way is one of the biggest bargains in entertainment today....unless those same addlepated fans somehow take kids who are still learning the game and force them into using a shot clock at the HS level.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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Andrew Ruck
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 12:36:13 AM

I've always said I'd like to see an even 30. 24 is too short for the NBA game, but forcing the tempo a touch more could be a good things for the college game. High school 35, College 30, NBA 24. Not unlike the 3 point arc or game time.

Andrew Ruck
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Pataskala
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 7:03:31 AM

They shouldn't shorten the shot clock. But if they want to squeeze in a few more possessions, they should treat the first six fouls of each half like kicked ball situations. If a defensive player commits a non-shooting foul, don't reset the clock if there's more than 15 seconds left to shoot, but reset it to 15 if there's less than 15.

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Jeff McKinney
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 11:03:26 AM

I agree with Chicken George and bornacat on this.

Casper71
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 11:14:05 AM

I guess I am in the minority. I would not mind if they shortened the clock. I hate to see a team play fantastic defense for 20-25 seconds only to look up and see that there are 10-15 more seconds for the offense to get a shot off. Besides, how many 35 second shot clock violations are there in college...very very few per game? I think 24 is too short so I would go for 30.

Mike Johnson
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 11:24:11 AM

I don't favor reducing to 24. But 30?

Women college basketballers have been using 30. Why is that?

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UpSan Bobcat
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 11:29:05 AM

Mike Johnson wrote:

I don't favor reducing to 24. But 30?

Women college basketballers have been using 30. Why is that?

I think it's probably in an effort to produce higher-scoring games, which most people tend to find more entertaining.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 12:18:57 PM

I think 35 seconds is fine, but it's not because of any distaste I have for the NBA. I love both college and NBA styles for what they are. I just think we'd see a bad 3-pointer jacked up nearly every possession in college basketball.

OUVan
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 3:35:49 PM

I hate the 24 second clock with a passion. The more possessions you have in a basketball game the less important each and every one becomes. I never find myself on the edge of my seat early in an NBA game.

bornacatfan
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 8:54:01 PM

went to a HS game tonite and watched a very disciplined Wapehani team with a pretty good Wright State recruit playint.

Lots of good ball movement with fundamental passing and cuts. Took time to talk to coach afterward and commend him on the skill and discipline his team exhibited in the face of a pretty tenacious defense. Talked to him about the shot clock concept. ....his take was that folks who are espousing a shot clock for HS don;t go to too many games or understand the game very well....then he added that "the game at this level is for the kids ...teaching them skills and lessons that will carry them through life....it's not about appeasing the fans"

Interesting take.

I think he might be right on that . I think the shot clock for all star games and showcases makes sense....not so much for regular season till you can openly recruit kids who fit your particular system. As long as you have tryouts and cuts and have to work with waht shows up each year the shot clock does not make much sense IMHO. THrow in the expense of outfitting every gym and training shot clock operators (like we don;t have enough trouble at the collegiate level) and it makes less sense.

When folks get out to a few more HS games, have a better background and more experience with the HS game as it is currently played, I will begin to listen to them and have an informed debate. A fair amount of folks I have talked to recently about the shot clock in HS games have not been to a game in a half decade or more.

Donuts
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 9:29:18 PM

No one is really talking about the HS game here though.

College basketball has finally been cleaned up a bit, so I think logically the next step would be to reduce the shot clock. People who claim the NBA is is not real basketball, they don't run plays, they don't run an offense, etc. are so far off base it's comical.

The college game should be different than the NBA game, because comparatively speaking, college players aren't that great. Running a decent offense in 24 seconds would be a mess, even though it would make it universal for NBA/FIBA/NCAA. The 30 second clock seems like a good sweet spot.

I would like to see them move to 10 minute quarters, ELIMINATE ALL LIVE BALL TIMEOUTS (aka bailouts), get rid of the possession arrow and do something different with the fouls. The last one might be a little far fetched, but making every foul after five for a player worth two shots and the ball instead of fouling out would involve some different strategy. A star getting two fouls (most often, with one being a bad call) and then getting banished to the bench for the rest of the half is not fun.

RSBobcat
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 9:33:39 PM

Donuts wrote:

Have to say I like a lot of these suggestions - for NCAA

RS Bobcat

LoganElm_grad09
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 9:59:27 PM

The NCAA made it clear that they wanted higher scoring games with the rule changes before the season. I see no reason that the shot clock stays at 35. I think that 30 is a good number if the powers to be deem it necessary, but I really don't want a 24 second clock.

bobcat695
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/17/2014 10:25:04 PM

Not to be a smartass, but where is there any difference between four 10 minute quarters and two 20 minute halves? One additional change of possession each half is the only thing I can think of.

I did go to my 5th high school game of the season tonight. (I'd go to more, but I am stuck watching a lot of junior high and elementary games right now.) I watched the game tonight with more attention to the average length of each possession. Neither team was very good. One had low skills, and another has a complete lack of discipline. From what I could guess, they averaged around 0:30 per possession. The game had decent flow and the final was 62-50, which is about average for a 32 minute high school game. The only time in the game I wished there was a shot clock was the last 2:30 with the team with a 6 point lead started to stall. They didn't quite go 4 Corners Carolina, but it was close. The game was too close at that point for me to want to watch must-foul basketball that early. I don't think a shot clock is logical for high school for a lot of the reasons mentioned already.

Maybe I'm just conditioned to prefer the college game because I watch 25 college games for every 1 NBA game. I agree with a lot of the points made about each possession being more valuable. I also like the strategy and commitment to the system in order for either offense or defense to be successful. I think the shot clock will eventually be reduced, but 30 seconds seems like the most logical number.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Donuts
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/18/2014 12:52:57 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

Not to be a smartass, but where is there any difference between four 10 minute quarters and two 20 minute halves? One additional change of possession each half is the only thing I can think of.

Quarters would allow more natural timeouts/commercials and would line up with the international game a bit more. No other level of play uses halves.

ts1227
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RE: 24 second shot clock vs 35 second shot clock

Posted: 1/18/2014 4:06:22 PM

Donuts wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

Not to be a smartass, but where is there any difference between four 10 minute quarters and two 20 minute halves? One additional change of possession each half is the only thing I can think of.

Quarters would allow more natural timeouts/commercials and would line up with the international game a bit more. No other level of play uses halves.

30 second shot clock and a switch to quarters would both be changes for the better, I think.

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