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Topic:  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?

Topic:  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 2:30:39 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:

Are these the same experts who told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? How about the experts who told us you have to pass the bill to know what's in the bill? No? My bad, maybe it's the experts who said if we took the 500 million Bloomberg spent on his campaign and instead gave it away, every person would get $1.5 million.


I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

There are actual questions in my post. You didn't address any of them. You did, however, bring up a decade old debate about healthcare policy. Super helpful and relevant.

I'll ask it again more directly: what's so reckless about a high estimate of Covid 19 cases in Ohio, even if it ends up incorrect? And is that more or less reckless than Trump insisting the virus was completely under control and would be at zero?

Which of those two things puts people in more danger?


GraffZ06 wrote:

If that math is true, and we believe the mortality rate is 3% (which is exaggerated and untrue based on not knowing the actual # of infections, and HEAVILY skewed toward elderly, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt) then that means 3000 of those 100k Ohioans are going to die. That's more people dead...in Ohio alone....then have this virus in the entire country.


We have literally no idea how many people have this virus in the US. There's no reliable way to get tested. We just don't know. Part of the point I'm making is that while you feel it's reckless when people estimate large numbers, I think it's equally reckless to continue to insist the number of confirmed cases is at all representative given that the US fell flat on our face implementing testing infrastructure.

We don't know much of anything right now. As a result, there are going to be people whose estimates are way too high and people whose estimates are way too low.

The question I'm asking is why you all think one of those things is so reckless that it warrants impeachment, but the other is totally fine.


GraffZ06 wrote:

This is a really nasty bug. It can spread really easily. It is serious. Over-reactions like this just breed panic and make things worse. It is NOT helping. This is why there isn't any toilet paper on a shelf ANYWHERE.


And underreactions make things worse as well, because it leads to people not taking it seriously. The fact of the matter is that we don't know the scope of things currently precisely because it was underestimated and we lost 5 weeks. Those that continue to underestimate it and go about their daily lives are not helping either.


GraffZ06 wrote:

I'll tell you this, the incubation period before showing signs of sickness is estimated at 5 days. Today is Friday. If by next Tuesday Ohio isn't reporting OVER 100k people with the virus - DeWhiner should be fired, and possibly put in jail for inciting panic.


If DeWhiner should be fired for over-estimating here, can you make a case as to why Trump shouldn't be fired for his equally reckless approach?

It is, of course, not Trump's fault that Covid 19 showed up in the US. There was no avoiding that. But they handled this terribly. They made the decision to test far too few people, bungled the rollout of test manufacturing, and as a result this thing spread unchecked for a solid 3 weeks. And now we're in full pandemic mode -- schools shutting down, public gatherings cancelled -- and we're still not set up for large scale testing.

The World Health Organization offered the US tests. We refused them.

On February 25th, the White House said the virus has been "contained."

On February 26th, he said "I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don't think it's going to come to that, especially with the fact that we're going down not up. We're going very substantially down, not up. When you have 15 people, and the 15 in a couple of days is going to be down close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

On February 28th Trump said "Coronavirus is under control in the US." On Feb

If you're so upset about somebody saying the number 100,000 shouldn't you be equally upset about somebody saying the number 0?





Drops 🎤 👏 👏 👏
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 2:32:34 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
BLSS, I agree that the US handled the testing aspect of the COVID-19 crisis poorly at the beginning and that Trump made some foolish and incorrect statements minimizing the potential impact. I thought his tone in yesterday's press conference and the previous Oval Office address were much better. I also give Trump credit for very quickly shutting off travel from China when the COVID-19 virus was discovered to be running rampant in the country. If you will recall, he was widely criticized at the time for that action. I think I'm being fairly even-handed in this analysis, but certainly, like all of on BA, I have my biases.


He only shut off travel to Chinese, not people coming from China. Like only Chinese people can get the virus. His blaming of Obama for lack of testing is hilarious yet extremely sad.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 3:53:32 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
JSF: You told me I didn’t know anything about the topic, yet the person I was criticizing later in the day said she had misspoken. Seems that’s an indication I might have had a slight bit of insight into the situation upon which I was commenting. And, yes, your snarky comments often come off, at least to me, as though you are feeling very superior about yourself and your level of expertise. You could have said you disagreed with my assessment without impugning my integrity and implying I was doing some great disservice to humanity by questioning this particular statistic. BLSS, a few posts earlier, disagreed with me in an agreeable manner. It’s possible, even, on BA to have respectful disagreements.


