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Topic: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Topic: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

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Pataskala
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OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/22/2021 11:48:15 AM

The Professional Collegiate League plans to pay college students to play b-ball.
Students would get $50,000 to $150,000 per year plus a stipend for college tuition expenses. They would have to be enrolled in college to play. They plan an eight-team league to play in the DC area initially, with plans for teams in eight cities on the East Coast. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/04/22/professi... /

The league would draw the cream of the recruiting crop each year, with the biggest impact on the schools that rely on one-and-dones. There might be some trickle-down effect on other schools, but it certainly will make it more difficult for "P" teams to recruit elite players.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

GraffZ06
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/22/2021 1:01:53 PM

This is dumb IMO. Just let them go straight to the NBA, Europe or the grocery U-Scan if they so desire.

The NBA saying 18 year olds can't handle the lifestyle is surely accurate (and backed up by statistics) but it's not the company/government's place to police bad decisions and force them into other options like this weird idea. If you think you're the next LBJ and want to jump to the NBA at 18 - be my guest. Just take responsibility for your decisions and actions, whether that's super-stardom and mogul money or bankrupt, in debt and drug addicted. That's on you.

Maybe you wash out of the league in under 3 years and decide that college idea - or another line of work - isn't so bad after all. Now it's on your dime, but that's okay because decisions have consequences good and bad.

Last Edited: 4/22/2021 1:05:01 PM by GraffZ06

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/22/2021 1:10:33 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

The NBA saying 18 year olds can't handle the lifestyle is surely accurate (and backed up by statistics) but it's not the company/government's place to police bad decisions and force them into other options like this weird idea. \

Maybe I'm missing something, but how is the government forcing anything here?

I'm not super bullish on this league's prospects for success, but otherwise don't see what the issue is here. It's a free-market solution to something that's clearly viewed as a problem by a healthy percentage of people.

My personal sense is that any pressure leagues like this (and the G League) are able to create is good, and will force change by the NCAA.

Last Edited: 4/22/2021 1:15:42 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

bobcatsquared
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/22/2021 1:54:15 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

And by then the NCAA, at its current rate and wisdom, will probably allow former NBA players with college eligibility left to return to college and play a year or two of basketball.

On a side note, I didn't know that former president Lyndon Baines Johnson was a baller.

mf279801
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/22/2021 4:07:47 PM

bobcatsquared wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

If you listen to stories about him, he balled out with his advisors all the time. Just not on the basketball court.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/22/2021 7:42:29 PM

mf279801 wrote:

If you listen to stories about him, he balled out with his advisors all the time. Just not on the basketball court.

This is a really good joke.

longtiimelurker
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/22/2021 10:54:08 PM

Graf

Your take is absolutely true. There is no reason we should not let guys make their own bad choices and live with them. Don't want to be in school? Go. Just GO. If you fail that is on you. boo friggidy hoo. That happens to a large percentage of society and there is no net. Not sure why we felt the year in school for kids that do not want to be there is a good idea. There is no promise and there is no reason to give them protections when the man (they are only kids when they have done something wrong and want to appeal for our sympathy) has dreams of grandeur and wants truckloads of cash.

GraffZ06
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/23/2021 1:01:46 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but how is the government forcing anything here?

In this particular case, the US govt isn't forcing anything. The governing body of professional basketball in the US is (the NBA - through it's lovely Article X rule).

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

I'm not super bullish on this league's prospects for success, but otherwise don't see what the issue is here. It's a free-market solution to something that's clearly viewed as a problem by a healthy percentage of people.

It's only an issue because the NBA created the problem (sorta like government eh?) That's my point. We don't NEED leagues like this - even if they are free market solutions to a dumb problem - if the NBA would just do away with Article X and let people make decisions for themselves, including the kids who want to jump straight to the pros and the front office execs who just can't stop themselves from drafting the latest AAU all-star, then there wouldn't be a problem to begin with.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

My personal sense is that any pressure leagues like this (and the G League) are able to create is good, and will force change by the NCAA.

Letting 18 year old adults make their own adult decisions about their lives makes more sense to me than changing the definition of amateurism and trying to come up with some convoluted method of paying college players, or starting weird 8 team leagues, that doesn't cause the whole thing to crumble before our eyes. JMHO.

greencat
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/23/2021 1:58:05 AM

A paid college basketball league?

