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Topic:  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)

Topic:  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 11:17:55 AM 
. wrote:
I mean, they had to pull up some of the tarps in the upper GA to accommodate a bigger than normal crowd, but there were still hundreds of seats covered.


https://miamihawktalk.fans/t/ohio-men-at-miami-saturday-a...
https://miamihawktalk.fans/t/ohio-men-at-miami-saturday-a...

It looked really good on TV, but the still images I've seen show a lot of tarped sections and a smaller crowd than when they hosted UC a few years back. They're seriously kicking around a new arena and they're kinda proving they don't need anything bigger than 6,500.

Last Edited: 2/2/2025 11:19:30 AM by shabamon
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 11:31:03 AM 
"They have great players. They get in what's free agency. They get the best free agents in our league. They have an unbelievable coach who does a great job. I refer to John Groce as like Joe Torre. He is a great coach. They are undefeated.

"The regular season is basically over in my eyes. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe somebody makes a run at them. They play a different style than they did last year, but it is like the New York Yankees. We are playing for March and trying to get ourselves a seed "Their returning players [Nate Johnson, Tavari Johnson, junior Amani Lyles and seniors Shammah Scott and Evan Wilson] have gotten better," Senderoff said. "Their incoming players are monsters. To me, it is like playing the New York Yankees. They had [Derek] Jeter and they added A-Rod [Alex Rodriguez].

"Until the rest of the league is able to compete with them in recruiting and all of the other things, and they have a great coach, and they have got great assistant coaches. One of them, Dustin Ford, who I have known for a long time, somebody should be hiring him as a head coach in my opinion.[in the MAC Tournament]."

The above quotes are from Kent's coach Senderoff after the Zips beat Kent Friday. Senderoff is correct. The rest of the league is playing for seeds and the Zips are doing this without a good starter in Harris.

Last Edited: 2/2/2025 11:34:57 AM by Bobcat1996
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 11:49:03 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
It is all about getting in the top eight and that will not be difficult in this mediocre conference. Get to Cleveland is all that is required. However, for season ticket holders and fans attending weekly games, ending up no better than a three seed yearly for the highest paid league coach is not exactly getting your moneys worth!


"I know you still think it's September, but as much as you continue to harp on it, this isn't the football team.

Nobody gives a rip about regular season standings in basketball, unless you're in a multi-bid league.

3 days in Cleveland is it. Boals is 7-3 with a ship and an NCAA win when it counts."



Last time I checked, Boals like all coaches are getting paid for the entire season. If some of you don't care about anything other than three games in March, that is your business. Ohio should demand more than a three seed yearly for the highest paid coach in the league.

Last Edited: 2/2/2025 11:49:52 AM by Bobcat1996
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 12:38:12 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
It is all about getting in the top eight and that will not be difficult in this mediocre conference. Get to Cleveland is all that is required. However, for season ticket holders and fans attending weekly games, ending up no better than a three seed yearly for the highest paid league coach is not exactly getting your moneys worth!


"I know you still think it's September, but as much as you continue to harp on it, this isn't the football team.

Nobody gives a rip about regular season standings in basketball, unless you're in a multi-bid league.

3 days in Cleveland is it. Boals is 7-3 with a ship and an NCAA win when it counts."



Last time I checked, Boals like all coaches are getting paid for the entire season. If some of you don't care about anything other than three games in March, that is your business. Ohio should demand more than a three seed yearly for the highest paid coach in the league.


Could not agree more with your comment about three days in March. If that's really all it boils down to, why buy tickets to any other games. I say that from an economics standpoint, not as a fan since we got here in 1979 or as a season ticket holder from the day they reseated the arena through 2022 or 2023. Before anyone lambasts me for not continuing my season tickets, it's because I have three granddaughters here in town who play volleyball (school, club and Hocking Valley League), basketball (two on school and one in the Hocking Valley League), one runs track and the other is a gymnast. There are only so many evenings and Saturdays from November through March so it seemed silly to pay $500 for a single seat to attend a few games a year.

