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Topic: RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Topic: RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 10:01:54 AM

GraffZ06 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

But to answer your question, given our limitations based on geography, academics and budgets -

Care to expound on that? We have the best arena in the conference, academically are near the top, and just because a school pays its head coach more, do we expect that same coach to win more games? Explain these so called limitations. Or, is it our lack of money to pay to get and retain players?

I consider our geography, academics an budget all LIMITING factors for our success.

Athens is a small town, in rural SE Ohio, with zilch for large cities or business $$.
Within 1 hour you have - nothing (Parkersburg 28k and Lancaster 41k don't count)
Within 2 hours you have - Columbus metro 2.2M (wholly behind O$U) and Charleston 46k
WIthin 3 hours you have - Dayton metro 754k (UD and WSU), Cincinnati metro 1.8M (UC and X plus UD/Miami/O$U/UK/Louisville), Akron/Canton metro 698k (Akron and Kent), Wheeling 25k and Morgantown 31k (WVU).

That's access to like a TOTAL of 150k in population within 3 hours with loyalty/rooting interest in the Bobcats to stir up business and sponsorships.

We all know our budget limitations, so I won't hit that dead horse.

And yes academics, both from a university standpoint for admissions as well as our staff preferences - limits the pool of players we can/want to go after.

What are you actually saying in this post? It makes no sense to me at all.

We lack access to population centers with large companies and donors.
We lack access to large internal operating budgets.
We have high academic standards.

None of those HELP US get ahead in basketball.

I'll give you the first half of your first point but having worked in university advancement, you go to the donors to ask for their money. My alma mater recently received a $10 million dollar gift from an alum who lived in California and $2 million from a guy who lived in North Carolina. Donor physical proximity to the institution is irrelevant. Affinity toward that institution is what matters.

So if our internal operating budget were larger, what would you spend it on and what results would that spending produce.

As for point three, virtually anyone can get into OU today. High academic standards certainly hasn't hurt James Jones ability to produce a top team at Yale.

greencat
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 10:05:38 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

greencat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

We have high academic standards.

Sorry, but can somebody explain to me how this has become accepted doctrine here? We're a top 200 national university; we're not the highest rated national university in our conference, and we accept 85% of applicants. We can get any basketball player who wants to come here accepted.

Any kid who is in the bottom 15% academically probably shouldn't be a priority.

Without naming an obvious name, that was found out not that long ago.

Sure, but the idea that our academics somehow are a hindrance athletically seems off to me. We're not a particularly hard school to get into and if we want a guy, we can pretty much always get him accepted.

We seem to be agreeing on quite a bit these days.

It's not like we're trying to get guys into a grad program at Duke or Northwestern.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 10:06:35 AM

Graf, if you're going to cite population, it's best to look at metro area numbers rather than in city limits. Parkersburg- Marietta has a lot more than 28k. Still not a center for much corporate presence, though.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 10:23:22 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

What is now called the Parkersburg-Marietta-Vienna SMSA has a population of 146,629.

Last Edited: 2/17/2025 10:23:40 AM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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OhioCatFan
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 10:28:45 AM

On two topics discussed in this thread:

1. I would say right now Boals seat is lukewarm.
2. I suspect that Groce at Akron recruits players who could not get in at OHIO academically.

FJC31
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 10:30:31 AM

GraffZ06 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

But to answer your question, given our limitations based on geography, academics and budgets -

What are you actually saying in this post? It makes no sense to me at all.

With this logic, our football team (and other sports for that matter) shouldn't be able to get ahead, either.

greencat
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 10:49:43 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

2. I suspect that Groce at Akron recruits players who could not get in at OHIO academically.

He has transfers from North Carolina, Cornell, West Virginia x2, tOSU and previously from Ole Miss, Butler, USF, Wake Forest, etc.

I'm not a Groce apologist, just wondering which of those school is so academically inferior. Asking for a friend.

Last Edited: 2/17/2025 10:55:25 AM by greencat

FJC31
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 11:02:22 AM

greencat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

2. I suspect that Groce at Akron recruits players who could not get in at OHIO academically.

Yea, I mean, if academics are such a road block for student-athletes to get into OU, can someone explain Miami's recent surge in hoops? Sure, it might have more money, but its academics are considered superior to ours.

Last Edited: 2/17/2025 11:02:56 AM by FJC31

greencat
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 11:41:55 AM

FJC31 wrote:

greencat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

2. I suspect that Groce at Akron recruits players who could not get in at OHIO academically.

Not to the extent of Cornell/UNC/Wake**

**from US News & World Report

Cornell = #11 nationally
Wake = #46
UNC = #27
tOSU = #41

Bobcat Love
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 1:51:26 PM

greencat wrote:

FJC31 wrote:

greencat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

2. I suspect that Groce at Akron recruits players who could not get in at OHIO academically.

Not to the extent of Cornell/UNC/Wake**

**from US News & World Report

Cornell = #11 nationally
Wake = #46
UNC = #27
tOSU = #41

I wake up this morning and all of a sudden we are Vanderbilt with our academic standards. This is like Trump yelling like a maniac to kill Tik Tok, then magically changing his mind to be the savior of the App. Moron. For any athlete we want, academic standards are not an issue - trust me. Give me a break. This is the most farcical, ridiculous excuse I have ever heard for lazy recruiting and not delivering results. It's ok to hold Boals accountable, I promise.