LSU has to be in this, right?

https://www.al.com/sports/2020/04/hbo-airs-will-wade-audi... .

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/23/2021 8:11:03 AM

GraffZ06 wrote:

In this particular case, the US govt isn't forcing anything. The governing body of professional basketball in the US is (the NBA - through it's lovely Article X rule).

The NBA (the league itself) has been trying to change this; it's the player's union who is stopping it.

GraffZ06 wrote:

It's only an issue because the NBA created the problem (sorta like government eh?) That's my point.

I disagree, in the sense that you're defining the problem in an extremely narrow way. For some reason, people are completely willing to accept that the only way a basketball player should be capable of making money in the United States is if they're in the tiny, minute fraction of basketball players who are good enough to play in the NBA. And they accept that despite the fact that the actual market for basketball is much, much, much larger than the NBA. A billion dollars in non-NBA basketball revenue is generated every year.

You seem to be defining the problem as "how do we get another 3 to 5 eighteen year olds paid each year" -- for me, the problem is that there's a billion plus in revenue generated by a lot of labor each year. And a big chunk of that labor lacks access to that money.

GraffZ06 wrote:

We don't NEED leagues like this - even if they are free market solutions to a dumb problem - if the NBA would just do away with Article X and let people make decisions for themselves, including the kids who want to jump straight to the pros and the front office execs who just can't stop themselves from drafting the latest AAU all-star, then there wouldn't be a problem to begin with.

Again, this is only true if you define the problem very narrowly. There are far more basketball players who generate a whole lot of revenue than there are basketball players who earn money from that revenue. Luke Garza, for instance, is not an NBA player and likely won't stick in the league. And yet, he's a very high profile basketball player. If somebody like him wants to choose to play in this second league while going to college, and make 100k a year in the process, I have no problem with that. And that's not in any way solved by letting the NBA draft 18 year olds.

To be clear, I wouldn't invest a dime of my own money in an idea like this because I think the incumbent this league has to beat out (the NCAA) has about 8,000 built in advantages, but the market they're going after isn't NBA money. It's NCAA money.

GraffZ06 wrote:

I get why people are afraid of change and worry about a product they like changing, I also actually believe in capitalism and freedom to earn and think restricting an individual's ability to make money off of their hard work is morally repugnant. I see nothing sacred about the definition of amateurism the NCAA created, and no reason why it can't be changed.

If the NCAA continues to bury its head in the sand and insist that the bylaws they created before they grew college sports into a huge business are still relevant, they're going to end up in a far worse place. The risk of the system crumbling comes from legal challenges to a system that it appears is unlikely to be held up as legal. Go read the Supreme Court's thoughts on the matter, for example. The legal challenges will be far more frequent and are far more likely to find backing with players the longer the NCAA insists on their draconian definition of amateurism. They can choose to bend, or they're going to break. "Because we like it the way it is" isn't a legal argument.

Last Edited: 4/23/2021 8:12:30 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

cc-cat
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/23/2021 10:48:53 AM

GraffZ06 wrote:

This is being driven by the decisions of 18 year olds. In recent years HS players are looking overseas at options. Now a free market entrepreneur is responding to the changing marketplace. TV money alone should make it work but we will see. May be another XFL.

FWIT - The Olympics changed the �definition� of amateurism years ago and the earth kept spinning.

Last Edited: 4/23/2021 10:51:32 AM by cc-cat

greencat
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/23/2021 2:48:19 PM

cc-cat wrote:

May be another XFL.

Usually, non-NBA "pro" basketball (besides the NBA owned G league) ends up quite a dismal failure.

Short-lived teams that often play at the local "Y" and middle school gyms...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Basketball_Associ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Basketball_L...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Basketball_League

A farm system for hoops like in baseball would be cool but if it is not part of the NBA it will be doomed from the word go.

cc-cat
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/23/2021 3:02:42 PM

greencat wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

May be another XFL.

Usually, non-NBA "pro" basketball (besides the NBA owned G league) ends up quite a dismal failure.

That's because they didn't do smart promotions to attract crowds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GnPt3RIIsA

longtiimelurker
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/23/2021 5:27:25 PM

greencat wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

May be another XFL.

