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Topic:  Transfer vs. Release

Topic:  Transfer vs. Release
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 6:52:07 AM 
There was an article in the paper out here yesterday that named three OSU freshmen that were transferring.

There's an article today that named the same players and said they were granted their "release" from Mata.

Could some one explain exactly what that means ?

Last Edited: 3/31/2016 7:19:26 AM by rpbobcat
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 7:24:07 AM 
Ahh, one of the hottest topics in college sports right now. Coaches essentially have to grant the player permission to transfer to another school, which IMO is crap because a coach never asks permission to leave for a better job. So when a player wants to transfer, his coach can step in and say "hold on a second, if you do this, you can't go here, here, here, here or here."

Bo Ryan was a major figure recently under scrutiny for not granting a player his transfer.

In this particular case, Matta looks to be one of the coaches who says "if you want to transfer, go ahead" and granted them their release.

Last Edited: 3/31/2016 7:25:06 AM by GoCats105
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 7:24:58 AM 


To get a release from the National Letter of Intent, you must use the release form on the NLI website. After you fill out your section of the form, you send a copy of the form to two places: your school’s athletic department offices and to the NLI offices at the NCAA Eligibility Center. Once you send the form, the athletic department must respond within 30 days. There are three options for them to respond:

No release – This means you are not released from the NLI and all of its provisions are still in effect.
Complete release – This means you are released from all of the NLI’s provisions.
Removal of the recruiting ban – This means the recruiting ban is lifted, but the NLI penalty is still in effect if you do not fulfill the NLI.


NLI releases cannot be school-specific, like permission to contact. So you cannot be released to one school but not another. Because of this, many schools will first remove the recruiting ban, but may not grant a complete release until the school knows where an athlete plans to transfer.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 11:11:42 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Ahh, one of the hottest topics in college sports right now. Coaches essentially have to grant the player permission to transfer to another school, which IMO is crap because a coach never asks permission to leave for a better job.


+1 - Total bullsh&t.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 12:42:17 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Ahh, one of the hottest topics in college sports right now. Coaches essentially have to grant the player permission to transfer to another school, which IMO is crap because a coach never asks permission to leave for a better job.


+1 - Total bullsh&t.



What is missing here is that players are told they are signing with an institution. They are not signing with a coach.

One of the best conversations I have ever heard was when Zach Hahn was sitting on a Butler scholly and was angling for a bigger offer. His HS coach told him "zach, you got to be comfortable with the school. You have taken the visit and you liked Butler. When your GF breaks up with you, your shot is not falling, your statistics class is kicking your butt and your coach just left for another job you have to like where you are" Steve, over the years had many athletes go on to D1 offers. He always told them they are getting a degree NOT playing for a coach.

I always try to tell kids what they are getting into. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PLAY FOR A COACH...they are going to play for a school. They are not going to play basketball...that is the tool to pay for their education. Buying into the coach argument is putting the cart before the horse IMHO.

We went through a coaching change. Tommy called me on July 3 after helping Rhodes and Ku clean out their office well into the night before a mid term in the summer. Despite the assertions of one of our more senior BA members there was no thought of leaving as he had signed with a school NOT a coach. Anyone who supports the glut of transfers for a variety of reasons is hampering the educational process IMHO. Outside of hoops the idea is for kids of skill and talent to use that to get an education. Like My son that graduated from University of the Arts in Philly or the other who graduated Herron Art School ....they all used their talents to pay for their education.

In essence we have to do a better job of getting kids into schools and programs that fit their skills and their long term goals. Taking a scholly at Indiana if you want an engineering degree is ludicrous. This, of course leaves out the students who are not really going to school to get a degree but are using it as a minor league to the NBA...but then they are not REALLY students, are they?

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 1:41:29 PM 
I agree with Bornacat here in the approach that should be taken. Nothing wrong with a kid transferring for whatever reasons they choose to leave, but PT after the freshman year really shouldn't be the reason why IMO. I guess I've never viewed the process as unfair. Coaches leave, and players can choose to as well.





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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 2:32:44 PM 
Tom, you are bringing in a unique situation, which is not the point of the previous post. I think we are on the exact same page though.

My dispute is a coach having the power to deny a transfer. Yes, in a perfect world we want all our kids to be happy where they are. But even non-athletes often realize a school isn't for them....for whatever reason.

Athletes should be allowed to leave. They have to sit out a year, but they should be allowed to transfer when, and if, they feel a different school is a better fit. Their coach should not have power over schools that acceptable or not acceptable.

My son is heading to college next year. If for whatever reason, he decides at some point he wants to transfer to a different institution, he has that right. Tommy should have that same right.

Last Edited: 3/31/2016 2:35:11 PM by cc-cat
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 2:48:40 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
Tom, you are bringing in a unique situation, which is not the point of the previous post. I think we are on the exact same page though.

My dispute is a coach having the power to deny a transfer. Yes, in a perfect world we want all our kids to be happy where they are. But even non-athletes often realize a school isn't for them....for whatever reason.

Athletes should be allowed to leave. They have to sit out a year, but they should be allowed to transfer when, and if, they feel a different school is a better fit. Their coach should not have power over schools that acceptable or not acceptable.

My son is heading to college next year. If for whatever reason, he decides at some point he wants to transfer to a different institution, he has that right. Tommy should have that same right.


Agree with Borna's general argument, but also this.