You keep insisting on this. I said I don't know anything, you say I've been coming off like I know a lot. I mean, I really don't know what else there is to do with that. I feel superior about nothing; I was talking just last week about killing myself. I wasn't even being snarky. I was being direct.

And I will attack your integrity if I think you're being irresponsible. That the statistic was clarified (and not completely withdrawn) is an indication of their integrity and not yours. You still haven't shown that you actually have any knowledge or insight here that's valuable, just moaning that I've been mean to you. You don't have any problem making it personal to me; you shouldn't have any problem when it comes back at you.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 9:23:43 PM 
JSF wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
JSF: You told me I didn’t know anything about the topic, yet the person I was criticizing later in the day said she had misspoken. Seems that’s an indication I might have had a slight bit of insight into the situation upon which I was commenting. And, yes, your snarky comments often come off, at least to me, as though you are feeling very superior about yourself and your level of expertise. You could have said you disagreed with my assessment without impugning my integrity and implying I was doing some great disservice to humanity by questioning this particular statistic. BLSS, a few posts earlier, disagreed with me in an agreeable manner. It’s possible, even, on BA to have respectful disagreements.


You keep insisting on this. I said I don't know anything, you say I've been coming off like I know a lot. I mean, I really don't know what else there is to do with that. I feel superior about nothing; I was talking just last week about killing myself. I wasn't even being snarky. I was being direct.

And I will attack your integrity if I think you're being irresponsible. That the statistic was clarified (and not completely withdrawn) is an indication of their integrity and not yours. You still haven't shown that you actually have any knowledge or insight here that's valuable, just moaning that I've been mean to you. You don't have any problem making it personal to me; you shouldn't have any problem when it comes back at you.


Okay, you think I have no integrity. I can handle that. I’m not happy about, but I can take it.

What really disturbs me is your confessed depression. PLEASE SEE A DOCTOR OR MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL, as soon as possible. There are effective treatments for depression. I’ve suffered from it myself in the past. I’ll be praying for your recovery.

Last Edited: 3/14/2020 9:27:04 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 10:03:01 PM 
CSU’s women’s coach is positive, please pray for the coach and his players.
https://www.cleveland.com/coronavirus/2020/03/cleveland-s...

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 10:20:06 PM 
allen wrote:
CSU’s women’s coach is positive, please pray for the coach and his players.
https://www.cleveland.com/coronavirus/2020/03/cleveland-s...


And a much older crowd attends women’s games then men’s especially at our place
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 11:32:21 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Okay, you think I have no integrity. I can handle that. I’m not happy about, but I can take it.


I think you have integrity, which is why I criticized you. If I thought otherwise, I wouldn't bother.

For the record, the only thing I assume to know more about than you is planning a Disney World vacation.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 11:42:23 PM 
JSF wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Okay, you think I have no integrity. I can handle that. I’m not happy about, but I can take it.


I think you have integrity, which is why I criticized you. If I thought otherwise, I wouldn't bother.

For the record, the only thing I assume to know more about than you is planning a Disney World vacation.


Disney has free shuttles 😎
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 11:42:33 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
JSF wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Okay, you think I have no integrity. I can handle that. I’m not happy about, but I can take it.


I think you have integrity, which is why I criticized you. If I thought otherwise, I wouldn't bother.

For the record, the only thing I assume to know more about than you is planning a Disney World vacation.


Disney has free shuttles 😎


No clue how I did that 🙄

Last Edited: 3/14/2020 11:42:59 PM by BillyTheCat
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 12:12:22 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...We have literally no idea how many people have this virus in the US. There's no reliable way to get tested. We just don't know. Part of the point I'm making is that while you feel it's reckless when people estimate large numbers, I think it's equally reckless to continue to insist the number of confirmed cases is at all representative given that the US fell flat on our face implementing testing infrastructure.

We don't know much of anything right now. As a result, there are going to be people whose estimates are way too high and people whose estimates are way too low.
...

False. Even in the absence of testing, health professionals with access to the data can estimate the number of cases. We know from Wuhan that, if you can't do the test, you can diagnose it clinically. The accuracy may be lower, but it isn't going to be a WAG. Depending on the data you use, somewhere between 2-15% of cases require hospitalization, and about a third of those require an ICU bed.

