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Ohio Basketball

Topic: Terrible.

Topic: Terrible.

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Bobcatzblitz
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Member Since: 7/21/2010
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Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 6:08:13 PM

How many dunks did Ohio give up today 7-8 so far and the game is not over. Only player I see that is playing a little inspired seems to be Big Tone and thats sad. Seems like we are still waiting for Saul Ball and he hasnt shown up.

Cbus Convo
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Location: Upper Arlington, OH
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 6:16:28 PM

It appears as though some folks on this board owe Elton Alexander an apology...

Bobcatzblitz
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 6:22:41 PM

I missed that one but regardless of talent I just dont see the effort out there from everyone. Maybe we as Ohio Basketball fans became spoiled by the success of prior years. Saul is a great guy and it is hard to give an honest assessment because we all really do like the guy. But lets ask ourselves an honest question are we better off or worse than when Jim Christian left.

71 BOBCAT
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 6:35:32 PM

At this point in the Saul era I would say we would be better off if JC was still here. Why, 1st of all we would not have lost his 4 recruits, second is he knows the MAC, and 3rd he's played better competition through out his career. Having said this I was not a fan of JC from the beginning. I would have preferred Jeff Boals.

GO BOBCATS

Bobcatzblitz
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 6:46:06 PM

Getting a big time recruit or two at this point would not hurt this coaching staff. This next class will be crucial for the future of Ohio Basketball.

PG73
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Member Since: 3/4/2007
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 6:47:18 PM

That's what you get when you don't play defense. Can't figure out if we don't know how or just don't care. Where the hell is weak side help on all those pick and rolls? Too many people out of position.

bornacatfan
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Member Since: 8/3/2006
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 7:22:00 PM

Bobcatzblitz wrote:

Honest question.....really? ON it's surface are we better or worse implying we would be better if we had kept him or are we just plain better or worse?

If he had stayed would we be better right now?

Since he did not should we have hired a more seasoned coach? A bigger name? More money? What exactly do you expect...it's not 2012 and a veteran squad out there.... we had that in 2013 and lost early in the NIT.

What should we expect even we had the next big name? Shaka Smart, JG returning (hah no one liked his in conference performance till 2012 either), Chris Holtmann or anyone else...what would your expectations be....

I saw a faithful BA er's wife just throw up on Facebook that she "officially misses Jim Christian" ....amazing. Missing JC is an emotion I just do not comprehend. Speechless.

So it remains....I have spent months looking at a larger and more volatile, more bipolar Illini fanbase throw out the same arguments tinted with their supposed blue blood status on the heels of months of Butler dissing hiring and loser like Holtmann as an assistant. Every fanbase thinks they are overpaying their coach and he is embarrassing them and their school. Jeepers, let him get his players and system in place.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

Danny's Knee
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Member Since: 11/30/2005
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 7:35:21 PM

I agree with the Doctor .. Ohio is not there yet, but for crying out loud !!

we have a man here in Athens that's wants to build a program and be here in Athens. NOT tim o'shea or jim christian who want to get back where they belong as quickly as possible ..

we as fans want this NOW !! .. as this team grows they will be solid at tournament time

Dartis and Block will get better , kenny will find his groove and Jaaron and Big Tone will continue to play well and get better ..

The bobcats only lose Setty after this season .. come on folks !!

BANG !! .. Oh baby what BIG TIME impatient negativity !!

check out my avatar, it's "REALLY DO ORIGINAL" !!!!

bobcatsquared
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 8:11:54 PM

Danny's Knee wrote:

kenny will find his groove

I've been a believer of this since the beginning of the season and a defender of KK to anyone who'd listen. However, I'm slowly beginning to believe that what we're seeing from KK is what we're going to get from him this season and next. Hope I'm wrong and that the original optimist in me proves accurate.

Roasting Joe
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 8:39:27 PM

We looked great the first 10 minutes on both sides of the ball, then we started missing shots. if you look at a shot chart we missed a ton in the paint. not sure if we were fouled and nothing called or if we just threw it up hoping for a foul. We only got to the line 12 times, should be getting twice as many and 3-16 on threes won't win many games. Just a bad road game, don't lose faith yet!

Last Edited: 1/23/2016 8:46:26 PM by Roasting Joe

bornacatfan
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 9:04:41 PM

I thought we really moved the ball and passed the first 10 minutes. Swing from side to side, ball reversal and penetrate . WHen they got away from that and started wasting possessions with quick shots and minimal passes before the shot the game went in the turlet. Once the offensive side broke down the Chips got into the transition game and our D was behind as the floor got unbalanced in a hurry. Lots of run outs and primary attacks down the lane before we got back and set.

No one can make players do things....you can yell, scream, plead and cajole but when their brains check out you are not reeling them back in.

