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Topic: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Topic: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

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FlashGary
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Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/5/2016 11:21:20 PM

With the season having played out, I can't remember a time in the MAC, and I go back to 1971-72, where it really could be up for debate between two players on the same team splitting the MAC MVP and Ohio MVP awards. During the first half of the season, Ohio went as Tony Campbell went. When Tony stayed out of foul trouble and played well, Ohio usually won. When Tony Campbell didn't fare well, neither did Ohio. Then over the second half of the season, the offense usually bogged down whenever Jaaron Simmons sat down. It didn't seem to matter that Tony was on the court; the offense really struggled. I can't remember a season in which I've seen a lead guard play all 40 minutes as often as Jaaron has this season. It's absolutely incredible that he was able to maintain his strength, stamina, focus and mental toughness with other teams running two and three point guards at him during the game. I don't think Saul Phillips leaned on him that much because he wanted to, but out of necessity. So I can see Tony Campbell being the MVP of the MAC; his numbers and his dominance are worthy of that. But I also think that Jaaron was Ohio's MVP, because without him being on the court as long as he was....need I finish the sentence? Interested to hear how Bobcat Nation feels about this...This aspect is my biggest concern for the MAC tournament, whether Jaaron can hold up, especially in the final minutes of a close game, if he has to play huge minutes hopefully for three straight nights. I haven't seen much about bringing in another point guard to back up Jaaron next season, when I would expect the non-conference schedule will be bulked up as Ohio has a veteran team hopefully ready to do some damage. I just can't envision Jaaron playing nearly as many minutes next season. Maybe a two-year player (junior college) is the way to go. This isn't a knock on Jordan Dartis at all. Jordan is what he is; looks like he has the makings of a terrific wing guard. And maybe he can keep the offense in gear as the backup point next season. Whatever coach Phillips decides to do, this could prove to be a pivotal decision.

FearLeon
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 6:23:08 AM

FlashGary wrote:

FlashGary is dead on here. Just to confirm...we only have 1 scholarship available to use in Spring? And if somebody does transfer that would free up another one....right? And I know nothing about anyone transferring, but you just never know. Seems to me a JUCO PG makes sense. We have to have a backup PG we can trust to put on the court for 8-10 minutes next year.

Last Edited: 3/6/2016 6:24:31 AM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

OUVan
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 7:08:01 AM

I'd rather see us go for a four-year guy. A JUCO guy will be the same class as Jaaron. Bring in a good freshman PG and let him apprentice for a couple of seasons.

bornacatfan
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 9:46:20 AM

OUVan wrote:

I'd rather see us go for a four-year guy. A JUCO guy will be the same class as Jaaron. Bring in a good freshman PG and let him apprentice for a couple of seasons.

I'm with Van ...give him the reigns for 8 to 10 with the understanding he will be running the show. Balance the classes and groom the future. Problem is that it is a b it late in the game for next year to find the guy who will be running your show in a few years.

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perimeterpost
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 11:20:35 AM

Here's the breakdown of scholarship players next year by class-

3 SR- Campbell, Kaminski, Mompremier
3 JR- Simmons, Laster, Harley
4 SO- Dartis, Block, Taylor, Gollon
2 FR- Dozier, Carter

Ideally a true freshman would be the best option for PG backup but there doesn't appear to be one on deck, what are the chances of a Sr transfer coming in for 1 season? Did the rules change or can graduate transfers still play immediately?

Otherwise I think the answer is Gollon. We need him to spend the next 7-8 months working harder than he's ever worked before to become a serviceable ball handler and on-ball defender.

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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 12:37:45 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

The rule still exists, but I feel like players usually use this rule to find a program where they will get more playing time. We really only have 8-10 minutes per game to give.

TWT
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 12:52:57 PM

POTY and COTY with NCAA or NIT will give Saul mo' on the recruiting trail. A good group of players now but a couple more to be an NCAA at-large sort of team.

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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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TWT
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 1:00:58 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

OUVan wrote:

I'd rather see us go for a four-year guy. A JUCO guy will be the same class as Jaaron. Bring in a good freshman PG and let him apprentice for a couple of seasons.

Might want to go with defensive addition in the short term for an NCAA run since its such an offensive oriented team. A player that can come in 8-10 minutes and help on the glass.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 1:19:41 PM

More than 8-10 minutes are available if guys are worthy.