How is the incidence this year of viral pneumonia this year in Ohio? Are there an extra 10,000 cases more than other years? If so, the 100,000 guess may be close. If not, it can't possibly be close. Even if we just use the S. Korea numbers, 2% of the patients either die or require hospitalization, and I could understand using those numbers. Even then, if 100,000 cases exist in Ohio, there would have to be 1,000 extra patients in the hospital with viral pneumonia, and and en extra 1,000 deaths from pneumonia so far.

Furthermore, if there are 100,000 cases already, it's far too late to contain it. It will double every 3-6 days, based on the rate of spread elsewhere. The result will be that, using S. Korea numbers, if there are 1,000 extra people in the hospitals today, in about 11 days there will be 10,000 extra, and in another 11 there will 100,000 extra, and by tax day there will be 1,000,000 extra people in Ohio hospitals

Note: Perhaps Dewine meant to project that there will be 100,000 cases by April 15th, and not that they are here now. This virus is no joke, and is dangerous. It can spread, it can put you in the hospital with pneumonia, and if the hospital system gets overwhelmed, the death rate can get closer to 10% than to 1%. In Italy it is currently running 7%. Preventative action is justified. But, to say that the health director can't know anything, even without tests, is quite simply wrong, because the heath director presumably has access to data on hospital and ICU utilization.

Last Edited: 3/15/2020 12:52:53 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 9:35:20 AM 
I really don't care about any of this now. JSF said that he had talked about killing himself last week. He needs professional help. That's all that's important to me right now, not who is getting more debating points on BA.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 11:31:01 AM 
It appears that the European travel ban may have had the exact opposite effect it was intended to have. Reports all over Twitter this morning of long, long waits for luggage and customs at major airports. 7 hour waits total at O'Hare, for instance.

So that means thousands of people who were just in high-risk countries waiting side by side for 7 hours at a time.

Not ideal.
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El Gato Roberto
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 12:42:16 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It appears that the European travel ban may have had the exact opposite effect it was intended to have. Reports all over Twitter this morning of long, long waits for luggage and customs at major airports. 7 hour waits total at O'Hare, for instance.

So that means thousands of people who were just in high-risk countries waiting side by side for 7 hours at a time.

Not ideal.


Truly it’s a mess, but there will be opportunities to decide who is at fault after we get through the crisis. It is time to come together, flatten the curve and protect our fellow citizens. I read a tweet from Newt Gingrich, who now lives in Italy, calling for a “WWII-like” effort by all Americans to address what lies ahead. Grim words from one who is living through the pandemic in Italy.

"The name's Ohio University, but everybody calls me Ohio. Any of you guys call me Ohio U, and I'll kill you."
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 1:38:51 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It appears that the European travel ban may have had the exact opposite effect it was intended to have. Reports all over Twitter this morning of long, long waits for luggage and customs at major airports. 7 hour waits total at O'Hare, for instance.

So that means thousands of people who were just in high-risk countries waiting side by side for 7 hours at a time.

Not ideal.


Sorta like DeWine claiming 100k cases of "unknown" infected roaming the streets of Ohio - instantly causing panic in the general population, which immediately resulted in people rushing to the grocery stores and standing in Costco lines for 3+ hours - in direct contact and proximity with hundreds (plural) of their closest community friends.

Not ideal is right.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 1:44:01 PM 
El Gato Roberto wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It appears that the European travel ban may have had the exact opposite effect it was intended to have. Reports all over Twitter this morning of long, long waits for luggage and customs at major airports. 7 hour waits total at O'Hare, for instance.

So that means thousands of people who were just in high-risk countries waiting side by side for 7 hours at a time.

Not ideal.


Truly it’s a mess, but there will be opportunities to decide who is at fault after we get through the crisis. It is time to come together, flatten the curve and protect our fellow citizens. I read a tweet from Newt Gingrich, who now lives in Italy, calling for a “WWII-like” effort by all Americans to address what lies ahead. Grim words from one who is living through the pandemic in Italy.


Yep, agreed. Plenty of time to figure out who is to blame for the airport mess. Additional reports make clear that there was a special line for those already diagnosed with Covid 19. It was right next to the line for those without, and no additional steps were required of diagnosed travelers. They were simply allowed to re-enter the country and go on their way.