Last Edited: 1/23/2016 9:06:51 PM by bornacatfan

bornacatfan
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 9:38:16 PM

hahahahah

I guess my reply up there about Holtmann was a little early......this Butler fan may send him back our way. Special thanks to our Mods for not letting our board read page after page of this trash.

-------------

Originally Posted by willisbrown View Post
I want Miller back.
There's nothing to do now. The season is over and has been a waste. We were (and very much deservedly) so excited for this talent and this team. And all we got was crap. Holtmann is not who we thought he was, hell not even close. The lack of depth has killed us when there are able bodied guys who just haven't developed for ****. Hmmmmmm. We drank Holtmann's bull**** way too quickly. He's not made for this. He caught lightening in a bottle last year, but that's all it was. From the game against ND in the tourney until now, name me anything anyone of you have seen on the floor that you like? I can answer that for you, nothing.

This season is over. It's time to start hoping that this big recruiting class next season can turn this ship around. Because, it's a sinking one right now. What a ****ing joke.

cbus cat fan
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 10:03:22 PM

I didn't see the game with my own eyes, so I can't give a real in depth assessment. However as I have said before, team chemistry and psychology are two of the most under appreciated aspects of the game. I thought I knew a lot about x's and o's until I coached high school basketball and realized lots of people know about x's and o's; the real good ones know how to motivate, strong arm-sweet talk, cajole etc players.

There are several questions that need to be answered, not the least of which concerns team chemistry, talent, the psychological make up of the team, and leadership. We certainly have the talent, but what about the leadership? Is Jaaron Simmons a leader? Which Line up works the best? What is Coach Phillips opinion on this matter? Does he know and does he have a set system already in place, or is he flexible?

I am not a fan of coach bashing, especially since we have been blessed with far more good than bad. Coach Danny Nee was in his third year when I came to Athens as a freshman, so I can only judge the history of Bobcat basketball coaches from what I have seen in person. I think we were fortunate to have Coach Nee, Coach Hunter, Coach Groce and Coach Christian. I believe Coach Hahn and Coach O' Shea were not cut out for Division I coaching and I believe that was apparent early on. Most MAC schools would be more than a little envious to have had our talent, both player and coach in the last 35 years.

I go back to leadership, the psychological make up of our team and what Coach Phillips preconceived ideas are (if any) to determine why we end up with results like tonight. This result isn't that uncommon for a team finding it's way. However, any successful team has to know where it is going. The question is who on our current team wants to lead, and what line up combination will get us to where we need to go?

Last Edited: 1/23/2016 10:06:16 PM by cbus cat fan

giacomo
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 10:32:18 PM

Please don't say we lacked effort. That seems to be the pat response every time a team loses. I know most posters did not play college athletics. But most played little league or in some fashion. Do you remember when you had a game? It was the highlight of your life and you gave it your best. Multiply that by any number you like and that is what these guys put out there.

GraffZ06
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Location: Dayton, OH
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/23/2016 11:04:05 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

No one can make players do things....you can yell, scream, plead and cajole but when their brains check out you are not reeling them back in.

True statement but if that's what's going on then it's even more damning for the coaching staff. Unlike HS ball, they hand picked each and every one of these guys to come play here. If they didn't do their homework and understand the mental toughness/make-up of the guys, whether they are willing to listen/work vs. tune-out/give up, or didn't care then we're REALLY doomed. That's on the coaching staff as much as it is the players IMO.

I'll add that I like Saul the person. Seems like a great guy. He's probably a good coach too but I haven't been impressed by the quality of play to date. He's 0 for 2. How many YEARS do we give him to "get his guys" and "implement his system"? I'm not saying we need to make a move. I'm just saying there's not a lot to instill confidence or be excited about. Part of that is I don't think he has the horses to do it yet, but recruiting is a big part of being successful. To say I've been underwhelmed by his recruiting so far is a huge understatement, and it's not getting better next year with only 1 guy coming in either.

Steve
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 4:50:16 AM

I got a headache as soon as I got to the part about how we'd be better off if Christian was still here.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 8:58:05 AM

So much for the adage that used to be tossed around here of getting 3-5 years. Some of your are definitely in the right here right now generation.

Bobcat1998
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Member Since: 11/7/2012
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 9:45:36 AM

We just can't seem to get everyone on the same page on the same day. If someone is great, one of the guys who has to be great isn't. I feel like Jaaron, Tony and Kenny have to be great or at least very good every game. Players like Jimmy Hall, Chris Fowler and Tucker Haymond seem to produce every game. If they're not scoring they're doing other things. One rebound for Kenny at 6-8 is unacceptable. Jaaron going 2 for 11 from the field is unacceptable. Tony having subpar outings with foul trouble earlier in the year is unacceptable. When we were good with Groce D.J. and Walt found ways to be great while Ivo, Reg and Nick would pick up game by game. Darty, Block and Treg can step up as needed but our big 3 need to elevate their games for us to be anything more than a sub-500 team in the MAC which, whether some of you are saying we should be fully supportive and positive, still sucks.

bornacatfan
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 9:50:28 AM

First glance at the CHips roster had 10 upperclassmen and 2 RS Sophs.

