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Topic:  RE: We Need to Follow Texas's Lead

Topic:  RE: We Need to Follow Texas's Lead
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 485

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  Message Not Read  RE: We Need to Follow Texas's Lead
   Posted: 4/9/2021 4:43:51 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:


If the university downsized and charged more but offered more perks that rich kids were willing to pay for you're in a space where OSU can't compete.



How is that not what Miami has been trying to do for 25 years to compete with OSU and has failed miserably at? If it wasn't for their Chicago pipeline, the disparity would be even more glaring. One study that was sent to me showed that of Ohio kids with an admission to both Miami and OSU and who choose one of the two schools, 90% choose OSU.

And what kind of amenities are we going to offer that OSU can't compete with? They have a 5 or 6 billion dollar endowment. As I noted above, they have a greater amount of aid to offer that they take a 12% advantage in tuition costs and stretch it to a 20% advantage in net cost over Ohio. We're not winning any merit aid contests with them for students they truly want. As for physical amenities, they've spent hundreds of millions keeping up with the Big Ten Joneses in luxury dorms, huge student unions and rec centers.

As someone else noted above, the race to compete with OSU is over. They dropped the big one on the rest of the system a long time ago, and I blame the previous administration (which btw benefited greatly from a favorable demographic window as far as enrollment goes) constantly pumping out the sunshine that we could overtake OSU for the unrealistic notion among many that it's a realistic goal. What the current administration needs to focus on is the realistic task of competing with Miami and Cincinnati for second place. Being the second public university choice in a large state is a pretty good place to be.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 2,020

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  Message Not Read  RE: We Need to Follow Texas's Lead
   Posted: 4/9/2021 4:59:53 PM 

OUPride wrote:

How is that not what Miami has been trying to do for 25 years to compete with OSU and has failed miserably at? If it wasn't for their Chicago pipeline, the disparity would be even more glaring. One study that was sent to me showed that of Ohio kids with an admission to both Miami and OSU and who choose one of the two schools, 90% choose OSU.


Miami may be failing to lure kids away from OSU, but they're outperforming us, no?

We're critical of the Chicago pipeline, but the Chicago pipeline creates revenue. We'd be pretty happy to have a reliable pipeline of out of state students pay full sticker price, right?



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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 485

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: We Need to Follow Texas's Lead
   Posted: 4/9/2021 5:13:21 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OUPride wrote:

How is that not what Miami has been trying to do for 25 years to compete with OSU and has failed miserably at? If it wasn't for their Chicago pipeline, the disparity would be even more glaring. One study that was sent to me showed that of Ohio kids with an admission to both Miami and OSU and who choose one of the two schools, 90% choose OSU.


Miami may be failing to lure kids away from OSU, but they're outperforming us, no?

We're critical of the Chicago pipeline, but the Chicago pipeline creates revenue. We'd be pretty happy to have a reliable pipeline of out of state students pay full sticker price, right?





Agreed. I've never been one to downplay the idea of attracting more out of state kids, and I think we're in a much better position to do it than UC which has yet to grow into a fully statewide institution much less a regional or national university.

My criticism of Miami's Chicago pipeline is that I think they're too dependent on it. They've never been able to come close to replicating it in the NE or West. And if it happens to dry up in a post-covid world, that puts them in a very, very precarious position of having to either magically come up with a lot of merit aid to lure kids away from OSU or significantly lower their expectations and replace the Chicago kids with kids from UC or Ohio.

Last Edited: 4/9/2021 5:14:38 PM by OUPride

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Club Hyatt
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,144

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  Message Not Read  RE: We Need to Follow Texas's Lead
   Posted: 4/9/2021 11:18:18 PM 
OUPride wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:


If the university downsized and charged more but offered more perks that rich kids were willing to pay for you're in a space where OSU can't compete.


How is that not what Miami has been trying to do for 25 years to compete with OSU and has failed miserably at? If it wasn't for their Chicago pipeline, the disparity would be even more glaring. One study that was sent to me showed that of Ohio kids with an admission to both Miami and OSU and who choose one of the two schools, 90% choose OSU.

And what kind of amenities are we going to offer that OSU can't compete with? They have a 5 or 6 billion dollar endowment. As I noted above, they have a greater amount of aid to offer that they take a 12% advantage in tuition costs and stretch it to a 20% advantage in net cost over Ohio. We're not winning any merit aid contests with them for students they truly want. As for physical amenities, they've spent hundreds of millions keeping up with the Big Ten Joneses in luxury dorms, huge student unions and rec centers.

