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Topic:  RE: Luke Frazier

Topic:  RE: Luke Frazier
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 6:46:39 AM 
Maybe, just maybe, Luke was not as good a player as his press reports led us to believe. Jeff saw this up close and made the decision that he would not be part of the program.






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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 7:58:26 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
These D3 athletes often qualify for regular scholarships and other financial aid.


Often is a strong phrasing. Maybe true for an upper end guy like Frazier. Vast majority are paying an arm and a leg for a school they never would've even given a glance to if not for athletic opportunities.


Andrew Ruck
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 8:31:26 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
These D3 athletes often qualify for regular scholarships and other financial aid.


Often is a strong phrasing. Maybe true for an upper end guy like Frazier. Vast majority are paying an arm and a leg for a school they never would've even given a glance to if not for athletic opportunities.


If the DIII school likes Athletics, the student will often pay less to attend school then they would OHIO University, especially in men's equivalency sports. Many Marietta College baseball players are paying less for their schooling than OHIO University baseball players who are sharing that 11.9 scholarships with 40 players.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 10:54:08 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
These D3 athletes often qualify for regular scholarships and other financial aid.


Often is a strong phrasing. Maybe true for an upper end guy like Frazier. Vast majority are paying an arm and a leg for a school they never would've even given a glance to if not for athletic opportunities.


If the DIII school likes Athletics, the student will often pay less to attend school then they would OHIO University, especially in men's equivalency sports. Many Marietta College baseball players are paying less for their schooling than OHIO University baseball players who are sharing that 11.9 scholarships with 40 players.


Yep, they find very good academic scholarships for their athletes who are also actually good students -- a novel concept in today's world of college athletics. This is one very good thing about many DIII programs.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 11:03:23 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
These D3 athletes often qualify for regular scholarships and other financial aid.


Often is a strong phrasing. Maybe true for an upper end guy like Frazier. Vast majority are paying an arm and a leg for a school they never would've even given a glance to if not for athletic opportunities.


If the DIII school likes Athletics, the student will often pay less to attend school then they would OHIO University, especially in men's equivalency sports. Many Marietta College baseball players are paying less for their schooling than OHIO University baseball players who are sharing that 11.9 scholarships with 40 players.


I can attest to this.

11.9 is a kick to the face for baseball.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 11:45:54 AM 
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
These D3 athletes often qualify for regular scholarships and other financial aid.


Often is a strong phrasing. Maybe true for an upper end guy like Frazier. Vast majority are paying an arm and a leg for a school they never would've even given a glance to if not for athletic opportunities.


If the DIII school likes Athletics, the student will often pay less to attend school then they would OHIO University, especially in men's equivalency sports. Many Marietta College baseball players are paying less for their schooling than OHIO University baseball players who are sharing that 11.9 scholarships with 40 players.


I can attest to this.

11.9 is a kick to the face for baseball.


Perhaps a post for another day, but W-O-W... I did not realize this, at all.
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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 11:58:18 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
These D3 athletes often qualify for regular scholarships and other financial aid.


Often is a strong phrasing. Maybe true for an upper end guy like Frazier. Vast majority are paying an arm and a leg for a school they never would've even given a glance to if not for athletic opportunities.


If the DIII school likes Athletics, the student will often pay less to attend school then they would OHIO University, especially in men's equivalency sports. Many Marietta College baseball players are paying less for their schooling than OHIO University baseball players who are sharing that 11.9 scholarships with 40 players.


I can attest to this.

11.9 is a kick to the face for baseball.


Perhaps a post for another day, but W-O-W... I did not realize this, at all.


Mount Union's rise to DIII power was fueled in significant part by transfers from DI programs. They were drawn to Mount by combination of academic scholarships and part-time jobs. Don't know how many of them were academic stars.


http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 12:22:48 PM 
Still works that way. Had a conversation with former head coach at Frostburg State on why they moved to DII college football from DIII. Simply said, him and the President decided they could not compete with Mount, as they had basically 125 scholarships, and they were only providing about 45. So at least moving to DII all schools would be playing by the same rules.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 2:59:30 PM 
Sure, Marietta football & Mount Union football...literally the 2 most consistently successful D3 sports programs in the state by far.

