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Topic: RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Topic: RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/18/2019 3:13:39 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Time to start singing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Cs1qFAzkU

Nope,no good.

The song makes multiple references to "Lord" and praying.

Could be considered offensive to Agnostics and Atheists. :-)

Remember when you and all the conservatives on the board wailed about how offensive Colin Kaepernick's kneeling was? Or when you got all upset about Michelle Wolf's jokes at the White House Correspondents dinner?

Funny how outrage culture's fine when it's your feelings, huh?

rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,504

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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/18/2019 3:27:31 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Time to start singing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Cs1qFAzkU

Nope,no good.

The song makes multiple references to "Lord" and praying.

Could be considered offensive to Agnostics and Atheists. :-)

Outrage ?

What "outrage" ?

You seem to be the one who is angry,not me.

I guess you didn't notice the :-)

It was a joke.

Last Edited: 10/18/2019 3:47:31 PM by rpbobcat

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/18/2019 3:44:52 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

If you read my post,I didn't say anything about my comments being representative of what happened.

Ah yes, you didn't say anything about your comments being representative. You just went on to wonder how "these people would handle basic training."

So you didn't conclude anything, aside from conclusions about the character of the people making the complaints.

Maybe I'm missing something.

You posted "I mean you just made up some minor..."

I gave examples of what actions on the part of the Chi O's and the Business Fraternity that could,under O.U.'s policy,be considered hazing.

You also took my Basic Training comment out of context.

It was made as a comparison to my previous paragraph that fraternities are 100% voluntary and you can quit any time.

Can't do that in the military.

As I also pointed out we're talking about adults,not children.

Last Edited: 10/18/2019 3:48:27 PM by rpbobcat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/19/2019 2:28:56 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Time to start singing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Cs1qFAzkU

Nope,no good.

The song makes multiple references to "Lord" and praying.

Could be considered offensive to Agnostics and Atheists. :-)

Outrage ?

What "outrage" ?

You seem to be the one who is angry,not me.

I guess you didn't notice the :-)

It was a joke.

Yeah man, that you're joking is the point.

I'm noting that here you're joking about the over-sensitivity of people filing complaints.

But when you think something's distasteful, and you're the one who is "outraged", that's perfectly justifiable.

I'm just trying to point out that for all the talk about how this generation is a bunch of snowflakes, plenty of the same people who think that have melted down over truly silly things like jokes at the White House Correspondent's dinner, or a protest against police violence.

In other words, it's hilariulously oblivious to simultaneously make fun of a bunch of college kids for being overly sensitive and embracing victimhood and then turn around and, with a straight face, suggest this must be an anti-fraternity conspiracy. Based on the mere fact that you know no facts. Talk about embracing victimhood and over-sensitivity.

Last Edited: 10/20/2019 1:46:12 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/20/2019 7:54:36 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Time to start singing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Cs1qFAzkU

Nope,no good.

The song makes multiple references to "Lord" and praying.

Could be considered offensive to Agnostics and Atheists. :-)

Outrage ?

What "outrage" ?

You seem to be the one who is angry,not me.

I guess you didn't notice the :-)

It was a joke.

In 2004, Yassir Arafat died on November 11th

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/20/2019 8:04:49 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Time to start singing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Cs1qFAzkU

Nope,no good.

The song makes multiple references to "Lord" and praying.

Could be considered offensive to Agnostics and Atheists. :-)

Outrage ?

What "outrage" ?

You seem to be the one who is angry,not me.

I guess you didn't notice the :-)

It was a joke.

In 2004, Yassir Arafat died on November 11th

I'd be pretty desperate to change the subject too, were I you. I get it, man.

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/20/2019 8:33:57 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Time to start singing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Cs1qFAzkU

Nope,no good.

The song makes multiple references to "Lord" and praying.

Could be considered offensive to Agnostics and Atheists. :-)

Outrage ?

What "outrage" ?

You seem to be the one who is angry,not me.

I guess you didn't notice the :-)

It was a joke.

You should go back and reread my "joke" post.

It was referring Alan Swank's suggestion that we all sing Kumbaya.

None of my posts said anything negative about,or made fun of,the people who made the allegations.

Right now we don't even know what the allegations are.

My problem is with how this whole matter has/is being handled by O.U.'s administration.

That includes suspending fraternities,who weren't even accused of hazing.
Only suspending IFC members.Then when accusations are made against 3 sororities,not suspending all the other sororities.

I'm also really surprised that,unless I missed it,since this whole thing started,I haven't seen any public comments from the University's President.

Last Edited: 10/20/2019 8:38:00 PM by rpbobcat

BillyTheCat
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/20/2019 9:54:32 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Time to start singing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Cs1qFAzkU

Nope,no good.