(I'm taking that 8-10 to mean in total for all positions, not 8-10 at each of several spots.)

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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 1:39:25 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

More than 8-10 minutes are available if guys are worthy.

(I'm taking that 8-10 to mean in total for all positions, not 8-10 at each of several spots.)

Very true. If we go for someone capable of playing the two guard as well we could run some three-guard lineups and get the transfer more playing time.

bobcatsquared
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 1:49:52 PM

FearLeon wrote:

And I know nothing about anyone transferring, but you just never know.

Like FearLeon, I know of no one on the team planning on transferring. However, if one does due to lack of playing time (or any reason), I hope they make this decision known ASAP so Saul and staff can have as much time as possible to find another recruit. Better yet, the player and Saul have already had that discussion and Saul knows who's coming back and how many scholarships he has for next year.

Most fans are calling for a pg or combo guard and I don't disagree. Looking at the junior class (senior class next year), however, we will lose Campbell, Mompremier and KK (unless the NCAA grants him another year). The front court is an area that the next recruiting class or two will have to address as well.

Last Edited: 3/6/2016 1:50:40 PM by bobcatsquared

The Optimist
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 2:03:59 PM

I understand the push to focus on another PG in recruiting, but I want the best player available no matter the position. As it stands now, in my amateur opinion, it looks like that player is another wing... Desmond BANE. That kid can play.

I've seen crazier things happen.

bornacatfan
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 2:59:28 PM

The Optimist wrote:

Fixed that for ya....he will drive folks crazy on the other end. Matador missing even the cape and sword

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 4:13:00 PM

Who's going to take Treg's spot...do the things that Treg does?

Plus, we need more rebounding help.

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 6:15:24 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Who's going to take Treg's spot...do the things that Treg does?

Plus, we need more rebounding help.

We already signed him: http://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPa...

FlashGary
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 6:43:05 PM

Bringing in a freshman point guard would be ideal, but you have to weigh the quality of player you'll get to come into the program now, knowing he'll sit behind Jaaron Simmons for two seasons, as opposed to playing behind him for one season if we bring a guy into the 2017 class. This is just a reality of mid-major hoops. Really good players may be willing to play limited minutes for two seasons at a power conference school, but I believe the mindset is different when it comes to mid majors; that quality of player will go to a mid major where he can get some serious run as a freshman. Here's something else to ponder: how many "combo" high school guards can you remember who functioned well at the point in college? For instance, for us, did Stevie Taylor, Nick Kellogg and Bean Willis significantly improve their point guard skills or did they all function much better as shooting guards? From what we've seen of them thus far, I envision Jordan Dartis and James Gollon as shooters, as neither has the look of a penetrate and dish guard. And that's not a crime. Different players have different skill sets. You want your players comfortable and confident on the court. So I'd rather bring in a player who fits the role.

I believe that you don't train players to be lead guards; they're either wired that way or they're not. Think about the first time you saw the likes of Simmons and DJ Cooper. They both had the "it" factor that quality point guards have. So I encourage Bobcat rooters to understand and enjoy what we have in Simmons, because the skill set he possesses, even as a sophomore, doesn't come around the block at mid major schools very often. Jaaron gives Saul Phillips and the offense an incredible comfort in knowing they can probe a defense and look for a quality scoring opportunity, not overly concerned about the shot clock, because Simmons can take anyone off the dribble and get to the rim practically at will when the clock is running down. This is where I believe sitting out the transfer year helped him. It gave him an additional season to get stronger, which DJ Cooper didn't have (remember how DJ got bounced around like a beach ball early in his career. Then by the time DJ was a junior, he was getting the "and one" on a regular basis.) We've got a special guard here in Jaaron and I believe we'll get the maximum efficiency out of him by playing him fewer minutes as his career progresses. This is why I'm leaning in the direction of a pure junior college lead guard who could play 10-12 minutes right away, or a grad student, as suggested on another post.

FearLeon
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 6:59:44 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

The Optimist wrote:

Fixed that for ya....he will drive folks crazy on the other end. Matador missing even the cape and sword

Born...based on some of the other intangible things you noticed about Bane (solid pre-game behavior), does it give you any confidence that he has the willingness to learn and improve on the other end? I was also impressed with his interview after the game. I'm starting to think he's a good fit and not because of one dunk.

