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Topic:  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????

Topic:  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 9:00:56 AM 
I have been out spoken on this hire from day 1.
I agree that this was a safe hire for the AD.
However, JC has never won a NCAA Tournament game.
How did he do @ TCU in 4 years, he had a loosing record.
He didn't win 1 OOC road game this year.
My belief is his mentality is all about the conference performance, not winning NCAA Tournament Games.
Now that Football & Basketball programs are once again on the national map I am not willing to take a step back.
I have a great deal of confidence in the Football program but not with Basketball.
I feel that all us fans will see what I feel will be that step back next year with Christian.
I hope I am wrong.




GO BOBCATS

Last Edited: 3/24/2013 9:01:36 AM by 71 BOBCAT

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 9:07:09 AM 
GT Forevet wrote:
Just wanted to throw this out there... Wasn't the point of Jimmy 'Smarter than Bobcat Nation' Schauss hiring a head coach like JC over someone that we all wanted like Jeff Boals to maximize our senior-laden, NCAA-tournament-tested roster? I seem to think that was the rationale, just wanted to throw that out there to the masses.


FearLeon wrote:
Still having trouble why so many are excited about sharing a MAC title with a team that we lost to not once..not twice..but three times. Sorry guys, but this co-championship thing is inflated and overrated at best. Next time I go to the Convo, I'll be staring at the 2012 Sweet 16 banner,not the 2013 Co-MAC champs banner. 


JerseyArnie wrote:
Yes, the co league title was nice, but it sure lonely when everyone is at the Big Dance on Friday and you are home alone.


Hilarious.  It's like ordering off a dinner menu in some people's views.  "let's see...the first MAC regular season championship team in 19 years sounds nice...but I think I'll have the mediocre MAC team with the Sweet Sixteen run".

If only it were that easy. 
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LongDistancebobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 9:07:56 AM 
I'm not sure I understand this thought process.  Do you really believe that when it then comes to the tourney that JC just shuts down?  Does he not work as hard?  Does he not try to win those games?  Last year at TCU when he beat 3 teams in the top 25 during the regular season, did he then think tat was enough and he was done?  Does he get stupid at the end of the year?  My guess would be that he approaches every game the same way;  I think he doesn't accept lapses during the regular season, which you would call focusing on the regular season.  Does he then accept lapses in the post season?  I need this explained to me.
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Bobcat110alum
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 9:27:46 AM 
LongDistancebobcat wrote:
I'm not sure I understand this thought process.  Do you really believe that when it then comes to the tourney that JC just shuts down?  Does he not work as hard?  Does he not try to win those games?  Last year at TCU when he beat 3 teams in the top 25 during the regular season, did he then think tat was enough and he was done?  Does he get stupid at the end of the year?  My guess would be that he approaches every game the same way;  I think he doesn't accept lapses during the regular season, which you would call focusing on the regular season.  Does he then accept lapses in the post season?  I need this explained to me.


There is no explanation for this thought process. It's called lack of patience. 


B.S. Journalism, 2012.

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 9:49:13 AM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
However, JC has never won a NCAA Tournament game.


Look around....no current MAC coach has won an NCAA tournament game....if they do, they move on...they don't come to the MAC.  A MAC coach gets lucky, wins an NCAA game or two and then cashes it in.  Geno Ford never even made it to the NCAA tournament with Kent and he moved on.......... to Bradley.   Kent Salary=$300,000...Bradley Salary=$700,000.  We don't compete with salaries of average MVC or Atlantic-10 teams and are no where near the $1,000,000+ paid to the Gonzaga, Butler and VCU coaches.  People want a Porsche when we have a budget for a Kia. 

Solich hasn't even won a MAC championship..yet hardly receives the outcry as on JC.
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 11:10:53 AM 
Bobcat 110.....
Like me you too make some valid points.
The real question is are we willing to accept something less than NCAA appearances each year?
Have we have taken the stance that any good coach that is moving up uses a mid-major to school as a stepping stone? I don't disagree here.
Maybe, just maybe, we need to go in the direction that a previous AD did with the Solich hire.
I believe we would all agree that was a great hire.
Our BB program was never as bad as the FB program has been.
Thoughts?



