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Topic: TOS to Illinois

Topic: TOS to Illinois

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Tim Burke
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Member Since: 11/23/2004
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TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 3:50:40 PM

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/840665782069555200

Ohio '99 EMU '00 USF '08(?)

FearLeon
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 3:55:12 PM

Tim Burke wrote:

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/840665782069555200

The grass isn't always greener.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

Pete Chouteau
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 3:59:59 PM

Oh. There was green. And 1,700,000 more of it to come.

perimeterpost
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 4:00:56 PM

would love to see him end up in Oxford, OH.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

FearLeon
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 4:01:32 PM

Pete Chouteau wrote:

Oh. There was green. And 1,700,000 more of it to come.

True...but what could have been if he just stuck around for one more year with entire sweet 16 team back, plus LaVert. He could have named his school. Instead, took the first power conference offer that came his way. But glad his bank account is full.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

Donuts
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Member Since: 9/22/2010
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 4:03:24 PM

2 winning conference records in 9 seasons.

I don't trust coaches on the come up thanks in large part to 18-22 year olds having a 1 week hot streak. I wonder if Cooper or Bassett ever received their cut of that pay day.

Before I get judged for this though, I know this is how the game works and I would have taken the job too. Not hating on Groce as much as hating on Illinois. They put their program in the hands of a guy who never finished in the top 2 of the MAC East.

Ted Thompson
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 4:12:01 PM

I think Groce and Christian understand how bad the Miami job is. And both have the money to be choosy. Mike Thomas, was the AD that hired Groce at Illinois, is now the AD at Cleveland State.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

allen
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 5:11:03 PM

Groce would be great for CSU, there is a lot of D1 talent in Cleveland and Akron, plus with his Indiana and Illinois contacts, he would do great there. I hope he does not return to the MAC. I wonder if Kipper Nichols would follow him to Cleveland, I am good friends with his mom and dad. He should be kipper Nichols Jr.
Groce got oden and Conley to go to OSU. He got DJ Cooper and James Kinney to come to Ohio, had James Kinney focussed on basketball at Ohio, we would have been even better. He ended up being all conference somewhere else.

Last Edited: 3/11/2017 5:13:59 PM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 5:46:19 PM

That's too bad. I too hope he doesn't resurface in the MAC. I had a hard time when we played against teams that Boals and Geno coached. I would expect Groce to stay somewhere in the midwest.

Chicken George
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 6:53:00 PM

Yes, while most of us only remember Georgetown and the Sweet 16, it wasn't pretty often times in between. And yes, I remember hearing about the internal stuff with some of the risky hires (recruits). And finally, even though it makes 100% financial sense, I never like guys who dump us for the bigger pay day even though everyone understands. But at the end of the day, I'd take Groce back in heartbeat. He'd take swings at guys like Cooper, Offutt, Levert, Bassett and currently I don't think we do. A Groce regime would have more volatility, to use a stock term, but higher high's despite some lower lows. Right now, I don't feel the ceiling is anywhere near the potential ceiling Groce offered. Probably a smoother more consistent ride now, but fewer Georgetown/Sweet 16 potential dreams.

SBH
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 7:01:59 PM

Cleveland State is a dog s&$t job.

Donuts
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 7:18:07 PM

Chicken George wrote:

He'd take swings at guys like Cooper, Offutt, Levert, Bassett and currently I don't think we do. .

Kaminsky was a top 100 national recruit, whereas Offutt and Bassett were both just outside top 100. Cooper was a legitimately great get, but I mean Campbell is a MAC player of the year and Carter or Simmons could easily win it next year.

Levert, I mean that's a great what if. Say he tears up the MAC and stays healthy. He's a 1 or 2 and done. He could transfer. He could not blossom the way he did at Michigan. All we know is Groce found him early and he turned into a slept on player. That's not the same as taking big swings at big fish.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 7:30:45 PM

Chicken George wrote:

How do you know Coach Phillips isn't looking at players like you're referring to? Plus, Simmons and Kaminski were legitimate big gets. Also, remember he took two teams to the Big Dance at ND State and won a game the second time.

I can tell you that Phillips will only bring in players who fit the mindset of what he wants. He wont compromise on that.

Last Edited: 3/11/2017 7:31:25 PM by Jeff McKinney

bornacatfan
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 7:37:39 PM

Interesting point Donuts. Walt and Bassett were guys JG was on since they were in late grade school, early jr high. If the same was with LeVert I find that interesting.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

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Donuts
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 8:06:02 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Interesting point Donuts. Walt and Bassett were guys JG was on since they were in late grade school, early jr high. If the same was with LeVert I find that interesting.

Hard to really get much from that though since he was originally on the first two for his previous job. LaVert had no major offers until very late IIRC. Also can't forget Bradds. Of course, I think Carter could basically be Saul's Bradds (small Ohio school diamond in the rough).

I said this in another thread, but Bassett played a major role in making Groce, and the next wave of Bassetts broke him. As long as Groce plays that game, that's how it is going to be. I really have no clue how our university would have looked if we made the Sweet 16 and our main guy was then ruled ineligible because he was done with the school part of college. I can just imagine with all that free time in between weekends, journalists penning think pieces on whether Ohio is a fraud. Has something like that ever happened during the tournament?

Taking the same gambles on guys like Bassett at Illinois hasn't worked. Then in the regular season, his team was the only one Rutgers felt like they actually had a chance against the past two years. All kinds of terrible regular season losses at Ohio and Illinois. Relying on tournament magic is like playing the slot machine.

The more you rely on gambles and gimmicks, the less trusting I am of any coach. That's why I'm firmly in the camp of Shaka Smart being a questionable hire. His VCU success relied too much on gimmicky defense for me. When people constantly debated "Stevens or Smart," I could hardly believe it. I think Stevens is one of the best basketball coaches ever.

