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Topic:  Another $100k

Topic:  Another $100k
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,454

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  Message Not Read  Another $100k
   Posted: 10/1/2020 9:14:50 PM 
This person gets another $100k bonus if she is still employed in 2023. She better be shitting gold coins If she’s this valuable in this economic climate!
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

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  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/2/2020 9:39:24 AM 
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,022

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/2/2020 10:39:47 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/2/2020 2:10:25 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.


Last Edited: 10/2/2020 2:11:36 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,022

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/2/2020 2:48:11 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.




I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/2/2020 5:16:09 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.




I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Unsure about OU, but have a friend who worked in the marketing department at the New School. Their success was measured by new student enrollment and particular objectives around that.
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,022

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/2/2020 7:25:59 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.




I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Unsure about OU, but have a friend who worked in the marketing department at the New School. Their success was measured by new student enrollment and particular objectives around that.


As it should be.

Last Edited: 10/2/2020 10:29:37 PM by Alan Swank
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,454

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/3/2020 12:24:51 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.




I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Here is what we know from a performance standpoint. Fact so far: stay 3 years get an extra $100k, stay another 3 years, get another $100k. Did Tom Boeh negotiate this?

If OHIO had given Brian Knorr a $100k bonus for staying 3 years, you guys would lose your mind. And her salary isn’t far off of Knorr’s

Last Edited: 10/3/2020 12:30:07 AM by BillyTheCat
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,454

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/3/2020 12:26:21 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.




I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Unsure about OU, but have a friend who worked in the marketing department at the New School. Their success was measured by new student enrollment and particular objectives around that.


Exactly and look at our enrollement during her tenure at Ohio. Your point?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/4/2020 4:20:38 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.




I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Unsure about OU, but have a friend who worked in the marketing department at the New School. Their success was measured by new student enrollment and particular objectives around that.


Exactly and look at our enrollement during her tenure at Ohio. Your point?


My point is that employees can and regularly do bring value that more than justifies their compensation. That's, you know, how business make money.

I don't know what this employee's core responsibilities are. I'm not suggesting she's in charge of enrollment, just used that as a simple example.

What's your point?
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,022

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/4/2020 5:57:58 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.






I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Unsure about OU, but have a friend who worked in the marketing department at the New School. Their success was measured by new student enrollment and particular objectives around that.


Exactly and look at our enrollement during her tenure at Ohio. Your point?


My point is that employees can and regularly do bring value that more than justifies their compensation. That's, you know, how business make money.

I don't know what this employee's core responsibilities are. I'm not suggesting she's in charge of enrollment, just used that as a simple example.

What's your point?


Thanks for clarifying. A simple read of the examples you gave led several of us to interpret that as something you were suggesting she could influence.

Here's a brief job description:

https://www.ohio.edu/finance-administration/vice-president
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/4/2020 6:38:33 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.






I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Unsure about OU, but have a friend who worked in the marketing department at the New School. Their success was measured by new student enrollment and particular objectives around that.


Exactly and look at our enrollement during her tenure at Ohio. Your point?


My point is that employees can and regularly do bring value that more than justifies their compensation. That's, you know, how business make money.

I don't know what this employee's core responsibilities are. I'm not suggesting she's in charge of enrollment, just used that as a simple example.

What's your point?


Thanks for clarifying. A simple read of the examples you gave led several of us to interpret that as something you were suggesting she could influence.

Here's a brief job description:

https://www.ohio.edu/finance-administration/vice-president


Fair enough. I'm still unclear what point folks are making. Do you genuinely not think it's possible for the head of finance to add value beyond her compensation?
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,454

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/4/2020 6:49:03 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.





I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Unsure about OU, but have a friend who worked in the marketing department at the New School. Their success was measured by new student enrollment and particular objectives around that.


Exactly and look at our enrollement during her tenure at Ohio. Your point?


My point is that employees can and regularly do bring value that more than justifies their compensation. That's, you know, how business make money.

I don't know what this employee's core responsibilities are. I'm not suggesting she's in charge of enrollment, just used that as a simple example.

What's your point?


Thanks for clarifying. A simple read of the examples you gave led several of us to interpret that as something you were suggesting she could influence.

Here's a brief job description:

https://www.ohio.edu/finance-administration/vice-president


Fair enough. I'm still unclear what point folks are making. Do you genuinely not think it's possible for the head of finance to add value beyond her compensation?


No can definitely add value! However, the University is still in a huge cycle of deficit, becoming still more top heavy. So to me, in my opinion the value of the position would be stopping the bleeding. However, from what is published and reported, these bonuses are longevity based and not performance based. To me, that’s a problem.
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Mike Johnson
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Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,706

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/4/2020 11:06:12 PM 
Does anyone know if the university's strategic plan includes objectives that are measurable? If such objectives are included, does anyone know if the university uses Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) to track progress on those objectives?