The song makes multiple references to "Lord" and praying.

Could be considered offensive to Agnostics and Atheists. :-)

Outrage ?

What "outrage" ?

You seem to be the one who is angry,not me.

I guess you didn't notice the :-)

It was a joke.

BINGO and no you did not miss anything, President has been mum. , that is what most people here feel. However in 2004 Hurricane Bonnie hit Florida.

Last Edited: 10/20/2019 9:55:37 PM by BillyTheCat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/21/2019 9:13:15 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Time to start singing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Cs1qFAzkU

Nope,no good.

The song makes multiple references to "Lord" and praying.

Could be considered offensive to Agnostics and Atheists. :-)

Outrage ?

What "outrage" ?

You seem to be the one who is angry,not me.

I guess you didn't notice the :-)

It was a joke.

If your intention wasn't to be negative about the people who made the allegations, you should work a bit on your communication skills.

You have now devoted three separate posts pointing out how according the the OU Student Code of Conduct, minor things could be considered hazing. You've also said "I'd love to see how these people handle basic training." I guess your intention with that was to say that Basic Training isn't voluntary, or whatever. Weird example, what with basic training being voluntary and all. Adults join the military, if they don't want to be in the military, they can quit.

If you can't understand how I might draw a straight line between your citing minor examples as potential violations of the Student Code of Conduct and the ongoing conversation that this is an overreach by the Administration, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Post Count: 3,285

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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/21/2019 9:14:18 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Time to start singing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Cs1qFAzkU

Nope,no good.

The song makes multiple references to "Lord" and praying.

Could be considered offensive to Agnostics and Atheists. :-)

Outrage ?

What "outrage" ?

You seem to be the one who is angry,not me.

I guess you didn't notice the :-)

It was a joke.

BINGO and no you did not miss anything, President has been mum. , that is what most people here feel. However in 2004 Hurricane Bonnie hit Florida.

Still missing after 11 pages of this thread: anybody willing to argue there isn't hazing going on.

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,504

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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/21/2019 12:23:40 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Still missing after 11 pages of this thread: anybody willing to argue there isn't hazing going on.

Its pretty apparent from the comments on this thread, that O.U.'s definitions of hazing are so vague that, pretty much anything,like an active telling a pledge to get him/her a soda (pop to those of you from the Midwest),can be considered "hazing".

I really think we need to see exactly what the hazing allegations are.
Then people can decide,if in fact the alleged hazing actually did occur,is it something that common sense says warrants "action" on the part of O.U.,or was it merely an innocuous violation of poorly defined policies.

I also still want to know,where's Nellis ?
Maybe he's busy working on next week's First Friday letter.

Last Edited: 10/21/2019 12:40:19 PM by rpbobcat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/21/2019 12:38:40 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Still missing after 11 pages of this thread: anybody willing to argue there isn't hazing going on.

Right, I'm aware of all of that. So let me more direct in my question:

Do you think the only complaints here are akin to an active telling a pledge to get him or her a soda?

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/21/2019 12:43:30 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Still missing after 11 pages of this thread: anybody willing to argue there isn't hazing going on.

Right, I'm aware of all of that. So let me more direct in my question:

Do you think the only complaints here are akin to an active telling a pledge to get him or her a soda?

I don't know what any of the allegations are.
I also don't know if there are more then one allegation against a particular group.

No one on BA does.
Or if they do,they ain't telling.

No one also knows if any/all of the allegations are true.

Until we do,its only speculation.

Last Edited: 10/21/2019 12:45:45 PM by rpbobcat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/21/2019 12:46:16 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Still missing after 11 pages of this thread: anybody willing to argue there isn't hazing going on.

Right, I'm aware of all of that. So let me more direct in my question:

Do you think the only complaints here are akin to an active telling a pledge to get him or her a soda?

I don't know what any of the allegations are.

No one on BA does.
Or if they do,they ain't telling.

Until we do,its only speculation.

Yeah, I know. I'm asking you to speculate: do you think the Administration at OU would have taken these steps if the hazing allegations were of the sort you've repeatedly mentioned?

I get that the OU Student Code of Conduct includes a vague definition of hazing. I get you think that little things -- like asking somebody to get you a soda, or the Six Flags example you cited -- could theoretically be considered a violation.

Do you, personally, expect the accusations to be of that level?

Last Edited: 10/21/2019 12:49:26 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

rpbobcat
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/21/2019 1:09:59 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Yeah, I know. I'm asking you to speculate: do you think the Administration at OU would have taken these steps in the hazing allegations were of the sort you've repeatedly mentioned?