As someone else noted above, the race to compete with OSU is over. They dropped the big one on the rest of the system a long time ago, and I blame the previous administration (which btw benefited greatly from a favorable demographic window as far as enrollment goes) constantly pumping out the sunshine that we could overtake OSU for the unrealistic notion among many that it's a realistic goal. What the current administration needs to focus on is the realistic task of competing with Miami and Cincinnati for second place. Being the second public university choice in a large state is a pretty good place to be.


Its one thing to be accepted to OSU. Its another to get accepted into your college of choice. That is another area OU can compete with is easier access to professional colleges than what more competitive schools allow.

OU has the walkability and more intimate setting OSU can't compete with. Charge more than Miami but throw in a class trip and top notch dining services. Include the student fee as part of the price.

Competing against Miami and privates with higher prices I'm thinking in terms of the hottelling effect. If OU is perceived as being equivalent than some of those customers (students) will attend. That is what I believe was happening in the 90's as what I was hearing was "anymore its OU and Miami" as the destination universities. The similarities between them drove that perception though Miami was always more difficult to get into.

Trying to go the route of undercutting OSU on price I don't believe would have the desired effect of attracting more students to make up for the price cut. OU would be going from very expensive to normally expensive. Students concerned about cost are starting at community colleges and going online to finish their degree.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Club Hyatt
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,144

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  Message Not Read  RE: We Need to Follow Texas's Lead
   Posted: 4/10/2021 12:06:01 AM 
OUPride wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OUPride wrote:

How is that not what Miami has been trying to do for 25 years to compete with OSU and has failed miserably at? If it wasn't for their Chicago pipeline, the disparity would be even more glaring. One study that was sent to me showed that of Ohio kids with an admission to both Miami and OSU and who choose one of the two schools, 90% choose OSU.


Miami may be failing to lure kids away from OSU, but they're outperforming us, no?

We're critical of the Chicago pipeline, but the Chicago pipeline creates revenue. We'd be pretty happy to have a reliable pipeline of out of state students pay full sticker price, right?


Agreed. I've never been one to downplay the idea of attracting more out of state kids, and I think we're in a much better position to do it than UC which has yet to grow into a fully statewide institution much less a regional or national university.

My criticism of Miami's Chicago pipeline is that I think they're too dependent on it. They've never been able to come close to replicating it in the NE or West. And if it happens to dry up in a post-covid world, that puts them in a very, very precarious position of having to either magically come up with a lot of merit aid to lure kids away from OSU or significantly lower their expectations and replace the Chicago kids with kids from UC or Ohio.


For out-of-state students UC has the advantage of location right next to two other states in Kentucky and Indiana.

Miami only has 62% of its class in the Top 25 percent. If that number was to drop by 5% and OU was to go up by 5% the two universities would be in a rough equilibrium. Its not farfetched that it could happen.

The new branding has just arrived "Forever Ohio"

Quote:
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At Ohio University, we believe that the college experience should deliver more than a diploma. We offer an experience that will stick with you for the rest of your life.

Without question, we take academics seriously. In fact, we are home to one of the most prestigious honors experiences in the nation and several highly-ranked academic programs. And, we have a laser focus on career success through internship and job placement programs as well as lifelong assistance from the most loyal and supportive alumni group on the planet.

We also like to have a little fun. Our students enjoy outdoor adventures in the adjacent national forest, 16 Division 1 athletic teams (including our conferenceís No. 1 Menís Basketball team!), and an incredible local food scene in Athens, the small but eclectic city that has been named the nationís No. 1 College Town and is home to our residential campus.

https://www.ohio.edu/forever



Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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OUPride
General User

Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 485

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: We Need to Follow Texas's Lead
   Posted: 4/10/2021 2:26:09 PM 
We'll just have to disagree because I'll never come around to the notion of turning Ohio into a Miami knock-off. A school that I consider to be a grossly overpriced safety school for rich douchebags and one that flies in the face of everything a public university should be.

One thing I will point out is that 62% top quarter figure is misleading and a function of Miami's student body skewing heavily affluent. They're taking a lot of kids who might not graduate in the top quarter of their class because they went to fiercely competitive high schools. When one looks at SAT/ACT scores, though, they're much closer to OSU than they are to us.
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