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Topic: A More Interesting Conversation
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bshot44
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Posted: 12/13/2018 10:54 AM
AlumDadDad wrote:expand_more
One more thought - do we become a bit more of a passing team next year with all the returning WR talent (minus Papi of course)? If so, what does that mean for Maxwell? I still feel he's the more natural passer, but no way we could bench Nathan after what he's been doing for us.
No chance. Not as long as Frank is head coach. They will always have a run-first mentality.

It's in his DNA
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/13/2018 11:16 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
It's in his DNA
This expression is becoming oh so trite. Oh wait, this is a sports board, trite expressions are the norm . . .
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Bcat2
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Posted: 12/13/2018 12:12 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
One more thought - do we become a bit more of a passing team next year with all the returning WR talent (minus Papi of course)? If so, what does that mean for Maxwell? I still feel he's the more natural passer, but no way we could bench Nathan after what he's been doing for us.
No chance. Not as long as Frank is head coach. They will always have a run-first mentality.

It's in his DNA
First two plays vs Akron; to White for 35, to White for 11. Now those were passes to back up the defense to open up the run which did go for 381. Coach Solich would likely acknowledge others these past seasons, 2017 Albin/Johnson/Isphording, then 2018 Albin/Isphording as responsible for the game plans. Isphording I think is having more influence as the QB play is improving and he can bring the QB more to the front.
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 12/13/2018 1:11 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
One more thought - do we become a bit more of a passing team next year with all the returning WR talent (minus Papi of course)? If so, what does that mean for Maxwell? I still feel he's the more natural passer, but no way we could bench Nathan after what he's been doing for us.
No chance. Not as long as Frank is head coach. They will always have a run-first mentality.

It's in his DNA
First two plays vs Akron; to White for 35, to White for 11. Now those were passes to back up the defense to open up the run which did go for 381. Coach Solich would likely acknowledge others these past seasons, 2017 Albin/Johnson/Isphording, then 2018 Albin/Isphording as responsible for the game plans. Isphording I think is having more influence as the QB play is improving and he can bring the QB more to the front.
Sure, we're a run first team, but our history of offensive performances in bowl games has been... well, offensive. We've twice put up really good offensive performances... last year and 2012 vs La Monroe. we came out slinging the ball all over the place. This will be like going against NIU's defense again. We will have to protect and Nathan Rourke is going to have to complete some throws to open up the running game later.
bshot44
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Posted: 12/13/2018 1:39 PM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
One more thought - do we become a bit more of a passing team next year with all the returning WR talent (minus Papi of course)? If so, what does that mean for Maxwell? I still feel he's the more natural passer, but no way we could bench Nathan after what he's been doing for us.
No chance. Not as long as Frank is head coach. They will always have a run-first mentality.

It's in his DNA
First two plays vs Akron; to White for 35, to White for 11. Now those were passes to back up the defense to open up the run which did go for 381. Coach Solich would likely acknowledge others these past seasons, 2017 Albin/Johnson/Isphording, then 2018 Albin/Isphording as responsible for the game plans. Isphording I think is having more influence as the QB play is improving and he can bring the QB more to the front.
Sure, we're a run first team, but our history of offensive performances in bowl games has been... well, offensive. We've twice put up really good offensive performances... last year and 2012 vs La Monroe. we came out slinging the ball all over the place. This will be like going against NIU's defense again. We will have to protect and Nathan Rourke is going to have to complete some throws to open up the running game later.
Since 2014 Ohio has had 10 games where they've attempted more passes than rushes. That five seasons and 64 games ...

So Ohio has thrown more than run in only 16% of their games.

And of those 10 games ... I counted 8 of them Ohio was playing from behind (2016: Tennessee, WMU, Troy; 2015: WMU, UB; 2014: UK, Marshall, BG)

No argument that the 2012 game vs ULM was an offensive onslaught ... but Ohio only threw the ball 23 times. They hit on some long balls and blew the game open, but Blankenship went for over 100 and 4 TDs and as a team they still ran the ball 38 times.

I don't think Frank & Co will ever convert to a pass-happy offense no matter how good of a QB they have back there. He's always going to want a team that controls the ground game.

That stubbornness I think cost them at NIU when it was apparent they weren't capable of running the ball, yet they refused to lean towards the pass. 32 carries for 46 yards. Yuck.

Yes, there have been game where the plan is to come out and throw early ... but ultimately that's so they can run.