That said, and back to Akron, I was and continue to be a huge Groce fan starting with the summer before his first game here in Athens when he and his assistants showed up at the Green and White Club scramble and offered apologies for only being able to play 9 holes because they had a recruit coming in later that morning. It doesn't hurt that he has $700,000 NIL money. No way to verify this but I'd be surprised if we have one fourth of that.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 12:57:54 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Lots of negatives when it comes to Millet. A new one to add to the list is the statistician. EJ's second made FG was given to Evans; JP credited with 0 assists in the 1st half when I recall at least 2 passes setting up ohio baskets.

On the other hand, I do appreciate the home team's color commentator on ESPN+ informing the viewers that "Ohio wants to outscore miami today."


Second the statistician. ESPN still credits Evans with 2 points, 1-1 from field. So does ohiobobcats.com. I believe that's because the home team is the "official scorer", but that was definitely Elmore James's bucket and NOT Evans.

Does NCAA allow scoring changes post-game like MLB does? Can you request a review? I have no idea how to score this, because I know what's true, but that now doesn't match any historical box score.


Like you said, MLB will sometimes go back and change an official scorekeepers' decision later that night or the next day. They might change an error to a base hit, for example.

I've also wondered if this is a thing in college basketball. Elmore James hit 2 mid-range jumpers in the first half, but the second basket was credited to Evans for some reason. And I'm sure there were 1 or more assists by JP that were not recorded.

Maybe not the big deal I'm making it out, but it could be.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 1:03:07 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
It doesn't hurt that he has $700,000 NIL money. No way to verify this but I'd be surprised if we have one fourth of that.



That $700k didn't materialize out of thin air. Groce raised the money.

And raising money is now part of the job.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 1:34:46 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
It doesn't hurt that he has $700,000 NIL money. No way to verify this but I'd be surprised if we have one fourth of that.



That $700k didn't materialize out of thin air. Groce raised the money.

And raising money is now part of the job.


I could be dead wrong. I don’t see our NIL collective being anymore than $150,000-$200,000 currently.

Last Edited: 2/2/2025 10:47:01 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 1:35:45 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
It doesn't hurt that he has $700,000 NIL money. No way to verify this but I'd be surprised if we have one fourth of that.



That $700k didn't materialize out of thin air. Groce raised the money.

And raising money is now part of the job.


And given the choice, most donors to colleges and universities are much more likely to give to something that is sustainable or tangible such as an endowed fund for scholarships or programs or a building fund. I'd hate to be out there beating the bushes for money to pay a kid to play a sport, an "investment" that might not pan out or might be off to greener pastures next year.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 1:41:09 PM 
Groce did not raise the money. They have one guy who does this - Bud Wentz - who signs the checks.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 1:45:11 PM 
Bud Wentz also paid to create the Wentz practice court. Of course, they just took 2 courts from the student financed rec center and erected a partition. Can you imagine if we tried that half assed facility grab in Athens?
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 2:11:20 PM 
SBH wrote:
Bud Wentz also paid to create the Wentz practice court. Of course, they just took 2 courts from the student financed rec center and erected a partition. Can you imagine if we tried that half assed facility grab in Athens?


Unfortunately, we do a less than stellar job of sharing facilities here in the Athens community. For years, any kid who wanted to play basketball could go to Grover Center and play against some pretty good competition seven days a week for free. Believe it or not, there isn't a public gym in Athens where a kid can do that today.

When you consider that the Ping courts are pretty empty 20 weeks a year, it makes sense to allow those who want to use them on those days. I know this doesn't directly address the point you made but school buildings in general are grossly under utilized on an annual basis.

As for Wentz, it looks like he spreads his money around. My dad volunteered with this non-profit philanthropic organization for over 30 years.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/open-m_thank-you-bud-wentz...

