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Topic:  Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind

Topic:  Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/22/2020 6:05:25 PM 

Russ has been good enough to post some great Ohio Basketball memories over the last couple of days. He continues with the Ohio/UNC Sweet 16 game. Interested in your memories of that game.


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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/22/2020 6:06:29 PM 

 


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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/22/2020 6:08:18 PM 

To this day, I wonder what would have happened if DJ's halfcourt fling at the end of regulation goes in. Ohio goes to the Elite 8. Maybe one of the greatest moments in NCAA Tournament history?


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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/22/2020 7:52:23 PM 
I watched this game (and the South Florida) game yesterday on YouTube. Couldn't find the Michigan game. Here's the North Carolina one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPdtdUeIeY8 . It's unique because you can hear the broadcasters Marv Albert and Steve Kerr during commercial times. Unfortunately, this broadcast does not include overtime.

It was the first time I'd watched the broadcast of it because I was there. I had forgotten how bad of a start Ohio got off to, down by 15 in the first half. North Carolina was huge and absolutely pounded Ohio inside early. They went away from that a lot later, plus Ohio really used its quickness advantage, and that helped the Bobcats make a run. Walter Offutt was amazing (and was against South Florida too) but I wonder how it would have played out had he completed that three-point play that would have put Ohio up. Harrison Barnes had a terrible game, and I'm surprised North Carolina went to him for the final shot of regulation. Still, in watching the replay, he and John Henson both hit a couple late long 2-point jumpers, the kind of shots I'm sure Ohio was happy to see North Carolina take. If those don't go in, Ohio probably wins.

The Bobcats really did take advantage of the Tar Heels playing a 5-11 walk-on point guard because the starter, Marshall, was injured. He could not defend Offutt, including on that game-tying play. The guy who played out of position at point guard off the bench, Justin Watts, was not able to handle the ball well enough. North Carolina had 24 turnovers and won with its size. Although North Carolina was without a good point guard, it still had three All-ACC first-team players (Tyler Zeller, Barnes and Henson). Plus Reggie Bullock, P.J. Hairston and James Michael McAdoo, who also had NBA careers.

In re-watching the game, I really don't know how North Carolina pulled it out based on how they played, but based on how much talent they had, it's amazing Ohio almost knocked them off. I really wish the Bobcats would have, but I really don't think it would have gone well against Kansas in the Elite Eight. But just to be playing a win away from the Final Four would have been unbelievable.
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/22/2020 8:12:17 PM 
Barnes sucked, Henson was decent, Bullock gave them an unexpected lift, but we had no answer for Zeller.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/22/2020 9:13:05 PM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Harrison Barnes had a terrible game, and I'm surprised North Carolina went to him for the final shot of regulation.


I was really happy he took the last shot.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/22/2020 10:03:13 PM 
shabamon wrote:
Barnes sucked, Henson was decent, Bullock gave them an unexpected lift, but we had no answer for Zeller.


Even with Zeller killing us, they stopped going to him the 2nd half for whatever reason. That and the three point shooting really got us back in it. Bullock saved their ass with a couple big shots.

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/22/2020 11:37:51 PM 
Crazier to think, everyone was essentially back from a Sweet 16 team and Jim Christian wrecked it.....
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/22/2020 11:58:33 PM 
Walt was so great in the tourney. I just hate hate hate that I can't get the missed FT out of my mind. Ohio being that close to the Elite 8 is incredible to think about and it should have happened. I think DJ shot 2-17 in that game if I remember correctly...that hurt. And with all of that...we still had a chance. I was there in St. Louis that night. It ranks as one of the most electrifying sports moments of my lifetime. Hope we get another crack at it in this lifetime.


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 8:41:16 AM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Crazier to think, everyone was essentially back from a Sweet 16 team and Jim Christian wrecked it.....


I understand why Christian is persona non grata around here, but I'll never get this fantastical thinking. I'll take a 24-8 MAC Champion "wrecked" team any time.

The 2012 run was magical, rare and lucky. That team barely beat Toledo in the MAC semis and survived a coin-flip game with Akron in the final. Then it got a spectacular draw to get to the Sweet 16 to face a wounded UNC. The stars aligned. It certainly didn't make anything the following year a foregone conclusion, especially with the tumult that comes with a coaching change.