The fact still remains the vast majority of D3 athletes are attending a school and at a price they would have never even remotely considered if not for the lure of continuing in their sport. Most these schools have like 80%+ student participation in some form of an extracurricular Freshmen year. Many of them quit after they realize they are 78th on the depth chart...but remain at the school.

And of course most aren't on any type of scholarship, or more than a tiny sliver of one. Do the math, somebody is funding the existence of these private schools.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 6:07:49 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Sure, Marietta football & Mount Union football...literally the 2 most consistently successful D3 sports programs in the state by far.

The fact still remains the vast majority of D3 athletes are attending a school and at a price they would have never even remotely considered if not for the lure of continuing in their sport. Most these schools have like 80%+ student participation in some form of an extracurricular Freshmen year. Many of them quit after they realize they are 78th on the depth chart...but remain at the school.

And of course most aren't on any type of scholarship, or more than a tiny sliver of one. Do the math, somebody is funding the existence of these private schools.


It depends on what kind of student you are. The guys that had academics as an afterthought are not going to do well getting financial aid but if you are a good student you are going to get significant financial aid either through academic scholarships or need based aid. My son is a good but not great student (3.5 gpa) and received a significant package that brought his $70K/yr price tag down to a reasonable amount. And athletics, at least at the schools to which he had applied, didn't play a factor in the offers. The initial offer he received was good but it still only brought the price down to a bit more than we wanted to spend so we filed an appeal. The coach told us specifically not to mention that he was an athlete in his appeal. But if you are a reasonably good student you are going to get something.

You are correct though about guys playing at schools they never would have looked at if it weren't for athletic opportunities. I had never heard of several of the schools that reached out to my son during the process and knew very little about most of them. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 10:25:26 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Sure, Marietta football & Mount Union football...literally the 2 most consistently successful D3 sports programs in the state by far.



Marietta "football"? You probably meant baseball, right? Also, you can probably add Marietta men's basketball to your list, although they get tougher competition within the league than Mount Union football and Marietta baseball.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/6/2022 11:15:46 PM 
OUVan wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Sure, Marietta football & Mount Union football...literally the 2 most consistently successful D3 sports programs in the state by far.

The fact still remains the vast majority of D3 athletes are attending a school and at a price they would have never even remotely considered if not for the lure of continuing in their sport. Most these schools have like 80%+ student participation in some form of an extracurricular Freshmen year. Many of them quit after they realize they are 78th on the depth chart...but remain at the school.

And of course most aren't on any type of scholarship, or more than a tiny sliver of one. Do the math, somebody is funding the existence of these private schools.


It depends on what kind of student you are. The guys that had academics as an afterthought are not going to do well getting financial aid but if you are a good student you are going to get significant financial aid either through academic scholarships or need based aid. My son is a good but not great student (3.5 gpa) and received a significant package that brought his $70K/yr price tag down to a reasonable amount. And athletics, at least at the schools to which he had applied, didn't play a factor in the offers. The initial offer he received was good but it still only brought the price down to a bit more than we wanted to spend so we filed an appeal. The coach told us specifically not to mention that he was an athlete in his appeal. But if you are a reasonably good student you are going to get something.

You are correct though about guys playing at schools they never would have looked at if it weren't for athletic opportunities. I had never heard of several of the schools that reached out to my son during the process and knew very little about most of them. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.


Itís interesting that the coach told you not to mention in your scholarship appeal that your son was an athlete. I would guess thatís because the coach didnít want you to think when your son got additional funds in his scholarship that it was, at least in part, because he was an athlete. Over the years Iíve heard multiple times that many D3 schools give athletes with good academic credentials scholarship aide over equally good students who are not also athletes, but that theses schools go to great lengths to hide the fact that they are operating in that manner.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/7/2022 3:03:00 AM 
Where did Sam Towns end up?
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/9/2022 8:42:29 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Sure, Marietta football & Mount Union football...literally the 2 most consistently successful D3 sports programs in the state by far.



Marietta "football"? You probably meant baseball, right? Also, you can probably add Marietta men's basketball to your list, although they get tougher competition within the league than Mount Union football and Marietta baseball.



YES, Marietta Baseball. My bad.