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,022

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/5/2020 9:30:34 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.






I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Unsure about OU, but have a friend who worked in the marketing department at the New School. Their success was measured by new student enrollment and particular objectives around that.


Exactly and look at our enrollement during her tenure at Ohio. Your point?


My point is that employees can and regularly do bring value that more than justifies their compensation. That's, you know, how business make money.

I don't know what this employee's core responsibilities are. I'm not suggesting she's in charge of enrollment, just used that as a simple example.

What's your point?


Thanks for clarifying. A simple read of the examples you gave led several of us to interpret that as something you were suggesting she could influence.

Here's a brief job description:

https://www.ohio.edu/finance-administration/vice-president


Fair enough. I'm still unclear what point folks are making. Do you genuinely not think it's possible for the head of finance to add value beyond her compensation?


I probably due think it's possible but can you better give examples of what that value would be and how you measure it? She's also in charge of adminstrative services.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/5/2020 11:11:49 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Or she just has to find a way to generate more value than the money she's being offered. That the consensus here seems to be that it's basically impossible for an OU employee to do so is a sad indictment on how people view the state of the university.


I wouldn't extend that to all OU employees. However, in this case, how can this employee find a way to generate more value? I'm asking all the business execs on this board.



One simple example: increase foreign and out-of-state enrollment. They pay more for the same product. That generates more value.

Another: make wise investment decisions around the endowment.






I wonder if she has performance benchmarks for your second point. I wonder if admissions has performance benchmarks for your first point after all it is a sales job.



Unsure about OU, but have a friend who worked in the marketing department at the New School. Their success was measured by new student enrollment and particular objectives around that.


Exactly and look at our enrollement during her tenure at Ohio. Your point?


My point is that employees can and regularly do bring value that more than justifies their compensation. That's, you know, how business make money.

I don't know what this employee's core responsibilities are. I'm not suggesting she's in charge of enrollment, just used that as a simple example.

What's your point?


Thanks for clarifying. A simple read of the examples you gave led several of us to interpret that as something you were suggesting she could influence.

Here's a brief job description:

https://www.ohio.edu/finance-administration/vice-president


Fair enough. I'm still unclear what point folks are making. Do you genuinely not think it's possible for the head of finance to add value beyond her compensation?


I probably due think it's possible but can you better give examples of what that value would be and how you measure it? She's also in charge of adminstrative services.



I have no idea what her job is and have no real way of knowing. In the other thread on this topic (why two are necessary, I don't know), here's what I said in response to a poster stating that nobody deserves a 100k bonus when people are being laid off:

"I don't see how we have enough context from our vantage point to know with any degree of certainty. We don't know what she's accomplished in the role, the scope of it, or what the market would pay her otherwise.

The optics are poor from a timing standpoint, but a whole bunch of the people complaining about this 100k are over on the football board insisting we spend several hundred thousand dollars on testing in order to play football. In other words, it's not about fiscal responsibility. It's more a reflection of one's perception of administrators."

And that continues to be my basic stance here. I don't know what this administrator is tasked with and have no way to judge how successful she's been in the role and therefore can't judge how appropriate her compensation package is.

A lot of people feel certain they can. I don't think they're making that decision based on specifics related to this employee, but rather based on existing bias against bloat in higher ed. I'd be very interested if people have more specifics to share, but until they do, I don't know how we're in any position to know much of anything.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/5/2020 11:49:34 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


Here is what we know from a performance standpoint. Fact so far: stay 3 years get an extra $100k, stay another 3 years, get another $100k. Did Tom Boeh negotiate this?

If OHIO had given Brian Knorr a $100k bonus for staying 3 years, you guys would lose your mind. And her salary isn’t far off of Knorr’s


Retention bonuses are commonly used by employers to ensure retention through critical cycles in which said employee's function's particularly valuable.

As I mentioned in one of these threads prior, having a strong finance team's absolutely essential to the continued success (if not the continued existence) of Ohio University. Right now in particular.

I have no way to know how successful this employee's been in her role, or how good she actually is. But I can certainly see the value continuity in finance operations offers, given the state of higher ed and the challenges OU is facing right now.

We're talking about an employee who (presumably) oversees a 758 million dollar annual operating budget and who, with this bonus, makes ~360k annually, before you factor in her 10% pay cut. For comparison's sake, here are base salaries in OSU's finance department (before any bonuses):

Chief Investment Officer -- 750k
VP of Finance and Business Admin -- 610k
VP of Operations/Admin -- 430,800k

Unless I have really compelling evidence that she isn't performing well, I don't see a ton of reason to get super bent out of shape about what amounts to 33k/year in comp.

I get that the timing and optics are poor.

But we also pay our football and basketball coaches more than any two employees, and don't, you know, have god football and basketball programs. From an optics standpoint, that seems far worse to me than paying your finance lead a bonus every 3 years.