Yes, the 2012-2013 season was disappointing, and it's obvious there were some awful breakdowns with chemistry and between the coach and team, but it's revisionist history to presume that team would have waltzed back into the Sweet 16 even if Groce stayed. MAC teams in the Sweet 16 are about a once-a-decade thing for a reason.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 9:48:59 AM 
We were sitting in the second row at half court on the team bench side of the floor opposite the OU fans. The late Dennis Stone, an early 80s OU grad and one of our RAs when I was an RD in Pickering Hall, was the technical director for the broadcast. After visiting with him in the production truck, he put an all access pass around each of our necks which allowed for unfettered access to the entire event. That was an unforgettable experience.

When we got off to such a slow start, I was afraid it was going to be a long embarrassing night but then we caught lightening in a bottle and the NC State and Kansas fans began to get behind the Bobcats, the atmosphere in the arena became electric. Just thinking about it gives me the shivers today.

That missed free throw was crushing. Instead of having to score, UNC was in a no lose situation. It was a great night and ranks right there with the night we won the pre-season NIT at The Garden and the 110 held an impromptu pep rally on the corner of 31st Street and 7th Avenue. Great Bobcat memories.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 11:23:44 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Crazier to think, everyone was essentially back from a Sweet 16 team and Jim Christian wrecked it.....


, but it's revisionist history to presume that team would have waltzed back into the Sweet 16 even if Groce stayed. MAC teams in the Sweet 16 are about a once-a-decade thing for a reason.


I don't think there is anyone who assumed or believed Groce would take Ohio to back to back Sweet 16's if he stayed. However, if he did stay, I'm convinced he would have led them back to the NCAA tourney with what he had returning and the recruiting class he had coming in.

No sense in re-hashing....its' been discussed for years on this board. Those players did not like Christian (well documented)...never meshed with him..and it was an awful fit.



Last Edited: 3/23/2020 11:24:29 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 11:28:07 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Crazier to think, everyone was essentially back from a Sweet 16 team and Jim Christian wrecked it.....


I understand why Christian is persona non grata around here, but I'll never get this fantastical thinking. I'll take a 24-8 MAC Champion "wrecked" team any time.

The 2012 run was magical, rare and lucky. That team barely beat Toledo in the MAC semis and survived a coin-flip game with Akron in the final. Then it got a spectacular draw to get to the Sweet 16 to face a wounded UNC. The stars aligned. It certainly didn't make anything the following year a foregone conclusion, especially with the tumult that comes with a coaching change.

Yes, the 2012-2013 season was disappointing, and it's obvious there were some awful breakdowns with chemistry and between the coach and team, but it's revisionist history to presume that team would have waltzed back into the Sweet 16 even if Groce stayed. MAC teams in the Sweet 16 are about a once-a-decade thing for a reason.


This is the rational and reasonable take, which I know is not popular in sports. I know it is tempting to romanticize this great group of young men who gave us the sports memory of a lifetime...but to act like 2013 was "wrecked" is silly. They were 24-7 (11-5) in 2011-12 then 23-8 (14-2) in 2012-13 against a tougher OOC schedule. The 2013 MAC Championship was a disaster, yes...but to shit on the whole year is just lazy.

I've watched the UNC game several times. It is interesting that I find the game that we ultimately lost more entertaining than the 2 games that we won (which I was at). Offutt & Kellogg from 3 was everything for us. Baltic & Cooper had some amazing passes to create those looks. They all played great defense. We got torched in rebounding. Unfortunately what really did us in was DJ having too quick of a trigger on ill-advise shots that just were not falling.


Andrew Ruck
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 11:47:30 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Crazier to think, everyone was essentially back from a Sweet 16 team and Jim Christian wrecked it.....


I understand why Christian is persona non grata around here, but I'll never get this fantastical thinking. I'll take a 24-8 MAC Champion "wrecked" team any time.