Last Edited: 2/2/2025 2:14:44 PM by Alan Swank
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 2:18:50 PM 
Our basketball could have what Akron has if we abandon football like Akron has.
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 2:28:58 PM 
You think we could get their football stadium in a firesale, put it on a flatbed and haul it down 77 like one of those old farmhouses that get moved? Or would crossing the Ohio River on 50 twice be too cumbersome?
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 2:31:47 PM 
Or the guy who shipped London Bridge to Arizona.
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 2:40:22 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
It is all about getting in the top eight and that will not be difficult in this mediocre conference. Get to Cleveland is all that is required. However, for season ticket holders and fans attending weekly games, ending up no better than a three seed yearly for the highest paid league coach is not exactly getting your moneys worth!


"I know you still think it's September, but as much as you continue to harp on it, this isn't the football team.

Nobody gives a rip about regular season standings in basketball, unless you're in a multi-bid league.

3 days in Cleveland is it. Boals is 7-3 with a ship and an NCAA win when it counts."



Last time I checked, Boals like all coaches are getting paid for the entire season. If some of you don't care about anything other than three games in March, that is your business. Ohio should demand more than a three seed yearly for the highest paid coach in the league.


Fixed your code syntax for ya.

To address your point, they're paid for results and increasing exposure and revenue for the university. At a mid to low level like the MAC, all 3 are accomplished in March. It's not that everything else "doesn't matter" - it matters insomuch as it's preparation for March. But when you get down to brass tax, yes it's 3 days in Cleveland.

As for your comment on the highest paid coach getting higher than a 3 seed - go back and see how many times our beloved Groce finished above 3rd in the regular season? I'll wait.... (pssst, the real answer is nobody cares).
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 3:17:28 PM 
Bobcat Love wrote:
lovebobcat wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:


3 days in Cleveland is it. Boals is 7-3 with a ship and an NCAA win when it counts.



↑↑↑
This. In Boals I trust. Except for 2023, he always gets his teams playing hard and playing their best toward the end of the season. This team is scrapping and competing hard even without its best 2 players.

Wake me when any other current MAC coach exceeds Boal's record above in the MAC Tourney/NCAAs, or when any actually wins an NCAA tourney game.


With Saul’s players. Let’s just be honest about the situation.


I could be wrong, but this is what I remember about the transition year from Saul to Boals first year in 2019-2020:

Boals inherited three guys who would be immediate starters:

BVP
Preston
Jordan Dartis


-----

Other Saul players on Boals first team in 2019-2020

Connor Murrell
Mason McMurray
------

Saul recruited players who stuck with Boals:

Ben Roderick
Lunden McDay


Boals first year was Covid year...so he did not have a chance to go to NCAA tournament.
-------

Boals second year as coach (2020-2021 NCAA Tourney Team) he had these Saul coached players on the team:


BVP
Preston
McMurray

Two Saul recruits that Saul never coached:

Roderick
McDay

Boals recruits added for NCAA Tournament team:

Dwight Wilson (hit)
Mark Sears (hit)
Miles Brown (hit)
Colin Granger (miss)
Nolan Foster (miss)
Rifen Miguel (miss)
Jalen White (miss)

So when you break it down.....I don't think anyone can sit here and say that Boals only made the NCAA tournament because they were Saul's players. Yes, obviously Preston and BVP were huge and we don't beat Virginia without them. But Boals was the one who developed them. Does Saul get the same production out of BVP and Preston if he stays that Boals got out of them?

Also, Boals should get credit for retaining McDay and Roderick (Saul recruits) as part of his first class. He was the one that coached them from day one, not Saul.

And then Boals brought in Wilson and Sears. For all of Saul's faults as a game day coach, I will always be thankful that he found BVP and Preston. But Boals developed those guys and brought in the extra pieces to win the MAC his second year with Wilson and Sears and then developing McDay and Brod as sophomores.


In summary, both coaches deserve credit for the NCAA tourney run in 2020-2021. But certainly Boals gets more credit than Saul for making it happen.

And by the way, I say all of this as a huge Boals supporter who is incredibly disappointed in his record against Toledo/Akron/Kent and his inability to bring in a BIG the last two years that can come in and start immediately and give us 25-30 solid minutes in the paint.