Last Edited: 10/5/2020 12:56:47 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Campus Flow
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,952

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/5/2020 7:26:01 PM 
The football and basketball salaries send a signal to alumni OU is reasonably serious about athletics. The pay buys you more experience than the entry level D1 salaries do.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

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  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/5/2020 7:48:33 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
The football and basketball salaries send a signal to alumni OU is reasonably serious about athletics. The pay buys you more experience than the entry level D1 salaries do.


According to USNews, we rank 271st in alumni giving. Only 3.8% of alumni give a dime. Not sure that investment's paying off.

Edit: For comparison's sake, here's where a few other MAC schools fall:

Miami ranks 41st, 17.3% of alumni donate.
Buffalo ranks 90th, 11.3% of alumni donate.
BG ranks 224th, 5.1% of alumni donate.
WMU ranks 254th, 3.9% of alumni give.
Kent's tied with us.
NIU is a bit below at 3.5%.
Akron is at 3%.
EMU is at 1.8%

Last Edited: 10/5/2020 8:02:58 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,022

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/5/2020 8:27:03 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
The football and basketball salaries send a signal to alumni OU is reasonably serious about athletics. The pay buys you more experience than the entry level D1 salaries do.


According to USNews, we rank 271st in alumni giving. Only 3.8% of alumni give a dime. Not sure that investment's paying off.

Edit: For comparison's sake, here's where a few other MAC schools fall:

Miami ranks 41st, 17.3% of alumni donate.
Buffalo ranks 90th, 11.3% of alumni donate.
BG ranks 224th, 5.1% of alumni donate.
WMU ranks 254th, 3.9% of alumni give.
Kent's tied with us.
NIU is a bit below at 3.5%.
Akron is at 3%.
EMU is at 1.8%


Those darn facts just keep getting in the way. Maybe the gobbly gook coming out of Cutler is just that - gobbly gook.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,454

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/5/2020 8:44:55 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


Here is what we know from a performance standpoint. Fact so far: stay 3 years get an extra $100k, stay another 3 years, get another $100k. Did Tom Boeh negotiate this?

If OHIO had given Brian Knorr a $100k bonus for staying 3 years, you guys would lose your mind. And her salary isn’t far off of Knorr’s


Retention bonuses are commonly used by employers to ensure retention through critical cycles in which said employee's function's particularly valuable.

As I mentioned in one of these threads prior, having a strong finance team's absolutely essential to the continued success (if not the continued existence) of Ohio University. Right now in particular.

I have no way to know how successful this employee's been in her role, or how good she actually is. But I can certainly see the value continuity in finance operations offers, given the state of higher ed and the challenges OU is facing right now.

We're talking about an employee who (presumably) oversees a 758 million dollar annual operating budget and who, with this bonus, makes ~360k annually, before you factor in her 10% pay cut. For comparison's sake, here are base salaries in OSU's finance department (before any bonuses):

Chief Investment Officer -- 750k
VP of Finance and Business Admin -- 610k
VP of Operations/Admin -- 430,800k

Unless I have really compelling evidence that she isn't performing well, I don't see a ton of reason to get super bent out of shape about what amounts to 33k/year in comp.

I get that the timing and optics are poor.

But we also pay our football and basketball coaches more than any two employees, and don't, you know, have god football and basketball programs. From an optics standpoint, that seems far worse to me than paying your finance lead a bonus every 3 years.


Seriously, how can you compare OSU and their budget, size and academic stature to OHIO’s.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

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  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/5/2020 8:53:23 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


Here is what we know from a performance standpoint. Fact so far: stay 3 years get an extra $100k, stay another 3 years, get another $100k. Did Tom Boeh negotiate this?

If OHIO had given Brian Knorr a $100k bonus for staying 3 years, you guys would lose your mind. And her salary isn’t far off of Knorr’s


Retention bonuses are commonly used by employers to ensure retention through critical cycles in which said employee's function's particularly valuable.

As I mentioned in one of these threads prior, having a strong finance team's absolutely essential to the continued success (if not the continued existence) of Ohio University. Right now in particular.

I have no way to know how successful this employee's been in her role, or how good she actually is. But I can certainly see the value continuity in finance operations offers, given the state of higher ed and the challenges OU is facing right now.

We're talking about an employee who (presumably) oversees a 758 million dollar annual operating budget and who, with this bonus, makes ~360k annually, before you factor in her 10% pay cut. For comparison's sake, here are base salaries in OSU's finance department (before any bonuses):

Chief Investment Officer -- 750k
VP of Finance and Business Admin -- 610k
VP of Operations/Admin -- 430,800k

Unless I have really compelling evidence that she isn't performing well, I don't see a ton of reason to get super bent out of shape about what amounts to 33k/year in comp.