The 2012 run was magical, rare and lucky. That team barely beat Toledo in the MAC semis and survived a coin-flip game with Akron in the final. Then it got a spectacular draw to get to the Sweet 16 to face a wounded UNC. The stars aligned. It certainly didn't make anything the following year a foregone conclusion, especially with the tumult that comes with a coaching change.

Yes, the 2012-2013 season was disappointing, and it's obvious there were some awful breakdowns with chemistry and between the coach and team, but it's revisionist history to presume that team would have waltzed back into the Sweet 16 even if Groce stayed. MAC teams in the Sweet 16 are about a once-a-decade thing for a reason.


Wasn't saying making a Sweet 16 run was within reason, was also saying that the momentum from that run died with Christian and led to mutiny island.....
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 1:31:49 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Crazier to think, everyone was essentially back from a Sweet 16 team and Jim Christian wrecked it.....


I understand why Christian is persona non grata around here, but I'll never get this fantastical thinking. I'll take a 24-8 MAC Champion "wrecked" team any time.

The 2012 run was magical, rare and lucky. That team barely beat Toledo in the MAC semis and survived a coin-flip game with Akron in the final. Then it got a spectacular draw to get to the Sweet 16 to face a wounded UNC. The stars aligned. It certainly didn't make anything the following year a foregone conclusion, especially with the tumult that comes with a coaching change.

Yes, the 2012-2013 season was disappointing, and it's obvious there were some awful breakdowns with chemistry and between the coach and team, but it's revisionist history to presume that team would have waltzed back into the Sweet 16 even if Groce stayed. MAC teams in the Sweet 16 are about a once-a-decade thing for a reason.


Wasn't saying making a Sweet 16 run was within reason, was also saying that the momentum from that run died with Christian and led to mutiny island.....


For me, the biggest thing it did besides mutiny island was severely hamper the future of Ohio basketball for the next coming years.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 2:01:40 PM 
^^Caris LeVert, who scored 51 points in an NBA game earlier this month, was signed by Ohio before Groce left for Illinois.

Last Edited: 3/23/2020 2:01:57 PM by bobcatsquared

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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 3:08:26 PM 
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/ncaa-basketball/news/...
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 8:45:31 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Crazier to think, everyone was essentially back from a Sweet 16 team and Jim Christian wrecked it.....


Crazier to think that Groce almost wrecked it that year himself. People remember how the season ended but most don't remember how the whole season went. In the middle of February people on this very board were calling for his job after we lost back to back games. Christian's sin was laying an egg in the MAC Championship game. We were a 4 seed the year we went to the Sweet 16. That being said I will admit that the 2012 team was the best team I've seen Ohio place on the court since the mid-80s. But the season came pretty close to ending in the semis against Buffalo and we won in OT in the Championship game. And if either of those had happened this board would have been calling for Groce's job at some point the following season as well. Christian came in to almost impossibly high expectations. The fact that our only regular season MAC Championship team in the last 26 years is considered a "wreck" pretty much underscores that.
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GroverBall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 9:35:36 PM 
Speaking of JC:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/2...

He's 25-85 in the ACC and he just got another year.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 10:12:21 PM 
GroverBall wrote:
Speaking of JC:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/2...

He's 25-85 in the ACC and he just got another year.


If we could post GIF's, it would be a jaw drop
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/23/2020 11:03:05 PM 
I'm guessing we're going to see fewer coaching changes than normal under current circumstances.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/24/2020 8:06:02 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
I'm guessing we're going to see fewer coaching changes than normal under current circumstances.


There hasn't been a single change from the major conferences.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/24/2020 8:23:37 AM 
It is kind of impressive how many Ohio coaches went on to have very underwhelming but long tenures:

Jim Christian - Boston College - 75-119 (25-85) - 6 years & counting
Tim O'Shea - Bryant - 96-210 (59-101) - 9 years (retired)
Larry Hunter - Western Carolina - 193-229 (112-120) - 13 years (retired)
Danny Nee - Nebraska - 254-190 (88-116) - 14 years (fired)

Plus 3 more where the results were not tolerated long:

Danny Nee - Duquesne - 41-103 (19-61) - 5 years
John Groce - Illinois - 95-75 (37-53) - 5 years
Billy Hahn - La Salle - 37-54 (16-32) - 3 years

Total 791-980 (356-568)

I believe this covers all former Ohio head coaches dating back to at least the 1940s when Jim Snyder took over, leaving off Groce at Akron (for now).