GO BOBCATS

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 12:50:14 PM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
Bobcat 110.....
Like me you too make some valid points.
The real question is are we willing to accept something less than NCAA appearances each year?
Have we have taken the stance that any good coach that is moving up uses a mid-major to school as a stepping stone? I don't disagree here.
Maybe, just maybe, we need to go in the direction that a previous AD did with the Solich hire.
I believe we would all agree that was a great hire.
Our BB program was never as bad as the FB program has been.
Thoughts?



GO BOBCATS



We've appeared in the NCAA tournament 13 times in the 53 years since 1960. Since 1990, we've been 4 times. Why is it that people here seem to think that we've suddenly earned the right to be an NCAA tournament team every year, and anything less is failure? Dayton, who unquestionably has a better program than we do, didn't make the tournament this year and has only made 4 appearances since 2000. Georgia Tech has been 5 times since 2000. Maryland, a recent national champion, hasn't been in 3 years. Virginia has been 3 times since 2000. Programs like Vanderbilt, Purdue, Iowa, Arizona State, Stanford, USC, Utah, Washington, St. Johns, Providence, UNLV, Wake Forest, Temple, and St. Joes don't even have expectations of an NCAA tournament every year. Instead, they expect to field competitive teams who are in the running regularly and are competitive within their conference. We're not even close to a point where it's reasonably to expect an NCAA tournament appearance every year, and setting that standard (and holding coaches and players to that standard) would be a disservice to the program, and ultimately be counter productive to growth.

As for your Solich point, I'm not entirely clear what you mean. Solich is a really unique case because he's a guy who had success at the highest levels of college football and was unfairly let go, and seemed to be looking for a situation where he could settle down and build a program with less pressure than he faced at Nebraska. He looked seriously at the Army job, and ultimately took the Ohio job and has done a great job and hasn't shown any interest in other programs (though, in fairness, due to his age it's not like big programs have come knocking much). So if you're proposing we go and find a formerly top-flight coach who wants to spend the rest of his career in Athens, sure, that's a good idea in theory. But who is that, and how do you find him? You can't just snap your fingers and make that person appear.

 And lastly, I sort of think Jim Christian is a Solich hire. He's a guy that's been very successful in the MAC, and left a Big 12 team to come to Athens because he felt it was a better situation for him and a situation that he saw himself in longterm. I'm not convinced that an NCAA run in the next couple of years results in Christian accepting an offer at Iowa or wherever. I think he's our coach for a long time to come, and I think that continuity will go a very long way towards putting us where we all want to be. 
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Bobcat110alum
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 1:05:21 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
71 BOBCAT wrote:
Bobcat 110.....
Like me you too make some valid points.
The real question is are we willing to accept something less than NCAA appearances each year?
Have we have taken the stance that any good coach that is moving up uses a mid-major to school as a stepping stone? I don't disagree here.
Maybe, just maybe, we need to go in the direction that a previous AD did with the Solich hire.
I believe we would all agree that was a great hire.
Our BB program was never as bad as the FB program has been.
Thoughts?



GO BOBCATS



We've appeared in the NCAA tournament 13 times in the 53 years since 1960. Since 1990, we've been 4 times. Why is it that people here seem to think that we've suddenly earned the right to be an NCAA tournament team every year, and anything less is failure? Dayton, who unquestionably has a better program than we do, didn't make the tournament this year and has only made 4 appearances since 2000. Georgia Tech has been 5 times since 2000. Maryland, a recent national champion, hasn't been in 3 years. Virginia has been 3 times since 2000. Programs like Vanderbilt, Purdue, Iowa, Arizona State, Stanford, USC, Utah, Washington, St. Johns, Providence, UNLV, Wake Forest, Temple, and St. Joes don't even have expectations of an NCAA tournament every year. Instead, they expect to field competitive teams who are in the running regularly and are competitive within their conference. We're not even close to a point where it's reasonably to expect an NCAA tournament appearance every year, and setting that standard (and holding coaches and players to that standard) would be a disservice to the program, and ultimately be counter productive to growth.