Wasn't there someone on here about 5 years or so back that was espousing a similar situation, even saying that the FIBA model of club teams and paid players younger than 18 would be what this would eventually morph into? I am sure I am not dreaming this. Anyone else remember this post?

Ohio69
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/23/2021 6:51:27 PM

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31317295/top-prep-for...

See. There�s plenty of options. Let the NCAA be....

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

greencat
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/23/2021 7:01:38 PM

cc-cat wrote:

greencat wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

May be another XFL.

Usually, non-NBA "pro" basketball (besides the NBA owned G league) ends up quite a dismal failure.

That's because they didn't do smart promotions to attract crowds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GnPt3RIIsA

"But we don't even have corn dogs!"

-------------------------------------------------------

A few years back, a former sportswriter I knew from long ago had been hyped on a proposed upstart (semi-) pro basketball league. Some sort of "Heritage Basketball Association" or what-not what was going to play it's games in old obsolete HBCU gyms like the one at Fisk University. I reminded him that the last decent try at a minor league hoops thing in Nashville played their games in the shiny new arena at Lipscomb in a really nice part of town and still didn't draw squat. He insisted I was missing the boat by not getting involved in the project.

Today the only evidence I can find online of anything called the Heritage Basketball League or Association is a youth league in Monroeville, Indiana.

Non-NBA-sponsored minor league basketball = pipe dream.

Last Edited: 4/23/2021 7:02:01 PM by greencat

giacomo
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 4/24/2021 8:15:09 AM

Anything that causes the NCAA and P5 to sweat is okay by me.

OUVan
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 5/21/2021 10:42:46 AM

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31482947/matt-ryan-be...

Two big recruits (twins) sign with the Overtime Elite League.

BillyTheCat
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 5/21/2021 1:20:31 PM

So if you go to their website and their "story", they claim that their programing is viewed 14 billion times a year. They never specifically tell you what their "programming" is though.

Interesting that a "League" will have up to 30 players.

FUNDING
Overtime raised an unannounced funding round this past year and is well-capitalized to finance OTE.

Claims to have secured $80 million in funds.

Last Edited: 5/21/2021 1:31:09 PM by BillyTheCat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 5/21/2021 1:51:04 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Overtime's an existing brand and company; this league's a new addition to their existing products. Their existing products are media properties -- overtime.tv has basketball, football, and soccer channels -- largely distributed on YouTube. There's also a gaming channel largely distributed on Twitch.

In terms of funding, it's publicly available. Crunchbase is generally considered the best resource for private company funding: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/overtime

They've raised 115 million total; most recent round was 80 million with Jeff Bezos as the lead investor. Incidentally, Amazon owns Twitch, and at the time they purchased it the 1 billion dollar acquisition number was a shock to most people and there was a lot of pushback. Their current valuation's 15 billion.

Last Edited: 5/21/2021 2:00:40 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

BillyTheCat
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 5/23/2021 10:27:40 AM

Their funding is great, but I am not seeing where you are making a profit off this business venture. I am sure they are smarter than me in this field, but I am skeptical where this thing turns a profit with 30 players tops, and they have a short time to fill the other 28 slots.

Maddog13
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 5/23/2021 6:18:02 PM

Good riddance, I say. College basketball is going to be much better once you remove the one-and-done players. I also find it hard to believe anyone will really tune in to see a bunch of pro-wannabees, who have a long way to go before they can be considered NBA caliber, unless, of course, there is a Lebron or Kobe level phenom amongst them. Since those type of athletes don't come around often, I would say this commercial venture will soon be a bust, and there will be a bunch of young has-beens that nobody quite remembers who they are.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 5/24/2021 8:20:43 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Yeah, as I said prior, I wouldn't put my own money into this. I just think the NCAA has way too many built in advantages. But that Jeff Bezos, who was so far ahead of the curve on Twitch, has his money in makes me wonder what I'm missing.

IceCat76
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 5/25/2021 9:07:00 AM

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/31503278/high-school...

Is this something Hargrave would be included in?

BillyTheCat
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RE: OT: New league to pay players and compete with the NCAA

Posted: 5/25/2021 11:08:59 AM

IceCat76 wrote:

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/31503278/high-school...

Is this something Hargrave would be included in?

I am sure they would like to be, but at this time they are not.

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