KenPom says we are the 287th most experienced team in the NCAA.

2 years in and a late add in the coaching cycle Saul really did not get much in his first class. Dartis/Block are gonna be fine. Don't know much about Dozier and Gollon is a quantity yet to be determined. I remember guys saying TOmmy and Devaughn were unknowns and unranked and Mo Pearson/Steve Coleman was going to be a stud.

I have always been a fan of JG's swing for the fences and recruitment style but I am willing to see what Saul does with his recruits given that Wisky fans chastised Bo for recruiting a lowly Frank Kaminsky to their program. There are things that are happening that I am not sure of but I have been around hoops long enough to give Groce , Holtmann, Saul and others a chance. While the natives seem to think it is as easy as plugging in a new face and he magically has recruits and a program I know what it takes to build a program and get guys to it. I want for the changes that took place in 08 to continue on....I know it is a process

Last Edited: 1/24/2016 9:51:26 AM by bornacatfan

OUVan
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 10:19:22 AM

Cbus Convo wrote:

It appears as though some folks on this board owe Elton Alexander an apology...

Hah, really? Three of his top 5 "eye-test" teams aren't over .500. His #1 team is 5th in the West. The teams he picked to finish 11th and 12th are a combined 7-5. Don't hold your breath waiting on that apology.

71 BOBCAT
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 10:21:54 AM

As I watched this game, particularly in the 2nd half, the camera would focus on several players after missed shots and it was apparent by their facial expression that they were not pleased, frustrated, and disappointed.
I am thinking that we are just not mentally tuff enough as a team. We're soft and the other teams know it. Get a good lead on the Bobcats and know that the game is in hand.

GO BOBCATS

OUVan
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 10:31:09 AM

I hope the first order of business at practice today is how to defend the pick and roll. Tony did a good job stopping penetration but nobody stepped up to help him when he switched off. Overall I thought we did a much better job on the half court defense except as noted above. But as others have pointed out we just stopped making the extra pass and started settling for tough shots.

Recovering Journalist
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 10:46:59 AM

Yesterday was terrible, but it's ridiculous to use it as an indictment of Saul or the program. The residue of three coaching changes is real, and it's not just an excuse. After all the turnover, we're in a position where we have to get a lot of meaningful quality minutes from freshmen and sophomores. Kaminski and Simmons are transitioning from limited roles at their prior schools to limelight roles here. Kids who dominated in high school are still learning the ropes and getting their first college minutes. None of that development is going to happen without ugly bumps in the road. We're not Duke. Our freshman aren't one-and-done superstars. Some of the impatience here is insane.

All that said, I understand (and participate in) some of the complaining. Part of the reason this team can be so frustrating is that there are so many flashes of brilliance. You can see talent and potential everywhere. If you're not excited about Block and Dartis as freshmen, you haven't been watching. Tony's brilliant when he stays out of foul trouble. Simmons is among the national leaders in assists. There are pieces there -- That's why it's maddening to see how poorly they have responded to the slightest whiff of adversity in games this season. Many of the losses this year have been competitive until a single run by the opposition makes the wheels fall off. We all know that runs happen in basketball, but this team doesn't take the punch. The ball stops moving on offense and the feet stop moving on defense. I'm inclined to ascribe it to youth, but it's not fun to watch at all and that excuse only goes so far.

Pataskala
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 10:47:39 AM

There didn't seem to be a lot of communication on D yesterday. Several times all three bigs moved up to the foul line, leaving the underneath wide open for easy buckets.

Yesterday showed what we can expect from a team that doesn't play D well. You can use offense to compensate for bad D only so much. The offense will sometimes have cold days and when it does there will be games like yesterday.

And, no, I wouldn't rather have JC. There seemed to be a lot of back-biting and lack of cohesion while he was at Ohio. I think he's more a critic than a teacher with his players.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

cbus cat fan
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RE: Terrible.

Posted: 1/24/2016 11:11:35 AM

I keep talking psychology, leadership and the right lineup at the right time of the game for a reason. I am sure none of this is a mystery to the team or coaching staff either. The funny thing about winning is that it solves many things. I would rather lose early and win later in the season than vice versa.

I am an optimist by nature. We certainly have the talent to win; once the first sentence of my post is understood by the players and the coaching staff, we could well be on our way to a successful season.

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