Ohio will always be a run-oriented team is my point. You won't see them open things up like a Toledo or BG. At best, they'll be 50/50.
Buck.Cat
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Posted: 12/13/2018 6:26 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
While I agree that comparing the SEC to the MAC is not always a fair comparison, in the case of the original discussion, I think the Alabama example is a fair example.

The discussion was about how the best team in the conference can't be the best team without winning the conference title. I don't believe that to be true.

Not with Ohio this year.

Not with Alabama last year.

Neither won the conference, but I still believe them to be the best team in their respective conference.

In the original discussion, it's an unfair comparison. Even if they don't win their conference title, the consolation prize for Alabama is either a New Year's Six bowl game or playoff. For Ohio, it's always going to be a bowl game that no one can name. Alabama having access to those type of games makes this a silly leap.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/13/2018 6:45 PM
Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more
In the original discussion, it's an unfair comparison. Even if they don't win their conference title, the consolation prize for Alabama is either a New Year's Six bowl game or playoff. For Ohio, it's always going to be a bowl game that no one can name. Alabama having access to those type of games makes this a silly leap.
This is not quite accurate, under the current system, if OHIO finishes as the top ranked G5 team they go to a New Year's Day bowl game. Remember WMU in the Cotton, and NIU in the Orange? That could be OHIO one year in the future. Now, for OHIO to do this they have to win the MACC, but you seem to be implying that no matter how good the season we are relegated to what my wife calls a "loser bowl."

BTW, I read one story yesterday that said the B1G is now going to advocate for an eight team playoff. If true and if successful, I'm sure they'll be one slot reserved for the best G5 team, so in that scenario all FBS teams will have a theoretical shot at the national championship.
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
Last Edited: 12/13/2018 6:47:44 PM by OhioCatFan
mf279801
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Posted: 12/13/2018 8:54 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
This is not quite accurate, under the current system, if OHIO finishes as the top ranked G5 team they go to a New Year's Day bowl game.
Top ranked G5 champion. Had UCF lost their finale and still finished up ranked higher than Boise, it would have still been Boise going to the NY6 game.
bshot44
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:32 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
.... I'm sure they'll be one slot reserved for the best G5 team, so in that scenario all FBS teams will have a theoretical shot at the national championship.
I'm not so sure. Knowing how much they don't care and disrespect G5 teams ... they won't have automatic bid. Will be P5 champions and three at-larges.

Hope I'd be wrong. Would LOVE to see G5 playing for a true prize
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:39 AM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
This is not quite accurate, under the current system, if OHIO finishes as the top ranked G5 team they go to a New Year's Day bowl game.
Top ranked G5 champion. Had UCF lost their finale and still finished up ranked higher than Boise, it would have still been Boise going to the NY6 game.
Thanks for the clarification. It actually strengthens the other statement I made in conjunction with the one you quote that OHIO would need to win the MACC (as well as most likely be undefeated) to go to a NY6 bowl. But, my major point was that it is possible for OHIO to go to what my wife would call, "a real bowl."
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
Bcat2
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Posted: 12/14/2018 10:00 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
This is not quite accurate, under the current system, if OHIO finishes as the top ranked G5 team they go to a New Year's Day bowl game.
Top ranked G5 champion. Had UCF lost their finale and still finished up ranked higher than Boise, it would have still been Boise going to the NY6 game.
Thanks for the clarification. It actually strengthens the other statement I made in conjunction with the one you quote that OHIO would need to win the MACC (as well as most likely be undefeated) to go to a NY6 bowl. But, my major point was that it is possible for OHIO to go to what my wife would call, "a real bowl."
Probably the "small town" in me, but, the 2012 Independence Bowl was the most "real" experience I could want. The fairground feel, the inside pregame bash in the adjacent coliseum on a wet/cold day with a battle of the bands, a dance off between the cheer squads and a good meal was intimate and real. Getting to visit with the Branz family also helped. Good people from York, NE. Nothing more we need.
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/14/2018 10:39 AM
Well, because of family commitments I can never experience those things, bcat2, in any bowl that’s not played December 28th or later. If we ever get to a NY6 bowl I’ll be there, Good Lord willing.
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
Bcat2
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:36 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Well, because of family commitments I can never experience those things, bcat2, in any bowl that’s not played December 28th or later. If we ever get to a NY6 bowl I’ll be there, Good Lord willing.
Family is as "real" as it gets. Christmas time especially.
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK
bshot44
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Posted: 12/14/2018 10:11 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Well, because of family commitments I can never experience those things, bcat2, in any bowl that’s not played December 28th or later. If we ever get to a NY6 bowl I’ll be there, Good Lord willing.
I'll keep a spot warm for you .. or a beer cold for you. Your choice!
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/14/2018 10:37 PM

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Well, because of family commitments I can never experience those things, bcat2, in any bowl that’s not played December 28th or later. If we ever get to a NY6 bowl I’ll be there, Good Lord willing.