Meanwhile, this morning Trump is tweeting about Hillary Clinton's emails and pardoning Michael Flynn. Trump literally stood up at a press conference and said he "takes no responsibility for this." A+ leadership.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 3:10:52 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Sorta like DeWine claiming 100k cases of "unknown" infected roaming the streets of Ohio - instantly causing panic in the general population, which immediately resulted in people rushing to the grocery stores and standing in Costco lines for 3+ hours - in direct contact and proximity with hundreds (plural) of their closest community friends.

Not ideal is right.

In fairness, the same buying panic happened all over the country, not just in Ohio, so it's not clear that Dewine's statement changed anything. It isn't impossible that that there are large numbers of cases, either. COVID19 is very invisible in the early days. It progresses through 4 stages:
1. Virusemia: targets the epithelial cells. For the first 4 to 9 days, it just looks like a cold. The initial symptoms are a runny nose and a sore throat, and this phase lasts 7-9 days. During this phase it begins to do very deep damage to your lymphocytes, breaking down your immune system. You may get a temperature, but it will be very slight during this phase.
2. From day 9 to 14, it starts to form pneumonia, both bacterial and viral (bacteria are always present in our lungs, but our immune system keeps them under control).
3. Pulmonary edema, and the patient can only be kept alive by a mechanical ventilator.
4. Growth of Pseudomonas aeruginosa, a fungi, in the lungs

Even if you recover, within a year you may develop fibrosis in the lungs, a thickening of the lungs resulting in diminished lung capacity.

Sadly, about 4 days ago I came down with a cold, which I almost never do. Hopefully it is just a cold.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 3:23:31 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It appears that the European travel ban may have had the exact opposite effect it was intended to have. Reports all over Twitter this morning of long, long waits for luggage and customs at major airports. 7 hour waits total at O'Hare, for instance.

So that means thousands of people who were just in high-risk countries waiting side by side for 7 hours at a time.

Not ideal.


Sorta like DeWine claiming 100k cases of "unknown" infected roaming the streets of Ohio - instantly causing panic in the general population, which immediately resulted in people rushing to the grocery stores and standing in Costco lines for 3+ hours - in direct contact and proximity with hundreds (plural) of their closest community friends.

Not ideal is right.



I'm stuck in a hotel in Virginia right now. It's directly across the way from a large grocery store, which I can see from my window. There are lines of cars to get in. I've been in this hotel for 5 days; this is the first day that's the case. People are are doing this all over the country. Blaming it on DeWine seems like a stretch. Part of self-isolating for an extended period is about having the food necessary to do so. Not sure this, or the airport mess was avoidable.

That being said, which organization do you think should be better prepared to handle the outbreak of a virus? US Customs and Border Patrol? Or Kroger?

Last Edited: 3/15/2020 3:29:23 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 4:09:50 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
I really don't care about any of this now. JSF said that he had talked about killing himself last week. He needs professional help. That's all that's important to me right now, not who is getting more debating points on BA.


I wrote an essay about it.

https://www.facebook.com/jeffreyscottfitzwater/posts/1010...

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 4:39:28 PM 
LOL now DeWine just mandatory closed all restaurants and bars starting tonight at 9PM. *shakes head*. Apparently the government telling people to stay home isn't enough control for this guy, the government knows better than we do so they have to ENFORCE it. And single-handedly kill a whole swath and segment of small businesses in the process. What an amazing over-reach and abuse of government power.

Thank heavens President Trump had enough foresight to see these types of reactions coming and thus provide federal funding to small businesses impacted from COVID-19 hysteria (not that he should have to).

DeWine literally just said "I'm making tough decisions because this is a life or death situation". Really? Because of the flu. A really serious, easily spreadable, and bad flu. But the flu. With a mortality rate estimated less than 1% (especially for those under 80, or non high risk as a function of all those who actually get it - not the smaller number of more severe cases actually tested and confirmed).

More people are going to get infected this week and test positive - because that's how viruses and communicable diseases work. It's completely normal. As those numbers get higher, based on his actions so far - and the fact both Ohio and many counties in Ohio have declared states of emergency - how many of us will be surprised when this clown announces mandatory isolation in our homes which will be enforced by armed police? Our constitution couldn't possibly allow that - except in cases of emergency it actually does.

I'll say again, taking this virus seriously is prudent. That means washing your hands. Stay home if you're sick. Not allowing travel to/from areas with high concentrations of sick (China/Italy/Europe/Washington state etc). Normal, common-sense every day solutions to minimize it's spread and "flatten the curve". It does NOT mean a full government take-over of our society like communist China imposed and artificially killing our economy to score political points because of 41 people confirmed sick. FORTY ONE in Ohio as of 2pm today. I've had more people than that at my home for OU watch parties.