FearLeon
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 2:37:19 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

So sure if you want to talk about firing the equivalent of Danny Nee because you don't like his regular season record against Toledo, just know what you're asking for.

My expectations for our program are that we are annually one of the top 4 teams in the conference, have an expectation of making the conference semis every year, conference finals every 2-4 years. An NCAA appearance every 5 years and a win or two in the dance every couple appearances.

If you expect more than that, fine. I'm all for it. Just show me the 7 figure sack of money you're bringing to the table eacj year to make it happen.

There's not a single person here saying that we should fire Jeff Boals. Right now. We're pointing out a concerning trend line, mediocre results, and wondering how long that's acceptable. Everybody likes Jeff Boals; he's a good guy, het gets guys to play hard, and they seem to like playing for him. That's not nothing.

But it's disingenuous to insist that people want to fire Boals because of "his regular season record against Toledo." People are concerned that Jeff Boals is trending in the wrong direction. A big part of that is his inability to beat Akron, Toledo, and Kent State consistently. If you're the 4th best program in the conference, statistically, NCAA tournament appearances are going to come sparingly. Another big part of it are his recruiting struggles. It's been covered ad nauseam here, but I don't think there's much debating that Boals hasn't brought in enough high end talent, and we all know the issue with bigs.

You laid out your expectations for an Ohio coach -- conference semis every year, conference finals every 2-4, and NCAA tournament every 5 years.

If you toss out the Covid year, Boals is now at one NCAA tournament appearance every 5 years (assuming this mediocre team doesn't go on a weird run). We've been the the semis every year, but we haven't played for a MAC championship since in 3 seasons, likely to be 4 after this year.

By your own standards, a couple more years like the last few take Boals off track, How long do you accept being the 3rd or 4th best team in the league and getting beat consistently by Akron/Kent/Toledo? What if UMass ends up on that list? Miami is trending upwards while we're trending downwards.

When does the seat get hot?

Spot on

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT #NoMissesAllowed #NoOtherTeamInAmericaFlexesLikeOhio #11Months

GraffZ06
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 2:39:55 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

greencat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

We have high academic standards.

Any kid who is in the bottom 15% academically probably shouldn't be a priority.

Without naming an obvious name, that was found out not that long ago.

It's a simple numbers game.

I know for a fact, this President and administration are dying to do everything in their power to distance themselves from the "best party school" stigma - and they are increasing standards. I have family on campus now, and from alums from the 90s they have admitted - man this place has changed a TON in the last 25 years. Nothing like when we were in school at all.

My niece was valedictorian of her class in KY. She got in no problem. Two of her HS classmates weren't so lucky.

We know for a fact there are and have been basketball players at Akron, Kent and BG who could never suit up for the Bobcats. That doesn't make us Duke or Yale, but it does mean we're thinning the pool of players.

Safe to assume OU isn't getting any 5-star recruits. While I hope and think Boals will continue to reach for some 4-star guys, we don't get many of those either (a handful ever). So say the top 20% or so are out of our league due to $ and talent. That leaves 80% to recruit. If 15% of them need to be dismissed due to academics, that's an additional 12% that are eliminated - leaving only 68% of the available recruits.

Doesn't mean you can't recruit or succeed. We've landed Mark Sears, AJ Brown and Ayden Evans recently. All highly ranked/recruited.

All I'm saying is due to academics - looking at 68% of available players instead of 80% of available players, can only LIMIT/HURT our ultimate success versus other schools that aren't in the same situation.

Last Edited: 2/17/2025 2:42:16 PM by GraffZ06

Alan Swank
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 4:15:01 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

greencat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

We have high academic standards.

Any kid who is in the bottom 15% academically probably shouldn't be a priority.

Without naming an obvious name, that was found out not that long ago.

And what facts do you know? That your niece from some unnamed KY high school got in but two of her classmates didn't and therefore that makes us a highly selective school that prevents us from recruiting basketball players? OU and the city of Athens started working on the party school image years ago. Halloween is now a city sanctioned and sponsored event, the move to semesters moved the fests to March and April and they end long before dark each evening. Having a beer in the Convo and Peden has normalized the responsible consumption of beverage alcohol. And that 68% figure. The math to come up with that is just mystifying.