Also...only 19 posts from FlashGary? Post more dude.

Last Edited: 3/6/2016 7:08:32 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

The Optimist
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 7:41:41 PM

FearLeon wrote:

bornacatfan wrote:

The Optimist wrote:

Fixed that for ya....he will drive folks crazy on the other end. Matador missing even the cape and sword

It seems like a lot of guys on our current roster are slanted toward the offensive end... Bane would fit in well!

Seriously though, dunk aside, he seems like a guy who would really be a terror in the MAC.

I am concerned about depth at PG next year... Dartis, while having a great freshman campaign, doesn't seem to be a point. Watching Gollon struggle @Kent was frustrating, but he is the guy in this class I'd pencil in as the potential PG. I'm hopeful he can make a big jump in the offseason. I think the potential is there.

Last Edited: 3/6/2016 7:45:26 PM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

lovebobcat
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 8:36:08 PM

Regarding Jaaron, isn't there concern that he will complete his degree after next season and thus be eligible to transfer and (without sitting out) play his final season of eligibility somewhere big-time? And the same scenario for KK if he's granted a fourth season of eligibility?

I think Jaaron would have a lot of power conferences hungry for his services for his final season. And Saul probably needs to be thinking about that possibility as he recruits future point guards.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 9:53:17 PM

Jaaron Simmons OOC games - 14.5 pts, 7.8 assists, 5.3 turnovers per game
Jaaron Simmons MAC games - 15.7 pts, 7.6 assists, 3.1 turnovers per game

This guy has been improving his game, the sky is the limit. I think he'll have his own MAC POTY before he is done.

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perimeterpost
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 10:59:48 PM

lovebobcat wrote:

I'm more concerned about what I'm going to wear to the Oscars next year than I am about the possibility of JS and KK transferring.

Last Edited: 3/6/2016 11:00:29 PM by perimeterpost

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bornacatfan
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/6/2016 11:41:13 PM

FearLeon wrote:

I like him and I think he really meshes with the current Saulball gang. I am really taken by his offensive skills. Reminds me of Dominic James. I do think he is going to be a defensive project...some of our guys only played zones from the time they were young uns in AAU....difference being they still were taught principles ...Block is a good example coming from a zone oriented but fundamentally sound program that demanded excellence and got results at the state finals level. OTOH Des is in a small school program and does not see the comp Dominic James or Block saw every night. When you look at our current frosh who played big school ball and who played small?

Newark and Lincoln are comparable D2 programs

Stevens Pt was a small D4 comparable program.

I think you can see where my thoughts regarding this matter lie. I think there is a huge upside and the skill is there as well as the athletic ability. I like the kid and his attitude. I just know how kids get built up and then the fanbase loses their mind and comes down on them when their weakness' cost a possession. Just reporting what I see...positives and negs.

FearLeon
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/7/2016 5:52:26 AM

bornacatfan wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

No better scout....good stuff. Will be interesting to see what happens here.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

Taiwan BC
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/7/2016 8:19:03 AM

Not to sidetrack the thread but, yeah, Borna definitely nailed it with his call that players that face higher levels of competition in high school (Block Dartis and to a lesser extent, Taylor) are much more "ready" for the college game. I would be curious to know where he would place Jason Carter and Johnstown's level of competition...

And I am happy to think we could be having this same conversation next year with Campbell and Simmons...

OU_Country
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RE: Is the MAC MVP and Ohio's MVP two different Ohio players?

Posted: 3/7/2016 12:16:39 PM

I've been talking about the need for the additional guard with next year's last scholly for awhile, but I hadn't honestly considered the JUCO/Transfer approach. That is mainly because Saul has stated he prefers not to have too many players like that. I just assumed he wasn't likely to go that route, and figured it was a waste of time to consider it.

That said, I like FlashGary's approach here. If you look at the way this team is set up, next year is set to be a nice season. It might be good to get a more veteran player. This could be especially true if the situation arose that a player transferred out for some reason.

Something I'll add into the discussion is that I recall in the last week hearing Saul say something about addressing the need for that guard, or a defensive player (can't recall exactly how it was phrased) in the upcoming recruiting class. This was in the post game or pre-game with Russ. I'm thinking it was during the Miami game broadcast.

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