I get that the OU Student Code of Conduct includes a vague definition of hazing. I get you think that little things -- like asking somebody to get you a soda, or the Six Flags example you cited -- could theoretically be considered a violation.

Do you, personally, expect the accusations to be of that level?

I honestly don't have any idea whether the allegations were serious,as in severity,or not.

Given O.U.'s "Zero Tolerance" policy,I'm not sure what their thought process was.

My opinion,looking at the "timeline",I think the first allegation and issuance of the "cease and desist" order was most likely for a legitimate hazing concern.

After that, I think it kind of "snowballed" on them,with O.U. issuing a "cease and desist" order against any/all organizations against whom any allegation had been made.

It will be interesting to find out if any of these allegations were made by a "third party" and/or if they were made anonymously .

Last Edited: 10/21/2019 1:10:56 PM by rpbobcat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/21/2019 1:25:09 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Yeah, perhaps after receiving legitimate complaints about hazing concerns about the frats, they overreacted about less severe hazing accusations against other organizations to avoid the appearance of bias. Who knows. I mean, people here were accusing them of bias. So that may have been a widespread concern that they reacted to.

Alan Swank
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/24/2019 9:17:27 AM

https://www.athensnews.com/eedition/page-a/page_119575c1-...

OU to make hazing allegations against suspended groups sometime next week.

rpbobcat
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/25/2019 6:52:57 AM

www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/ohio-university-haz...

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/25/2019 9:10:23 AM

There are some very serious allegations here as well as some rather innocuous ones (cleaning a house?) as well. How do they handle anonymous allegations, I wonder. For example, the Delta Zeta allegations are quite serious (broken bones, assault, abuse, etc.), but they are dated and anonymous. How easy would it be for somebody not involved in the sorority to claim a fake report? While I understand the desire to err on the side of caution, I think this gets to be rather sticky.

Curious how people who wanted information feel about this. Do the allegations, even those unfounded, scar a fraternity/sorority from here on out? For Chi Omega, which is accused of forcing pledges to do drugs, I can't imagine how that information allows them to recruit going forward even if the information is not fully accurate.

Alan Swank
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/25/2019 9:33:03 AM

finnOhio wrote:

If proven to be true, the alcohol, drugs and physical and mental abuse should be appropriatedly sanctioned. Some of the others like the pie in the face fundraiser are no big deal. In all cases though, I do believe that those accused have the right to face their accusers. And finn I agree, some of these charges represent dangerous behavior.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/25/2019 9:53:22 AM

My initial thoughts after reading this:

The Sororities seem to be much worse than most of the fraternities.

But there are a few accusations here that are serious enough that, should they be proven, I'd expect a few frats/sororities to get death sentences. Or, barring that, very serious bans (i.e. multiple years).

There's also plenty here that's harmless and will lead to minor slaps on the wrist

The Optimist
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/25/2019 10:03:50 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/ohio-univers...

�It makes me a little uneasy knowing that there have been so many incidents recently so I just wanted to speak out.�

Sounds to me like the administration needs a cease and desist on sending cease and desist letters for make this student feel uneasy and be peer pressured into speaking out.

I've seen crazier things happen.

rpbobcat
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/25/2019 10:22:08 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

My initial thoughts after reading this:

The Sororities seem to be much worse than most of the fraternities.

If you want to get a good feel for sorority hazing read "Pledged".

wrote:

But there are a few accusations here that are serious enough that, should they be proven, I'd expect a few frats/sororities to get death sentences. Or, barring that, very serious bans (i.e. multiple years).

There's also plenty here that's harmless and will lead to minor slaps on the wrist

I agree on both counts.

What I found interesting were that some of the accusations
like the Beta's interrogations and Lambda Chi Alpha's "Hell Week" sound just like what my room mate went through when he pledged in the 70's.

I would have thought they've moved beyond that by now.

The accusation about the harm caused by having to text the weather forecast was funny.
Set an alarm,text the weather,go back to bed.

Last Edited: 10/25/2019 10:27:13 AM by rpbobcat

Kevin Finnegan
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Location: Rockton, IL
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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/25/2019 10:36:56 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

The accusation about the harm caused by having to text the weather forecast was funny.
Set an alarm,text the weather,go back to bed.

Yes, makes me think I was hazed when I started at WOUB and was forced to do the early morning (something like 5:30) sports report. I'd have to get in there much earlier to put together my four minutes of information. Definitely affected my sleep. Also, I was bullied when, as a 19 year-old, I mispronounced chasm on the air and was berated for it.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Post Count: 3,285

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RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Posted: 10/25/2019 11:02:19 AM

The Optimist wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/ohio-univers...

Did grammar send you a cease and desist?

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