As for your Solich point, I'm not entirely clear what you mean. Solich is a really unique case because he's a guy who had success at the highest levels of college football and was unfairly let go, and seemed to be looking for a situation where he could settle down and build a program with less pressure than he faced at Nebraska. He looked seriously at the Army job, and ultimately took the Ohio job and has done a great job and hasn't shown any interest in other programs (though, in fairness, due to his age it's not like big programs have come knocking much). So if you're proposing we go and find a formerly top-flight coach who wants to spend the rest of his career in Athens, sure, that's a good idea in theory. But who is that, and how do you find him? You can't just snap your fingers and make that person appear.

 And lastly, I sort of think Jim Christian is a Solich hire. He's a guy that's been very successful in the MAC, and left a Big 12 team to come to Athens because he felt it was a better situation for him and a situation that he saw himself in longterm. I'm not convinced that an NCAA run in the next couple of years results in Christian accepting an offer at Iowa or wherever. I think he's our coach for a long time to come, and I think that continuity will go a very long way towards putting us where we all want to be. 


THANK YOU.


B.S. Journalism, 2012.

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 1:20:13 PM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
Bobcat 110.....
Like me you too make some valid points.
The real question is are we willing to accept something less than NCAA appearances each year?
Have we have taken the stance that any good coach that is moving up uses a mid-major to school as a stepping stone? I don't disagree here.
Maybe, just maybe, we need to go in the direction that a previous AD did with the Solich hire.
I believe we would all agree that was a great hire.
Our BB program was never as bad as the FB program has been.
Thoughts?



I personally don't see the difference here.  Maybe...just maybe, we did go in the same direction? Two coaches that have coached at the major level and bring previous successes, failures,experiences, resources and knowledge to the table.  Two coaches who have already seen the bigger dollars of the big programs and would rather coach for our program than blaze a path through us to their next big paycheck.    We have a basketball coach who has 3 more MAC championships than Solich, but Solich is a great hire and J.C. is a bad hire.  People complain that J.C. may be coaching to win the MAC, not the big games. What's Solich doing?  He takes one BCS game a year and the rest are setup for wins to get bowl eligible and ready for MAC play.  When's the last time a BCS football team has even been in Athens? Pitt eight years ago?  We don't even get to play BCS teams in the postseason for football.

Unless you can come up with $1,000,000+ a year, I think you're looking for a unicorn. 
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JerseyArnie
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 2:56:37 PM 
Bobcat110 wrote:
71 BOBCAT wrote:
Bobcat 110.....
Like me you too make some valid points.
The real question is are we willing to accept something less than NCAA appearances each year?
Have we have taken the stance that any good coach that is moving up uses a mid-major to school as a stepping stone? I don't disagree here.
Maybe, just maybe, we need to go in the direction that a previous AD did with the Solich hire.
I believe we would all agree that was a great hire.
Our BB program was never as bad as the FB program has been.
Thoughts?



I personally don't see the difference here.  Maybe...just maybe, we did go in the same direction? Two coaches that have coached at the major level and bring previous successes, failures,experiences, resources and knowledge to the table.  Two coaches who have already seen the bigger dollars of the big programs and would rather coach for our program than blaze a path through us to their next big paycheck.    We have a basketball coach who has 3 more MAC championships than Solich, but Solich is a great hire and J.C. is a bad hire.  People complain that J.C. may be coaching to win the MAC, not the big games. What's Solich doing?  He takes one BCS game a year and the rest are setup for wins to get bowl eligible and ready for MAC play.  When's the last time a BCS football team has even been in Athens? Pitt eight years ago?  We don't even get to play BCS teams in the postseason for football.



Unless you can come up with $1,000,000+ a year, I think you're looking for a unicorn. 





2 bowl game wins, and a win against Penn State at Penn State when it was one of the top sport stories last fall is quite impressive for Coach Solich.


Last Edited: 3/24/2013 2:58:45 PM by JerseyArnie

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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 3:47:29 PM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:

Maybe, just maybe, we need to go in the direction that a previous AD did with the Solich hire.
I believe we would all agree that was a great hire.
Our BB program was never as bad as the FB program has been.



Solich has won 0 MAC titles, so in college basketball terms that's a lot of NIT's and CBI's.
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/24/2013 4:50:49 PM 
JerseyArnie wrote:

2 bowl game wins, and a win against Penn State at Penn State when it was one of the top sport stories last fall is quite impressive for Coach Solich.


3-11 vs BCS teams

0-2 in MACC

2-3 in Bowl Games where you could do random polling on corner of Court and Union asking students to "Name the Bowl games Ohio has won and opponent they beat" and I bet most would have no idea.