I get that the timing and optics are poor.

But we also pay our football and basketball coaches more than any two employees, and don't, you know, have god football and basketball programs. From an optics standpoint, that seems far worse to me than paying your finance lead a bonus every 3 years.


Seriously, how can you compare OSU and their budget, size and academic stature to OHIO’s.


I'm pointing out what well run Universities pay for similar roles, not suggesting we should pay the same. The point is that OSU clearly thinks paying well for these roles pays off.

Where as we think a 100k bonus on a three year timetable warrants pitchforks, because We can only afford to pay 600k to a football coach who doesn't win titles.

Last Edited: 10/5/2020 8:55:59 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,454

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  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/5/2020 9:14:47 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


Here is what we know from a performance standpoint. Fact so far: stay 3 years get an extra $100k, stay another 3 years, get another $100k. Did Tom Boeh negotiate this?

If OHIO had given Brian Knorr a $100k bonus for staying 3 years, you guys would lose your mind. And her salary isn’t far off of Knorr’s


Retention bonuses are commonly used by employers to ensure retention through critical cycles in which said employee's function's particularly valuable.

As I mentioned in one of these threads prior, having a strong finance team's absolutely essential to the continued success (if not the continued existence) of Ohio University. Right now in particular.

I have no way to know how successful this employee's been in her role, or how good she actually is. But I can certainly see the value continuity in finance operations offers, given the state of higher ed and the challenges OU is facing right now.

We're talking about an employee who (presumably) oversees a 758 million dollar annual operating budget and who, with this bonus, makes ~360k annually, before you factor in her 10% pay cut. For comparison's sake, here are base salaries in OSU's finance department (before any bonuses):

Chief Investment Officer -- 750k
VP of Finance and Business Admin -- 610k
VP of Operations/Admin -- 430,800k

Unless I have really compelling evidence that she isn't performing well, I don't see a ton of reason to get super bent out of shape about what amounts to 33k/year in comp.

I get that the timing and optics are poor.

But we also pay our football and basketball coaches more than any two employees, and don't, you know, have god football and basketball programs. From an optics standpoint, that seems far worse to me than paying your finance lead a bonus every 3 years.


Seriously, how can you compare OSU and their budget, size and academic stature to OHIO’s.


I'm pointing out what well run Universities pay for similar roles, not suggesting we should pay the same. The point is that OSU clearly thinks paying well for these roles pays off.

Where as we think a 100k bonus on a three year timetable warrants pitchforks, because We can only afford to pay 600k to a football coach who doesn't win titles.



Well run or not, you can’t compare one of the top research I universities in the nation to a Mid American Conference school. That’s like comparing Apple 🍎 to Billy Bob’s tech shop.
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OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

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  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/6/2020 12:21:45 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
The football and basketball salaries send a signal to alumni OU is reasonably serious about athletics. The pay buys you more experience than the entry level D1 salaries do.


According to USNews, we rank 271st in alumni giving. Only 3.8% of alumni give a dime. Not sure that investment's paying off.

Edit: For comparison's sake, here's where a few other MAC schools fall:

Miami ranks 41st, 17.3% of alumni donate.
Buffalo ranks 90th, 11.3% of alumni donate.
BG ranks 224th, 5.1% of alumni donate.
WMU ranks 254th, 3.9% of alumni give.
Kent's tied with us.
NIU is a bit below at 3.5%.
Akron is at 3%.
EMU is at 1.8%


It would be interesting to see the OHIO breakdown by college. I suspect, for instance, that a higher percentage of engineering graduates contributed compared to those in the College of Arts and Sciences. I could be entirely wrong, but that's my guess. Also, I suspect medical school graduates, once they get through residencies and into practice a few years, give at a higher rate. The actual data here would be very telling.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Mike Johnson
General User



Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,706

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Another $100k
   Posted: 10/6/2020 9:40:33 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
The football and basketball salaries send a signal to alumni OU is reasonably serious about athletics. The pay buys you more experience than the entry level D1 salaries do.


According to USNews, we rank 271st in alumni giving. Only 3.8% of alumni give a dime. Not sure that investment's paying off.

Edit: For comparison's sake, here's where a few other MAC schools fall:

Miami ranks 41st, 17.3% of alumni donate.
Buffalo ranks 90th, 11.3% of alumni donate.
BG ranks 224th, 5.1% of alumni donate.
WMU ranks 254th, 3.9% of alumni give.
Kent's tied with us.
NIU is a bit below at 3.5%.
Akron is at 3%.
EMU is at 1.8%


3.8% Surprisingly low in view - if my memory is correct - of Ohio's endowment being largest - by narrow margin over Miami - of Ohio MAC schools.

All of the above percentages suggest that relatively few alumni feel strongly enough about their college experiences to provide a measure of financial support.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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