I shudder to think what measures DeWhiner will enact once a handful of Ohioans die or the number of cases actually gets in the hundreds, both of which WILL happen.

At least our local Dayton radio station had enough sense to cut away from this buffoon and switch to UD basketball replays.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 5:21:00 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
LOL now DeWine just mandatory closed all restaurants and bars starting tonight at 9PM. *shakes head*. Apparently the government telling people to stay home isn't enough control for this guy, the government knows better than we do so they have to ENFORCE it. And single-handedly kill a whole swath and segment of small businesses in the process. What an amazing over-reach and abuse of government power.

Thank heavens President Trump had enough foresight to see these types of reactions coming and thus provide federal funding to small businesses impacted from COVID-19 hysteria (not that he should have to).

DeWine literally just said "I'm making tough decisions because this is a life or death situation". Really? Because of the flu. A really serious, easily spreadable, and bad flu. But the flu. With a mortality rate estimated less than 1% (especially for those under 80, or non high risk as a function of all those who actually get it - not the smaller number of more severe cases actually tested and confirmed).

More people are going to get infected this week and test positive - because that's how viruses and communicable diseases work. It's completely normal. As those numbers get higher, based on his actions so far - and the fact both Ohio and many counties in Ohio have declared states of emergency - how many of us will be surprised when this clown announces mandatory isolation in our homes which will be enforced by armed police? Our constitution couldn't possibly allow that - except in cases of emergency it actually does.

I'll say again, taking this virus seriously is prudent. That means washing your hands. Stay home if you're sick. Not allowing travel to/from areas with high concentrations of sick (China/Italy/Europe/Washington state etc). Normal, common-sense every day solutions to minimize it's spread and "flatten the curve". It does NOT mean a full government take-over of our society like communist China imposed and artificially killing our economy to score political points because of 41 people confirmed sick. FORTY ONE in Ohio as of 2pm today. I've had more people than that at my home for OU watch parties.

I shudder to think what measures DeWhiner will enact once a handful of Ohioans die or the number of cases actually gets in the hundreds, both of which WILL happen.

At least our local Dayton radio station had enough sense to cut away from this buffoon and switch to UD basketball replays.


+1

The small businesses are going to be on the frying pan if this goes into Mother's Day. Personally we have a company meeting tomorrow to figure out our viability and war-game theories of survival as a company. This is not fun, and we could be very easily forced to sell.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 5:41:49 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
LOL now DeWine just mandatory closed all restaurants and bars starting tonight at 9PM. *shakes head*. Apparently the government telling people to stay home isn't enough control for this guy, the government knows better than we do so they have to ENFORCE it. And single-handedly kill a whole swath and segment of small businesses in the process. What an amazing over-reach and abuse of government power.

Thank heavens President Trump had enough foresight to see these types of reactions coming and thus provide federal funding to small businesses impacted from COVID-19 hysteria (not that he should have to).


So what you're saying is DeWine made a decision that will likely save lives and not impact people financially? What a rube.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 5:48:30 PM 
Let's be realistic about this: we're at a point where shut-downs are being deemed necessary specifically because we sat on our ass and did nothing for four weeks. Graf is willing to accuse everybody of acting to score political points except for Donald Trump, who is the person in all of this most guilty of ******* this situation up specifically because he feared the political ramifications of acknowledging the problem.

He gave away four weeks of response time insisting this wasn't a problem. We're here because of him.

You can try and blame everybody else all you want and insist the difficult decisions being made are responsible for the economic collapse, but our leadership got us to this point. Pretending anything but is willful ignorance. If you're unwilling to acknowledge that, you don't get to accuse others of trying to "score political points" because it proves just how blindly political you're being about this whole thing.

What alternative to this are you all suggesting, exactly? It seems like you all's stance is essentially "let's just deal with the sicknesses because economic well-being is more important." I can see that view, even if I don't agree with it.

But from everything I read on this -- and from the decisions made willingly by the private sector in the face of those facts, it seems like our healthcare system can't actually deal with such a high level of sicknesses simultaneously. There are very real scenarios -- maybe not the most likely scenarios, but statistically viable scenarios -- in which the US healthcare system ends up so taxed that the death toll ends up very high. Do we just accept that as a possibility because of the economic strain social distancing creates?