I'll keep a spot warm for you .. or a beer cold for you. Your choice! 

Can't I have both? winkcoolsmiley

I do appreciate your kind thoughts . . . 

 

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
Buck.Cat
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Posted: 12/15/2018 8:04 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
This is not quite accurate, under the current system, if OHIO finishes as the top ranked G5 team they go to a New Year's Day bowl game. Remember WMU in the Cotton, and NIU in the Orange? That could be OHIO one year in the future. Now, for OHIO to do this they have to win the MACC, but you seem to be implying that no matter how good the season we are relegated to what my wife calls a "loser bowl."

BTW, I read one story yesterday that said the B1G is now going to advocate for an eight team playoff. If true and if successful, I'm sure they'll be one slot reserved for the best G5 team, so in that scenario all FBS teams will have a theoretical shot at the national championship.
It's pretty clear in this scenario that OU has to go undefeated and win the conference championship to even be considered for a NY6 bowl game. Some significant wins against non conference opponents would need to occur as well.
Athens
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Posted: 12/16/2018 12:15 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
One more thought - do we become a bit more of a passing team next year with all the returning WR talent (minus Papi of course)? If so, what does that mean for Maxwell? I still feel he's the more natural passer, but no way we could bench Nathan after what he's been doing for us.
No chance. Not as long as Frank is head coach. They will always have a run-first mentality.

It's in his DNA
First two plays vs Akron; to White for 35, to White for 11. Now those were passes to back up the defense to open up the run which did go for 381. Coach Solich would likely acknowledge others these past seasons, 2017 Albin/Johnson/Isphording, then 2018 Albin/Isphording as responsible for the game plans. Isphording I think is having more influence as the QB play is improving and he can bring the QB more to the front.
Sure, we're a run first team, but our history of offensive performances in bowl games has been... well, offensive. We've twice put up really good offensive performances... last year and 2012 vs La Monroe. we came out slinging the ball all over the place. This will be like going against NIU's defense again. We will have to protect and Nathan Rourke is going to have to complete some throws to open up the running game later.
Since 2014 Ohio has had 10 games where they've attempted more passes than rushes. That five seasons and 64 games ...

So Ohio has thrown more than run in only 16% of their games.

And of those 10 games ... I counted 8 of them Ohio was playing from behind (2016: Tennessee, WMU, Troy; 2015: WMU, UB; 2014: UK, Marshall, BG)

No argument that the 2012 game vs ULM was an offensive onslaught ... but Ohio only threw the ball 23 times. They hit on some long balls and blew the game open, but Blankenship went for over 100 and 4 TDs and as a team they still ran the ball 38 times.

I don't think Frank & Co will ever convert to a pass-happy offense no matter how good of a QB they have back there. He's always going to want a team that controls the ground game.

That stubbornness I think cost them at NIU when it was apparent they weren't capable of running the ball, yet they refused to lean towards the pass. 32 carries for 46 yards. Yuck.

Yes, there have been game where the plan is to come out and throw early ... but ultimately that's so they can run.

Ohio will always be a run-oriented team is my point. You won't see them open things up like a Toledo or BG. At best, they'll be 50/50.
The run emphasis is about statistical probabilities and maximizing a big offensive line. Gashing run plays for 8 to 9 yards per carry to impose the Bobcat will on the opponent. Opposition would love to do the same I'm sure if they had the RBs or the OL for it. Its not run because we can't pass mentality of the Grobe/Knorr years as the receivers are pretty good too but we haven't needed them for bailing out the offense with big plays the last few years with a dominant run game in place.
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OhioStunter
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:37 PM
Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more
While I agree that comparing the SEC to the MAC is not always a fair comparison, in the case of the original discussion, I think the Alabama example is a fair example.

The discussion was about how the best team in the conference can't be the best team without winning the conference title. I don't believe that to be true.

Not with Ohio this year.

Not with Alabama last year.

Neither won the conference, but I still believe them to be the best team in their respective conference.