Last Edited: 2/2/2025 3:59:52 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 8:40:46 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
[QUOTE=Bobcat1996] It is all about getting in the top eight and that will not be difficult in this mediocre conference. Get to Cleveland is all that is required. However, for season ticket holders and fans attending weekly games, ending up no better than a three seed yearly for the highest paid league coach is not exactly getting your moneys worth!


"I know you still think it's September, but as much as you continue to harp on it, this isn't the football team.

Nobody gives a rip about regular season standings in basketball, unless you're in a multi-bid league.

3 days in Cleveland is it. Boals is 7-3 with a ship and an NCAA win when it counts."

[/QUOTE

Last time I checked, Boals like all coaches are getting paid for the entire season. If some of you don't care about anything other than three games in March, that is your business. Ohio should demand more than a three seed yearly for the highest paid coach in the league.


Could not agree more with your comment about three days in March. If that's really all it boils down to, why buy tickets to any other games. I say that from an economics standpoint, not as a fan since we got here in 1979 or as a season ticket holder from the day they reseated the arena through 2022 or 2023. Before anyone lambasts me for not continuing my season tickets, it's because I have three granddaughters here in town who play volleyball (school, club and Hocking Valley League), basketball (two on school and one in the Hocking Valley League), one runs track and the other is a gymnast. There are only so many evenings and Saturdays from November through March so it seemed silly to pay $500 for a single seat to attend a few games a year.

That said, and back to Akron, I was and continue to be a huge Groce fan starting with the summer before his first game here in Athens when he and his assistants showed up at the Green and White Club scramble and offered apologies for only being able to play 9 holes because they had a recruit coming in later that morning. It doesn't hurt that he has $700,000 NIL money. No way to verify this but I'd be surprised if we have one fourth of that.



Ohio basketball doesn't have the amount of NIL that Akron has, however they have at least a third of what you stated above. Maybe more. Also, several on this board will be frustrated about what I'm going to say, but the Bobcat football NIL had way less cash than Toledo, Western Michigan and a few others, but look at those results. Just saying!
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 8:44:50 PM 
Pete Chouteau wrote:
Our basketball could have what Akron has if we abandon football like Akron has.


And why would Ohio get rid of football, when football has been way more successful the past few years? Has basketball been the most successful program in the conference the past four seasons?
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 8:46:07 PM 
SBH wrote:
Groce did not raise the money. They have one guy who does this - Bud Wentz - who signs the checks.


The Akron men's basketball program has a Bud Wentz.

The Ohio men's basketball program doesn't have a Bud Wentz.



#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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FormerMember
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 8:48:25 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
It doesn't hurt that he has $700,000 NIL money. No way to verify this but I'd be surprised if we have one fourth of that.



That $700k didn't materialize out of thin air. Groce raised the money.

And raising money is now part of the job.


I could be dead wrong. I don’t see our NIL collective being anymore than $150,000-$200,000 currently.


I don’t know the official numbers but I’d be shocked if Ohio didn’t have a decent chunk more than those figures based on what I know about a couple other collectives in the league. OU is doing better than most MAC schools in that area. Akron is just far ahead of everyone else in basketball. Obviously, Toledo and WMU do a solid job raising money as well.

Last Edited: 2/2/2025 8:51:59 PM by FormerMember
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 8:56:06 PM 
FormerMember wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
It doesn't hurt that he has $700,000 NIL money. No way to verify this but I'd be surprised if we have one fourth of that.



That $700k didn't materialize out of thin air. Groce raised the money.

And raising money is now part of the job.


I could be dead wrong. I don’t see our NIL collective being anymore than $150,000-$200,000 currently.


I don’t know the official numbers but I’d be shocked if Ohio didn’t have a decent chunk more than those figures based on what I know about a couple other collectives in the league. OU is doing better than most MAC schools in that area. Akron is just far ahead of everyone else in basketball.