Andrew Ruck
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/24/2020 12:30:08 PM 
OUVan wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Crazier to think, everyone was essentially back from a Sweet 16 team and Jim Christian wrecked it.....


Crazier to think that Groce almost wrecked it that year himself. People remember how the season ended but most don't remember how the whole season went. In the middle of February people on this very board were calling for his job after we lost back to back games. Christian's sin was laying an egg in the MAC Championship game. We were a 4 seed the year we went to the Sweet 16. That being said I will admit that the 2012 team was the best team I've seen Ohio place on the court since the mid-80s. But the season came pretty close to ending in the semis against Buffalo and we won in OT in the Championship game. And if either of those had happened this board would have been calling for Groce's job at some point the following season as well. Christian came in to almost impossibly high expectations. The fact that our only regular season MAC Championship team in the last 26 years is considered a "wreck" pretty much underscores that.


Exactly. Christian's team had a BAD (and I mean BAD) 20 minutes of basketball in Cleveland and it cost them a return trip to the tourney.

They led by nine in the first half ... three at the half ... and then the wheels completely came off in the 2nd half vs. Akron.

I know this is Akron slanted ... but if you want to revisit it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abzVr4DzCDY

There were all kinds of issues with that meshing of a new staff and that team in 2013. But to win the only MAC regular season title in nearly three decades ... and to call it a WRECK. C'mon. Put your vitriol for Christian aside ... that team was still pretty good. 24-10 with competitive losses at Oklahoma and UMass. A train wreck at Memphis. And two they "should've wons" against Robert Morris and Winthrop. The ran absolutely roughshod over the MAC that year ... only losing to Akron. Yes, it was three times ... but NO Ohio team can claim that they went 14-0 vs. the rest of the league in one season.

And the next year, with a relatively new roster ... he won 25 games and lost a hard-fought game in MAC Q'finals (again to Akron).

I know the chemistry wasn't quite right in the program ... but even with that, the guy went 49-21 in two years ... but the way it's talked about, it's like he went 4-66.

25-9 in the MAC in two seasons ... 28-11 including the MAC tourney. 27-6 vs. everyone NOT named Akron (1-5 vs. Zips)

Whatever. It's ancient history at this point.

Back to 2012 ... I was in St. Louis that night ... and in Nashville the wknd before. Maybe the greatest two weeks of being a Bobcat fan. It was an unreal atmosphere in St. Louis. Just amazing to be a part of it. That FT will haunt me (and I'm sure Offutt) for my life. As someone else said, UNC NEEDING to score on that final possession rather than hoping to score would have been interesting. And, man, Coop's heave at the horn was THISclose to making history.

They just ran out of gas in OT ... the 3pts quit falling.

Baltic 2-10 FG ... Cooper 3-20 FG (1-10 3pt) .... OUch!!!

I'd like to confidently say, Ohio will get back to that position one day .... but I'm not so sure. It's so hard for the stars to align like they did and to do that. It was really lightning in a bottle.

I think, for the first time in five years, I have optimism on where this program is heading under Boals. I'll take a bye to Cleveland to start in 2021 ... a trip back to the semifinals would be nice. A title game berth, sure!

But that's why I'll always cherish those two years in 2012 and 13 (even with the MAC title game defeat) as two of the best years for Ohio basketball. Those teams were really good. And were 20 minutes from doing something no team in school history (and very few in the MAC) has done ... go to back-to-back NCAA tourneys. (Ball 89, 90 ... Kent 01, 02 ... Buffalo 15, 16 & 18, 19 .... that's it)
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sweet 16 Ohio/UNC Rewind
   Posted: 3/24/2020 1:27:55 PM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
I'm guessing we're going to see fewer coaching changes than normal under current circumstances.


There hasn't been a single change from the major conferences.


The NCAA regionals are always places where ADs do their shopping for new coaches because they can see a lot of coaches in a short period of time. That's how we got JC after Groce left. It can be done by phone but that's less efficient.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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