I can attest to it from a regular student standpoint. I went to Akron my freshman year and hated it. I went there for all the wrong reasons (close to home, family troubles at the time, financially, easy to get in) and when I finally realized what I was missing out on I took a visit to Athens and the rest is history.

It should be no different for an athlete. Maybe they made a wrong choice and want a fresh start like I did. They shouldn't need a coach's OK for that, IMO.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 2:56:42 PM 
How many cases can we cite where a player hasn't been given a release? I guess I'm trying to get my head around how big of an issue this is, or is not.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 3:00:16 PM 
Probably not many, but here's the Bo Ryan issue.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id...

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id...

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 3:08:40 PM 
I'm probably in the minority, but I really don't have a problem with a restriction in transferring within the conference.

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Bobcatbob
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 3:11:28 PM 
I disagree with the notion that an institution and its current coach, whoever that is, has a hold on an athlete's life to exercise or not at their personal discretion.

To balance the ledger a bit, however, there is collateral damage when a scholarship athlete decides to transfer. In A&M's case, this is a huge impact. Recruiting has be to be re-thought immediately; where they thought they had stability, it's shattered; resources have been wasted, in effect, on kids who don't want to be there anymore, etc.

Whether he's to blame or not, Matta can't just get on the phone and attract 3 or 4 more 4 star talents - especially after this debacle.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 3:36:12 PM 
I have zero concern with the collateral damage suffered by an institution when an athlete transfers.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Relea
   Posted: 3/31/2016 8:11:24 PM 
I think Go Cats provided the link which I do not have but a few minutes before my son's choir performance so I may have to retract...I thought Ryan just had restrictions on certain schools and did not deny the actual release ....and at the same time most conferences mandate denial of transfers within the conference.

I agree with that on the resources...there is a lot that goes into building and recruiting and you can see an entire program decimated. When you look at the bigger pic recruiting and program building with 13 players. The one year rule is a good one and prevents the bulk of the NCAA 351 schools from becoming a free for all. Most of these kids (351 x13) are not going to play pro. THey will hopefully get a degree and finish. That is my main point. We have to do better at matching their school, program, coach and degree...not just where we use them as a f a leetes

Last Edited: 3/31/2016 8:13:16 PM by bornacatfan

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 8:16:08 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
To get a release from the National Letter of Intent, you must use the release form on the NLI website. After you fill out your section of the form, you send a copy of the form to two places: your school’s athletic department offices and to the NLI offices at the NCAA Eligibility Center. Once you send the form, the athletic department must respond within 30 days. There are three options for them to respond:

No release – This means you are not released from the NLI and all of its provisions are still in effect.
Complete release – This means you are released from all of the NLI’s provisions.
Removal of the recruiting ban – This means the recruiting ban is lifted, but the NLI penalty is still in effect if you do not fulfill the NLI.


NLI releases cannot be school-specific, like permission to contact. So you cannot be released to one school but not another. Because of this, many schools will first remove the recruiting ban, but may not grant a complete release until the school knows where an athlete plans to transfer.



Is the NLI penalty the thing where scholarships can be limited if a certain % of student-athletes who are granted scholarships do not graduate?

If so, is this looked at sport by sport (basketball alone, football alone, etc) or are all scholarship athletes at a school lumped in one pool?


105--You seem like an okay person, but you actually conceived to enroll at 'kron?! My esteem for you is lessened.




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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 9:19:19 PM 
Building on Monroe's questions -- how does the transferring of athletes impact the graduation rate? For example, with multiple players transferring from the Columbus Community College how does that impact their standing with respect to graduation rates?
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 3/31/2016 11:03:53 PM 
depends on their standing when they left and progress toward the degree....if they leave in good standing the NCAA has no problem in the cases I have seen.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 4/1/2016 9:31:02 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
Tom, you are bringing in a unique situation, which is not the point of the previous post. I think we are on the exact same page though.

My dispute is a coach having the power to deny a transfer. Yes, in a perfect world we want all our kids to be happy where they are. But even non-athletes often realize a school isn't for them....for whatever reason.

Athletes should be allowed to leave. They have to sit out a year, but they should be allowed to transfer when, and if, they feel a different school is a better fit. Their coach should not have power over schools that acceptable or not acceptable.

My son is heading to college next year. If for whatever reason, he decides at some point he wants to transfer to a different institution, he has that right. Tommy should have that same right.


Agree with Borna's general argument, but also this.

I can attest to it from a regular student standpoint. I went to Akron my freshman year and hated it. I went there for all the wrong reasons (close to home, family troubles at the time, financially, easy to get in) and when I finally realized what I was missing out on I took a visit to Athens and the rest is history.

It should be no different for an athlete. Maybe they made a wrong choice and want a fresh start like I did. They shouldn't need a coach's OK for that, IMO.



It's not like they can't transfer without a release. They just can't play NCAA basketball on scholarship without one. And as has been noted, it's extremely rare for a coach to not grant a release. That is obvious from how many transfers there are every year.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 4/1/2016 5:01:02 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
How many cases can we cite where a player hasn't been given a release? I guess I'm trying to get my head around how big of an issue this is, or is not.


Bigger than we probably think. Like him or not, Bias is correct - if they are going to have non-compete clauses - then they are employees.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/15112545/g...

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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Transfer vs. Release
   Posted: 4/2/2016 3:46:13 PM 
compelling article on Beilein and his stand on Spike. IMHO he is being a bit hypocritical but he may have a bit of resentment following Beifeldt' s contributions to the Hoosiers after leaving Michigone last year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/michigan-limiting-spike-alb...

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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