Last Edited: 3/11/2017 8:11:09 PM by Donuts

allen
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 8:27:53 PM

Donuts wrote:

bornacatfan wrote:

Interesting point Donuts. Walt and Bassett were guys JG was on since they were in late grade school, early jr high. If the same was with LeVert I find that interesting.

Let's stop trying to discount Groce, he recruited Kinney and he was just as good as Bassett. Saul needs to get the right recruits and make some adjustments. What if Ivo never went AWOL. What if Walt hits the free throw? The would've, could've and should've is not relevant. Groce won three tournament games. he won one at Illinois. He had a young team that was up and down this year and he got canned. His resume is his resume.

Last Edited: 3/11/2017 11:40:02 PM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

OhioStunter
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 8:31:26 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

would love to see him end up in Oxford, OH.

Get. Out.

Donuts
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 8:42:07 PM

allen wrote:

Let's stop trying to discoount Groce, he recruited Kinney and he was just as good as Bassett. Saul needs to get the right recruits and make some adjustments. What if Ivo never went AWOL. What if Walt hits the free throw? The would've, could've and should've is not relevant. Groce won three tournament games. he won one at Illinois. He had a young team that was up and down this year and he got canned. His resume is his resume.

College basketball is so random that I just think it is dumb how one win for an underdog in the NCAA tournament and all of a sudden they are being linked to major jobs. We were very, very close to coughing up that lead against Akron in the MAC Finals in 2012. It's fascinating to me that a Cooper desperation heave at the shot clock buzzer or a mistimed tip in for Akron made a coach so much money. Meanwhile, Dartis could have theoretically blow our chance at another Sweet 16 run simply by getting in the way of Block taking a charge last night. Do any of those random plays say anything about Saul Phillips or John Groce?

brucecuth
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 9:02:48 PM

Very interesting views here.

Live by the knucklehead, die by the knucklehead. By the beginning of this season, Groce appeared to come around to the thinking that he could not continually have suspensions, arrests, etc and have a successful program. The comments he made when Kipper Nichols arrived were telling. I can only paraphrase, but it was something like, "I've come to realize how important it is that you bring kids in who are good fits..." Unfortunately, you cannot turn around a program that's been in decline for 3 years that quickly.

I wanna get back to the NCAA as bad as anyone. But I also appreciate the fact that our kids at the very least appear to be representing the school with class and also appear to get along well as a unit. I look at the personal growth of guys like Kaminski and Setty, and I feel good about Saul and how our program operates. Saul works hard. He wants to win. He appears to love Athens and Ohio. I look forward to seeing him at the coaches' caravan this spring.

bornacatfan
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 9:05:18 PM

Donuts wrote:

Taking the same gambles on guys like Bassett at Illinois hasn't worked. Then in the regular season, his team was the only one Rutgers felt like they actually had a chance against the past two years. All kinds of terrible regular season losses at Ohio and Illinois. Relying on tournament magic is like playing the slot machine.

Hope that is not what you think or the reality that folks hold about that aspect. There is no one like Basset on Illini and no one could have foretold those guys misdeeds and alleged problems after they got on campus. Nunn hitting his GF could not be foretold. Tate was found to be not guilty of anything the girl made up and Black getting physical and carrying a knife could not have been foretold with in home visits. Perhaps the bigger problem there is the long leash that is given to athletes in that locker room. There is no pot being sold out of the Illini locker room and no one convinced they do not have to go to class. Basset is unique to Groce. "your talent has to be greater than your sins" is what I was told.

There are a good many things that went wrong in this regime/succession of transfers/recruiting misses....and a number of other things....but none of those guys came in with baggage, habits, disdain for school, backgrounds that would classify them as "Gambles" in the way that Armon (and many D1 players in multiple programs) is'/was. The rope got shorter and the recruiting smarter based on experiences it seems to me.

OhioCatFan
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 9:10:08 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

perimeterpost wrote:

would love to see him end up in Oxford, OH.

Get. Out.

I think I was the first one to mention this possibility, and I said it came to me in nightmare. This would not be good for OHIO.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Donuts
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 9:22:25 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

I'll take your word for it. I guess you're right it hasn't been as bad at Illinois as the stories originally led the public to believe, but ultimately those guys did make some unfavorable headlines AND they didn't do anything to move the needle on the court. That spells trouble.

allen
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 9:22:48 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

perimeterpost wrote:

would love to see him end up in Oxford, OH.

Get. Out.

I think I was the first one to mention this possibility, and I said it came to me in nightmare. This would not be good for OHIO.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

bobcatsquared
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 9:58:56 PM

Disagree, just like I did the first time OCF made his observation. If Groce is good for Miami, that is good for the MAC and Ohio.

OCF, think about Miami-Ohio games in the Convo from the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s with over 10,000 fans seeing two quality teams competing. Now, compare that to recent games in front of 5,000 fans with a visiting team made up players who really aren't MAC-level talent.

Doubt Groce would go to Miami, but it would be a great get for the Redhawks and the league.

bornacatfan
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RE: TOS to Illinois

Posted: 3/11/2017 10:52:58 PM

Looks like some in IL have the same sentiments as some of our own going back to posts in 2010 and 2011 as they look at UNC Wilmington for the next coach.

ILNative;1287103 wrote:

The idea that Keatts is a John Groce hire is just wrong. John Groce took a mediocre Ohio program and kept it mediocre capping it off with a "fluke" hot run to the sweet 16. Keatts took a nothing program and turned it into a great one. Not okay...great. Keatts record is sterling....

Last Edited: 3/11/2017 10:53:37 PM by bornacatfan

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