In the original discussion, it's an unfair comparison. Even if they don't win their conference title, the consolation prize for Alabama is either a New Year's Six bowl game or playoff. For Ohio, it's always going to be a bowl game that no one can name. Alabama having access to those type of games makes this a silly leap.
Let's reset on the original discussion. You asked:

"How is it possible to be the best team in the MAC when you do not win the MAC championship? Not to mention we did not even win the MAC East division title. I’m pretty sure Northern Illinois and Buffalo earned those distinctions."

We didn't discuss a consolation prize. We discussed how a team could be the best in its conference despite not winning its conference.

Despite a conference title, a bowl may take which team in the conference it deems the best. ESPN Power Rankings may rank a team who didn't win its conference title ahead of one who did. A non-title winning team may win the national championship. People may think that the team who won the conference is not the best team (even though that team "earned" its title fair and square).

I think it has been proven (in college FB and beyond) that the winners of conference titles are not always the best teams when it is all said and done.
bshot44
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Posted: 12/17/2018 6:06 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
Despite a conference title, a bowl may take which team in the conference it deems the best. ESPN Power Rankings may rank a team who didn't win its conference title ahead of one who did. A non-title winning team may win the national championship. People may think that the team who won the conference is not the best team (even though that team "earned" its title fair and square).

I think it has been proven (in college FB and beyond) that the winners of conference titles are not always the best teams when it is all said and done.
I think where you finish only plays a small role on what bowl you end up in.

MAC is guaranteed X spots ... so if you finish in the top X, you're definitely going to a bowl. But a lot of times the MAC ends up with more than X bowl eligible teams.

So it then becomes a giant puzzle. I think you're conference finish is trumped a lot by which bowls you've just recently been.

For instance, had Ohio won the MAC the year after a Camellia Bowl ... its highly doubtful they'd go again the very next year.

So it's tough to say Ohio is considered the league's best because they're Frisco bound. It's more because Ohio and others turn in the bowl rotation.
OhioStunter
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Posted: 12/18/2018 10:39 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Despite a conference title, a bowl may take which team in the conference it deems the best. ESPN Power Rankings may rank a team who didn't win its conference title ahead of one who did. A non-title winning team may win the national championship. People may think that the team who won the conference is not the best team (even though that team "earned" its title fair and square).

I think it has been proven (in college FB and beyond) that the winners of conference titles are not always the best teams when it is all said and done.
I think where you finish only plays a small role on what bowl you end up in.

MAC is guaranteed X spots ... so if you finish in the top X, you're definitely going to a bowl. But a lot of times the MAC ends up with more than X bowl eligible teams.

So it then becomes a giant puzzle. I think you're conference finish is trumped a lot by which bowls you've just recently been.

For instance, had Ohio won the MAC the year after a Camellia Bowl ... its highly doubtful they'd go again the very next year.

So it's tough to say Ohio is considered the league's best because they're Frisco bound. It's more because Ohio and others turn in the bowl rotation.
I personally am not basing my assessment on what bowl Ohio gets. I'm basing my assessment on watching MAC teams play and the stats. And my assessment is that Ohio was the best team in the MAC this year.
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Posted: 12/18/2018 10:52 AM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
Despite a conference title, a bowl may take which team in the conference it deems the best. ESPN Power Rankings may rank a team who didn't win its conference title ahead of one who did. A non-title winning team may win the national championship. People may think that the team who won the conference is not the best team (even though that team "earned" its title fair and square).

I think it has been proven (in college FB and beyond) that the winners of conference titles are not always the best teams when it is all said and done.
I think where you finish only plays a small role on what bowl you end up in.

MAC is guaranteed X spots ... so if you finish in the top X, you're definitely going to a bowl. But a lot of times the MAC ends up with more than X bowl eligible teams.

So it then becomes a giant puzzle. I think you're conference finish is trumped a lot by which bowls you've just recently been.

For instance, had Ohio won the MAC the year after a Camellia Bowl ... its highly doubtful they'd go again the very next year.

So it's tough to say Ohio is considered the league's best because they're Frisco bound. It's more because Ohio and others turn in the bowl rotation.
I personally am not basing my assessment on what bowl Ohio gets. I'm basing my assessment on watching MAC teams play and the stats. And my assessment is that Ohio was the best team in the MAC this year.
You'll get no argument from me there. I felt Ohio was the best team in the MAC the last two years. But they're their own worst enemy in terms of not capitalizing and winning a championship.
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Posted: 12/18/2018 1:04 PM
I am still pissed we are not in a NY6 Bowl!!!! Not sure how we could be snubbed with such a high ESPN rating and being the BEST Team in the MAC.
Last Edited: 12/18/2018 1:09:01 PM by BillyTheCat
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