Groce left us man.  What he did wasn't normal.  Finishing 9th in the MAC and running the conference tournament to get in to NCAA to pull one of the biggest upsets in tournament history isn't realistic.  Sucks...I know.  That rush is hard to get over.  Ball State thought they were going to the "next level" in late 80's.  Eastern Michigan, Miami in the 90's.  Kent was close a decade ago.  Akron fans have never even seen a NCAA win and they had their "next level" planned before the reality of a 46 point smack down.  They were convinced they were a Final Four team based on what Groce pulled off.   Maybe Christian hasn't gotten that signature NCAA win yet, but I don't see any reason he won't have that opportunity to get it and I don't see him leaving the day after he gets it.
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 8:35:35 AM 
There have been some real good points made here.
To me it almost appears that the majority on this board are fine if our BB program doesn't get to the NCAA Tournament on a regular basis.
We all complain when we don't win enough games or the coach seems "out of touch" or "not to our liking". But when it comes to tournament appearances we tend to lower our expecations. Isn't this a contradiction?
For those who mentioned Solich having not won a conference championship, yes you are correct. Has he turned a loosing program into a winning program, yes. Has he taken us to numerous bowl games, yes. Has he won numerous bowl game, yes. Do we now have a consistant winning program, yes.
Our basketball program was always the winningest sport on campus. JC inherited a great program.
Let's see what he does with what he has been handed!




GO BOBCATS
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 10:06:30 AM 
After one year, JC has one thing not many previous OHIO basketball coaches have not had after year one...he won a share of the Regular Season MAC Championship.  I'll take that as step one anyday.  As for all the other stuff in this thread,  the bottom line is year in and year out most MAC teams just do not have enough of the good players or seasoned coaches necessary to beat those top 25 programs consistently.  Winning one game in the Tourney is hard enough when you are always a 12-13 seed.  Going much further is a real stroke of luck, genious or miracle (Go FGCU).  We had that last year.  Not so much this year.  That's the reality of College hoops most years.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 10:29:04 AM 
JerseyArnie wrote:




2 bowl game wins, and a win against Penn State at Penn State when it was one of the top sport stories last fall is quite impressive for Coach Solich.




And you would have been (and probably were) screaming for him to be fired after his first couple of seasons and definitely after year four.   Hindsight is a wonderful goddess.
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KC Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 11:07:13 AM 
I have to admit, at the end of this season, I felt a sense of disappointment.  Had this team been a bad to middling team the previous year, this season would be considered a huge success.  But last year's miraculous run set the bar pretty high, realistically or not.  Most of us acknowledge Ivo and to some degree Nick and Walt regressed.  But unless we were at most practices or inside their heads, we really don't know the reasons.  Let's give JC a few years to bring in his people and implement his program before we pass judgement one way or another.

Last Edited: 3/25/2013 4:02:44 PM by KC Bobcat

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doubledribble
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 11:17:08 AM 
Bobcat 71.    Relax , and enjoy a 24 win season, and a chance to Dance in the Big Dance.  We were 20 minutes from that dream being realized.   We have a quality coach, and a quality guy guiding our ship.  Support our program in anyway that you can.  Buy tickets, send money !    With the parody in college basketball, especially at the mid-major level, there are going to be unexpected wins, and unexpected loses !!  It does not mean that we are entitled to go to the sweet 16, and it does not mean that we couldnt lose 5 or 6 conference games like Groce did !!!     Relax, and enjoy the realities of college basketball  !  
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 11:19:18 AM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
There have been some real good points made here.
To me it almost appears that the majority on this board are fine if our BB program doesn't get to the NCAA Tournament on a regular basis.


Really?  Who is this majority you speak of?  List me ten posters that would fall into this camp.  Note that "regularly" and "every year" are not synonyms.  I for one would love our team to get there every year.  But I am realistic to know that will not happen - especially in a perennial one bid league.  This program should compete for the league championship most every year, which puts us on the path to be in the Dance on a regular basis.  We have been in on a regular basis the past number of years, and I expect to be in a number of times over the next few years.  Contrary to your perception, I think the majority of the board would reflect this thinking.
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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 11:29:17 AM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
I have been out spoken on this hire from day 1.
I agree that this was a safe hire for the AD.
However, JC has never won a NCAA Tournament game.
How did he do @ TCU in 4 years, he had a loosing record.
He didn't win 1 OOC road game this year.
My belief is his mentality is all about the conference performance, not winning NCAA Tournament Games.
Now that Football & Basketball programs are once again on the national map I am not willing to take a step back.
I have a great deal of confidence in the Football program but not with Basketball.
I feel that all us fans will see what I feel will be that step back next year with Christian.
I hope I am wrong.