A simple Google search of Ohio University's acceptance rate yield the following - '"Ohio University's acceptance rate is 85%, and its early acceptance rate is 90.3%. This indicates that Ohio University is lightly selective. Don't get me wrong, you can get a very good education here particularly if you apply yourself but it is not hard to get in.

Bobcat Love
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 4:15:12 PM

We are at record enrollment, it ain�t Duke.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 4:43:03 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

2. I suspect that Groce at Akron recruits players who could not get in at OHIO academically.

This is the sort of thing college basketball fans tell themselves about their rivals to explain away losses while allowing themselves to feel morally superior.

This isn't Amherst and Grand Canyon.

It's two state schools in Ohio in the exact same system. Credits from one transfer to the other.

FJC31
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/17/2025 6:18:12 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

greencat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

We have high academic standards.

Any kid who is in the bottom 15% academically probably shouldn't be a priority.

Without naming an obvious name, that was found out not that long ago.

The party school comment got me. The new dean of students (who probably isn�t even there anymore) at my freshman orientation in 08 was already trying to change that stigma. Old news and irrelevant to basketball or any sports recruiting for that matter.

Last Edited: 2/18/2025 3:49:31 PM by FJC31

GoCats105
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/18/2025 11:20:40 AM

FJC31 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

greencat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

We have high academic standards.

Any kid who is in the bottom 15% academically probably shouldn't be a priority.

Without naming an obvious name, that was found out not that long ago.

The party school comment got me. The new dean of students (who probably isn�t even there anymore) at my freshman orientation in 08 was already trying changing that stigma. Old news and irrelevant to basketball or any sports recruiting for that matter.

They've been trying to change that stigma for decades. It was a priority when I was enrolled from 03-06.

shabamon
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/18/2025 12:12:24 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

FJC31 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

greencat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

We have high academic standards.

Any kid who is in the bottom 15% academically probably shouldn't be a priority.

Without naming an obvious name, that was found out not that long ago.

They've been trying to change that stigma for decades. It was a priority when I was enrolled from 03-06.

And it looks like it's working. https://www.reddit.com/r/ohiouniversity/comments/1ie5qi4/... /

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/18/2025 1:37:43 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

We know for a fact there are and have been basketball players at Akron, Kent and BG who could never suit up for the Bobcats. That doesn't make us Duke or Yale, but it does mean we're thinning the pool of players.

Who are the basketball players at Akron/Kent/BG who who qualified there academically but could never suit up for us?

The NCAA sets standard qualifying guidelines. What's the scenario where you qualify with the NCAA but not to attend Ohio University?

Bobcat Love
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/18/2025 6:13:36 PM

By the way, anybody in the Administration that was fighting against the party school image should be purged in a DOGE style financial cleansing. God forbid we were known for something. We were actually getting kids that liked to have a good time and seemed generally well rounded. Now, we are big in the Loser community. I just don�t get it, we had a brand; at a time when influencer branding was just getting started. I swear, we are our own worst enemy. Probably had MDWST consulting for the University on business matters.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/18/2025 8:06:18 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

We're now an elite academic institution with an 85% acceptance rate, that's the 5th highest rated public school in our own state.

longtiimelurker
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/22/2025 3:01:16 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

greencat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

We have high academic standards.

Any kid who is in the bottom 15% academically probably shouldn't be a priority.

Without naming an obvious name, that was found out not that long ago.

I'm not sure the coaches who have lost players to other MAC schools because they could not get them qualified would agree. Who was the dude from up around Cleveland who was under the radar when he broke his leg? We figured out a way to get him a tutor and get him ready only to lose him to WVU at the last minute once we ensured he would be admitted. Several others come to mind.

FearLeon
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/22/2025 8:05:00 PM

As Ohio Head Basketball Coach through 2-22-2025:

Akron 67
Ohio 84

That is more like it!

Akron 5-8
Kent State 6-7
Toledo 1-9

Career record: 12-24

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT #NoMissesAllowed #NoOtherTeamInAmericaFlexesLikeOhio #11Months

BillyTheCat
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 2/22/2025 9:00:13 PM

FearLeon wrote:

As Ohio Head Basketball Coach through 2-22-2025:

Akron 67
Ohio 84

That is more like it!

Akron 5-8
Kent State 6-7
Toledo 1-9

Career record: 12-24

If OHIO doesn�t make a coaching change soon, some folks will lose their mind and on this thread.

Last Edited: 2/22/2025 9:02:13 PM by BillyTheCat

FearLeon
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RE: Boals Career Record Against The Big 3: Akron-Toledo-Kent

Posted: 3/7/2025 8:52:55 PM

As Ohio Head Basketball Coach through 3-7-2025:

Ohio 82
Toledo 96

Akron 5-8
Kent State 6-7
Toledo 1-10

Career record: 12-25

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT #NoMissesAllowed #NoOtherTeamInAmericaFlexesLikeOhio #11Months

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