Surely the richest country on earth doesn't have to choose between letting a deadly virus sweep through the country unchecked and economic collapse.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 6:12:21 PM 
JSF wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
LOL now DeWine just mandatory closed all restaurants and bars starting tonight at 9PM. *shakes head*. Apparently the government telling people to stay home isn't enough control for this guy, the government knows better than we do so they have to ENFORCE it. And single-handedly kill a whole swath and segment of small businesses in the process. What an amazing over-reach and abuse of government power.

Thank heavens President Trump had enough foresight to see these types of reactions coming and thus provide federal funding to small businesses impacted from COVID-19 hysteria (not that he should have to).


So what you're saying is DeWine made a decision that will likely save lives and not impact people financially? What a rube.


Shutting down businesses WILL impact people financially .

Government help or not,some businesses will not survive being forced to close
for several weeks.

I own a small (10 employees) civil engineering firm.

If I have to close,like we did after Sandy,they don't get paid,till unemployment kicks in.

I'm 66 and have been thinking about retiring in the next year of so.

This could have me just "pull the plug" now.

Plus,what about people who live on tips.
They can't collect much unemployment.

I agree with Graff.
This an overreach.

What's next ?
Declare a "state of emergency " for "climate change" and ban all cars ?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 6:20:41 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


Shutting down businesses WILL impact people financially .

Government help or not,some businesses will not survive being forced to close
for several weeks.

I own a small (10 employees) civil engineering firm.

If I have to close,like we did after Sandy,they don't get paid,till unemployment kicks in.

I'm 66 and have been thinking about retiring in the next year of so.

This could have me just "pull the plug" now.

Plus,what about people who live on tips.
They can't collect much unemployment.

I agree with Graff.
This an overreach.

What's next ?
Declare a "state of emergency " for "climate change" and ban all cars ?



You're explaining exactly why we need a more rubust social safety net. I, too, employ people. I have 30 employees internally, and another 1700 contracted out to clients. Because of the contracted employees, my company doesn't qualify for any of the aid provided by the House bill because we're considered a large employer. Running payroll's going to be extremely difficult for the next 45 days. If this last 6 months, I suspect we'll go out of business.

The question I have is why it's up to businesses to provide health insurance, pay into the unemployment pool, pay for sick leave and PTO. What's a government for if not to keep people solvent in times like these? It's a sad state of affairs when we can't deal with the outbreak of a virus because the government of the richest country on earth can't keep people housed and fed in the event of an emergency.


Last Edited: 3/15/2020 6:22:35 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we don’t. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/15/2020 6:35:41 PM 
L.C. wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Sorta like DeWine claiming 100k cases of "unknown" infected roaming the streets of Ohio - instantly causing panic in the general population, which immediately resulted in people rushing to the grocery stores and standing in Costco lines for 3+ hours - in direct contact and proximity with hundreds (plural) of their closest community friends.

Not ideal is right.

In fairness, the same buying panic happened all over the country, not just in Ohio, so it's not clear that Dewine's statement changed anything. It isn't impossible that that there are large numbers of cases, either. COVID19 is very invisible in the early days. It progresses through 4 stages:
1. Virusemia: targets the epithelial cells. For the first 4 to 9 days, it just looks like a cold. The initial symptoms are a runny nose and a sore throat, and this phase lasts 7-9 days. During this phase it begins to do very deep damage to your lymphocytes, breaking down your immune system. You may get a temperature, but it will be very slight during this phase.
2. From day 9 to 14, it starts to form pneumonia, both bacterial and viral (bacteria are always present in our lungs, but our immune system keeps them under control).
3. Pulmonary edema, and the patient can only be kept alive by a mechanical ventilator.
4. Growth of Pseudomonas aeruginosa, a fungi, in the lungs

Even if you recover, within a year you may develop fibrosis in the lungs, a thickening of the lungs resulting in diminished lung capacity.

Sadly, about 4 days ago I came down with a cold, which I almost never do. Hopefully it is just a cold.


Not to mention we’ve barely administered 100,000 test

And regardless of politics, there is no leadership when the Presidentbtakes 110% credit and has never been wrong by his own admission. Hillary’s inconsequential, she been investigated multiple times, she is out of the public spotlight, not running for office but he still gets mileage out of it.

As for Newt, he’s as conservative as they come, he’s living at a crisis center and seeing what this is doing in an area unprepared and slow to act. May want to heed his warnings.
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