Agree former member about what you mentioned about the figures above. Boals has more than 150-200 K. And to top things off, Boals best finish going into this season has been a third seed. The NIL/collective just really got jump started a few years ago.
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 9:02:03 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
FormerMember wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
It doesn't hurt that he has $700,000 NIL money. No way to verify this but I'd be surprised if we have one fourth of that.



That $700k didn't materialize out of thin air. Groce raised the money.

And raising money is now part of the job.


I could be dead wrong. I don’t see our NIL collective being anymore than $150,000-$200,000 currently.


I don’t know the official numbers but I’d be shocked if Ohio didn’t have a decent chunk more than those figures based on what I know about a couple other collectives in the league. OU is doing better than most MAC schools in that area. Akron is just far ahead of everyone else in basketball.


Agree former member about what you mentioned about the figures above. Boals has more than 150-200 K. And to top things off, Boals best finish going into this season has been a third seed. The NIL/collective just really got jump started a few years ago.


"So when you break it down.....I don't think anyone can sit here and say that Boals only made the NCAA tournament because they were Saul's players. Yes, obviously Preston and BVP were huge and we don't beat Virginia without them. But Boals was the one who developed them. Does Saul get the same production out of BVP and Preston if he stays that Boals got out of them?"

I give credit for Ohio beating UVA during Covid in the NCAA tourney. However, please do not forget UVA had no practices before the week of the Bobcat game or did not participate in the ACC tourney all games during Covid. It was a totally different situation back in those days. Also, Ohio was a five seed in their own conference tourney during Covid when all teams did not play the same amount of games.

Last Edited: 2/2/2025 9:03:21 PM by Bobcat1996
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/2/2025 10:29:11 PM 
I swear, if I gave half a crap about OU football I'd go over to that board and post 400 times a day about how we should probably fire the coach bc we STILL haven't made the CFB playoffs and we're paying top dollar for our coach and facilities - just like 1996 does over here.

We get it dude. We took a historically putrid team and finally won a wanna-be D1 conference for the first time since 1968. And we were aptly rewarded with playing a directional southern vocational choir academy in the Joe's Garage and Transmission Bowl at 2pm on a Wednesday.

Jeff Boals sucks. Someday in the future basketball only dreams of aspiring to the heights of our prestigious football program.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/3/2025 9:29:21 AM 
FearLeon wrote:
FormerMember wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
For some reason, we are just soft as hell at the rim. We rarely finish when fouled at the rim or the shot gets blocked. I’ve never seen anyone airball a layup like Pav did in that situation. Was he expecting contact? Have to go up stronger.

I ask again. Is this team making the MAC Tourney?


That's a ridiculous question


Why is it ridiculous? Find me three slam dunk 100% wins on the remaining schedule? I think it’s going to take 8-10 MAC record for Ohio to be playing in Cleveland in March.


It's completely ridiculous. We've been very much in every game since Hadaway & Clayton went down. 4 of our last 5 opponents are pretty unquestionably the best 4 teams in the conference. We've proven we can play with anyone yet you act as though we are getting run out of the gym. I'll wager any sum of money you want on the Bobcats making the MAC tournament.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 21 Thread: Miami (OH)
   Posted: 2/3/2025 10:35:24 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
FormerMember wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
For some reason, we are just soft as hell at the rim. We rarely finish when fouled at the rim or the shot gets blocked. I’ve never seen anyone airball a layup like Pav did in that situation. Was he expecting contact? Have to go up stronger.

I ask again. Is this team making the MAC Tourney?


That's a ridiculous question


Why is it ridiculous? Find me three slam dunk 100% wins on the remaining schedule? I think it’s going to take 8-10 MAC record for Ohio to be playing in Cleveland in March.


It's completely ridiculous. We've been very much in every game since Hadaway & Clayton went down. 4 of our last 5 opponents are pretty unquestionably the best 4 teams in the conference. We've proven we can play with anyone yet you act as though we are getting run out of the gym. I'll wager any sum of money you want on the Bobcats making the MAC tournament.


+1, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned BA over reaction meltdown narrative after a tough stretch.
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