GO BOBCATS


How many NCAA wins does Keith Dambrot have?  Oh...none?  He must be a bum that can't coach, too!
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 11:33:51 AM 
doubledribble wrote:
    With the parody in college basketball, ......!  


wow

what is the chance of getting a pair of parody (s) in a pair of posts in a pair of seperate threads in place of a pair of intended parity (s) by a pair of posters one of which has double d's and the other with double 1's.....?




just havin fun and messin...don't get all caught up in it..


never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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JerseyArnie
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 12:41:20 PM 
OUVan wrote:
JerseyArnie wrote:




2 bowl game wins, and a win against Penn State at Penn State when it was one of the top sport stories last fall is quite impressive for Coach Solich.




And you would have been (and probably were) screaming for him to be fired after his first couple of seasons and definitely after year four.   Hindsight is a wonderful goddess.



Coach Solich has performed great!  I hope JC was watching the Illinois/Miami game last night to see what a kick a@@ defense should look like. Not the lame defense that was ours this season.

We battled. I asked them to play with courage. They played with a high level of courage," Groce said. "Their poise was tremendous. They were resilient."

This is a quote from last nights Illy game.  How many money games can you tell me,  were we worthy of this statement.
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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 1:52:25 PM 
JerseyArnie wrote:
OUVan wrote:
JerseyArnie wrote:




2 bowl game wins, and a win against Penn State at Penn State when it was one of the top sport stories last fall is quite impressive for Coach Solich.




And you would have been (and probably were) screaming for him to be fired after his first couple of seasons and definitely after year four.   Hindsight is a wonderful goddess.



Coach Solich has performed great!  I hope JC was watching the Illinois/Miami game last night to see what a kick a@@ defense should look like. Not the lame defense that was ours this season.

We battled. I asked them to play with courage. They played with a high level of courage," Groce said. "Their poise was tremendous. They were resilient."

This is a quote from last nights Illy game.  How many money games can you tell me,  were we worthy of this statement.


And how much of that should be put on the players and not all on the coach?
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 2:41:34 PM 
JerseyArnie wrote:
I hope JC was watching the Illinois/Miami game last night to see what a kick a@@ defense should look like. Not the lame defense that was ours this season.


45th in the country in defensive efficiency.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 3:02:15 PM 
Don't doubt that our defensive efficiency was that good numerically...but are you kidding me?  Our schedule strength was 184 according to Sagrin.  I figure if we get that number down to about 250 we could be #1 in defensive efficiency rating.  Would anybody really care about the number then?  I think, more than anything, our number says we played pretty good defense against a bunch of crappy MAC teams.  Wonder what the ratings were for Belmont, Memphi or OK?

On the other hand, the Ilini had a schedule strength of #4.  Do you really think you could compare their defensive number to ours and have an apples to apples comparison?  

Sometimes, it takes the "expertly trained eye" to know if a team is playing good defense (haha).
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: JC vs Boals - Next Level????
   Posted: 3/25/2013 4:42:07 PM 
JerseyArnie wrote:
OUVan wrote:
JerseyArnie wrote:




2 bowl game wins, and a win against Penn State at Penn State when it was one of the top sport stories last fall is quite impressive for Coach Solich.




And you would have been (and probably were) screaming for him to be fired after his first couple of seasons and definitely after year four.   Hindsight is a wonderful goddess.



Coach Solich has performed great!  I hope JC was watching the Illinois/Miami game last night to see what a kick a@@ defense should look like. Not the lame defense that was ours this season.

We battled. I asked them to play with courage. They played with a high level of courage," Groce said. "Their poise was tremendous. They were resilient."

This is a quote from last nights Illy game.  How many money games can you tell me,  were we worthy of this statement.


Marsha, Marsha, Marsha

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