Thanks for thoughts from the parent perspective OUV. My eldest son is only a Freshman in HS right now but his talent level and love for baseball makes me guess I could end up in this situation in a few years. I don't mean to completely dismiss the D3 college athlete experience but I don't think there is enough discussion about some of the predatory tactics some of these schools use. I know 2 guys who went to Capital to play Football...there were over 50 football players in the freshmen class and it became clear they weren't ever really going to play once they got into things. They quit after 1 season but stayed at Capital and piled up insane college debt. None of it would've happened without the lure of the "college athlete" title.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/9/2022 8:53:26 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Sure, Marietta football & Mount Union football...literally the 2 most consistently successful D3 sports programs in the state by far.



Marietta "football"? You probably meant baseball, right? Also, you can probably add Marietta men's basketball to your list, although they get tougher competition within the league than Mount Union football and Marietta baseball.



YES, Marietta Baseball. My bad.

Thanks for thoughts from the parent perspective OUV. My eldest son is only a Freshman in HS right now but his talent level and love for baseball makes me guess I could end up in this situation in a few years. I don't mean to completely dismiss the D3 college athlete experience but I don't think there is enough discussion about some of the predatory tactics some of these schools use. I know 2 guys who went to Capital to play Football...there were over 50 football players in the freshmen class and it became clear they weren't ever really going to play once they got into things. They quit after 1 season but stayed at Capital and piled up insane college debt. None of it would've happened without the lure of the "college athlete" title.


And schools like Capital tend to suck because they do not allocate that money. But yes, they have to bring in more players, that's why they have sports in the first place. Heck, their coaching salaries are set off the number of roster kids they have, and they get bonuses for certain levels.

Baseball is a totally different animal than DIII football. They still bring in quite large freshman classes though.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/9/2022 10:34:36 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
YES, Marietta Baseball. My bad.
Thanks for thoughts from the parent perspective OUV. My eldest son is only a Freshman in HS right now but his talent level and love for baseball makes me guess I could end up in this situation in a few years. I don't mean to completely dismiss the D3 college athlete experience but I don't think there is enough discussion about some of the predatory tactics some of these schools use. I know 2 guys who went to Capital to play Football...there were over 50 football players in the freshmen class and it became clear they weren't ever really going to play once they got into things. They quit after 1 season but stayed at Capital and piled up insane college debt. None of it would've happened without the lure of the "college athlete" title.


Capital is not alone. I know a NAIA school that recently created a football program in order to make money. Increased enrollment of football players - many of whom drop out of the sport after freshman year, but stay enrolled -- means increased tuition collected over the next 3 years. The plan has worked exactly as planned for them.
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/9/2022 10:46:18 AM 
greencat wrote:
Where did Sam Towns end up?


He hasn't yet.

Neither have Granger or Tenerowicz.

Last Edited: 5/9/2022 10:48:54 AM by GraffZ06

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/9/2022 11:01:23 AM 
cc-cat wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
YES, Marietta Baseball. My bad.
Thanks for thoughts from the parent perspective OUV. My eldest son is only a Freshman in HS right now but his talent level and love for baseball makes me guess I could end up in this situation in a few years. I don't mean to completely dismiss the D3 college athlete experience but I don't think there is enough discussion about some of the predatory tactics some of these schools use. I know 2 guys who went to Capital to play Football...there were over 50 football players in the freshmen class and it became clear they weren't ever really going to play once they got into things. They quit after 1 season but stayed at Capital and piled up insane college debt. None of it would've happened without the lure of the "college athlete" title.


Capital is not alone. I know a NAIA school that recently created a football program in order to make money. Increased enrollment of football players - many of whom drop out of the sport after freshman year, but stay enrolled -- means increased tuition collected over the next 3 years. The plan has worked exactly as planned for them.


One of my friends who is a DII basketball coach was telling me last fall about his pay bonus for x number of players on campus, (and program budget), and if they quit the team, but stay in school, they still get a bump in both areas.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Luke Frazier
   Posted: 5/9/2022 1:10:35 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
One of my friends who is a DII basketball coach was telling me last fall about his pay bonus for x number of players on campus, (and program budget), and if they quit the team, but stay in school, they still get a bump in both areas.


This is making my point better than anything I said and should really tell us all we need to know.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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